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Unions Threaten Business

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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by lonegurkha
I felt a need to respond to your thread as I have been a union member in three different unions and an officer in one.
I couldn't agree more with your post. The unions I have been a member of have done nothing but take my money and provide me with nothing in return, unless you want to mention the betrayal of their principles.
The only people I have seen benefit from being in a union are the screw ups who are too incompetent to survive without having some one to protect them. The high level officers benefit by taking the money of the rank and file and living high while giving nothing in return. Unions can't get into any workplace where the management treats the worker well. I have worked in a place where the unions have tried to get in for decades, but can't, cause the people in charge treat the workers very well.
Once there was a good reason for unions, but for the most part that time is gone.Today all they do is cost us all too much money.I think that the public unions are the most useless of all. People working in the public sector get benefits that no one in the private sector recieve. I believe that this is one of the problems with the government today.


I too was a member of two unions - one private sector and 1 public sector - and all I saw was waste due to "work rules" that said,for example, they had to put 4 people on a job that only needed one or two people to accomplish. For example, several times my "job" was to sweep the floor of a large room no one used for my 8 hour shift. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one person could have swept the room in less than 30 minutes maybe once a week. But no, the union contract said ...

Multiply that by the number of union members. It is this kind of waste that must be stopped in order to balance the budgets.


Many of us have had similar WTF moments when belonging to unions. I was a Teamster while putting myself through college. My dues did nothing other than keep union thugs from beating me up while cleaning s***hole factories at night. Nobody wanted my job. Nobody was vying for my job. There was no competition. There were no enforced work rules or safety measures except for those that my very decent employer provided. My only union contact was paying my dues that kept me and my employer from being strong-armed.

This past summer I watched a union road crew of 4 watch a computerized truck paint the yellow lines on a road newly paved by whatever they call that shovel ready scam the admin. puked out. The same road already paid for and that should have been paved by our county road commission 3 times over in the past decade. It was incredible. It was like the old comic of a road crew leaning on shovels with one guy doing the work. The sign that cost "God knows what" is still there touting that someone paved what should have been paved ten years ago. I think this all fell under the "NJDOT". You've all witnessed this crap, New Jersey isn't the only state run by the "Sopranos".

Wake up union members, you're being shaken down too. It's just that this is the first time most of you have felt it.

This from April of 2010:

15 Mayors Who Must Shred The Budget To Save Their Bankrupt Cities

My company laid off 10% of our work force and cut the remaining employees salaries by 20% in January of 2009. And it could have been much worse but believe it or not there are good caring people running businesses in this country. They're not all Wall Street bankster scum. These austerity measures are not uncommon for people working in the private sector I assure you. Did union employees think they would totally escape this recession? Contribute to your health care? How horrible! And despite the MSM screwing with the numbers we're not in recovery but we are on the verge of a double dip. Come back this August and tell me I was wrong about this. You can ream me out right here on ATS. I hope for all our sakes I'm wrong but I doubt it. Wake up!




posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Unions are not perfect. Like the poster above I remember my father constantly complaining about his construction union - local 190. But to get rid of Unions and remove collective bargaining rights sets an extremely dangerous precedent. They are necessary in a free democracy.

edit on 13-3-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Is "Business" far more important than the worker who gives the "Business" life?
Business = The Owner, the CEO, the stock holder.
"Workers" always wanting their own rights, safe conditions, pensions, benefits and decent wages all cut into the natural GOP given right for this tier of individuals to make excessive profits.
What a shame.

yogasavestheday.wordpress.com...

With all the politicking against collective bargaining in states like Wisconsin and Ohio, it feels like another page from the Republican playbook. Using “budgeting” as cover, they covertly strip low- and middle-income people of the rights they already earned. One has nothing to do with the other, especially when the unions are making the financial concessions the Republican governed are asking for. But the governors don’t actually want the money. They want you (us) to lose the right to bargain, to debate, to have a dialog where everyone’s needs are represented.

edit on 13-3-2011 by rusethorcain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by rusethorcain
 


I regret only being able to star a post once. You just put it all in a nutshell.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia
Unfortunately, democracy is messy sometimes...


But, it can't look like this, can it?

Wisconsin Senate Passes Union Reform Bill


www.thenewamerican.com...


Since recalls are perfectly legitimate, if recall efforts are successful, how will opinions and defenses be altered?


Absolutely legitimate and democratic. But, if they are unsuccessful? What then? More protests? More recalls?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by Garfee
No, the taxpayers do not pay them. The Taxpayers pay the government which in turn pay public servants.


You are joking, right?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:26 PM
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The gigs up for the unions and they know it. This is long over due to be dealt with. Every one of them have their hands all over our politicians, and the decisions their making reguarding our libertys. I hope I live to see the day when the unions are put out of buisness.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


(this is a repost froma previous thread but it does have a direct tie in to the comments you made in this post as seen below.)




Besides, there are already plenty of worker protection laws on the books to keep any of that from happening.

And yes, many of those laws came about because of unions - back in the past when unions really were a good thing for their members. Before union practices made labor costs so high that many of their member's jobs were shipped overseas and governments couldn't balance their budgets..





First off I must admit that I am a member of a union, I think for obvious reasons I will leave which one up to your imagination...

I would just like to inform you that OSHA though a good in theory organization if you will is really not what most people think of it. In my line of work I deal with hazards that are life threatening every day, so do my non-union counterparts, and OSHA does define some loose regulations for our field of work, but that’s really it. When I’m safe away from working conditions that are "less than" favorable my non-union brothers are out there working putting their life on the line for what? You guessed it the all mighty dollar there parent companies for the most part could care less about the dangers around them as long as there work comes in on time and under budget. I personally took part in an Osha training class a few weeks ago (osha 10) This class was narrowed down for my particular work field we were shown studies that showed work related death and injuries for our combined work field and then broken down into union and non union sides, if I recall correctly for every injury sustained by the union members in my line of work there was something like 2.2 injuries for the non union side. The difference for on the job deaths was lower it was something like 1.362 if I remember correctly though I could be wrong. In my line of work Osha sets its standards as the min for work place safety and as such many non union companies in my line of work stick to those standards (though I must state that there are non union companies that do go well beyond those standards) where as my union has taken those standards and raised them well above the min to provide me and my coworkers a relatively safe and healthy work environment. Also the union provides me and my co-workers with a higher salary and better benifits

but listen to my blather on... what I’m getting at is Osha is kind of like your local law enforcement agency they are there to protect us, but they cannot be everywhere at once, when they do find an offence they are more than happy to throw a ticket at it, and that may stop the unsafe work conditions for a while but just like with anything time heals all wounds if you will and soon that company will be back to putting its labor force in harm’s way again trying to chase down that dollar. Of course you could counter with but that holds the same for your union company too, and yes it does the difference is, and this is key to my argument, Osha is just one layer of protection that I am given. If I feel that I am being placed in an unsafe, unfair and other wise poor working condition/place I have the right and privilege of contacting my local union and or OSHA and filing a complaint, and my union will back me if I am in the right about said complaint. What does this mean to the company that I am working for? Well first off they will have to deal with any OSHA penalties, and secondly they will have to deal with and union penalties, not limited monetary punishment but up to and including the loss of their work force (losing union status). I am proud of my union and its members are we all honest are we incorruptible? No but if you can give me one collective of human society that is, I will gladly admit that i am wrong and be on my way.


I hope that if nothing else this post has made you think about your opinions of unions, and the fairness of judging all unions as one collective whole, It was not my goal to change your mind but to give you something to think about.

P.S. i have many friends and family who work union and non in many different fields, some love their union and some hate their union. this post was in no way supposed to validate any union, it was supposed to show semi factual (due to my lack of remembering the statistics) information regarding the union and non union workers in my trade. thank you for your time

good day/night depending on your location in this universe

crimsongod


So, like my post above hopefully made clear is that although yes there are "worker" "safety rules" in place, for the most part they are minor and really only protect the company (imo) from possible law suites from injured and or killed workers. For example before i was a member of my union and before i was in my current trade, i worked in a job where it was common to be told to do something that was not only unsafe but against Osha and other regulations, knowing full well that if you were caught or injured doing so, the company would not back you, and in fact in most cases chastise you for the actions you were "ordered" to take in the first place.

Like i said before are all unions full of good people, no they are not, but neither is the human race. is it better to judge all as one? or every individual/union/company or whathave you on there own merrits. God only knows that i do not want to be judge as a collective whole of the human race, to be lumped in with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, the BTK, or any of the many other horrible people that have came before during and will come after my time.

So i ask you how is it that you are willing to judge all unions based off of your dealings, with i beleive you said two unions, out of the hundreds of unions and locals the the united states alone? when im sure (assumed) that you would not want to be judged based on the action of the few people i have and interactions with and have studied about.

thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe

crimson god.

p.s. thank you for listining to my rambles i hope i have caused no brain bleeds today.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
The lockdown went into effect MARCH 1st.



Live updates from the capitol (March 1)


– March 1, 2011

~5:25PM: Some of the Dems in the Assembly just addressed the protesters in the Rotunda, after having come out during the speech to tell them that they could hear them chanting!

~5:00PM: Walker is done speaking and a press conference is now taking place. We have heard that only twenty (20!) members of the actual public were able to get in for the speech itself. Protesters are chanting in the Rotunda, amidst a heavy police presence.
www.defendwisconsin.org...

"...protesters in the Rotunda..."
"Protesters are chanting in the Rotunda..."

And, there are pics on Google images showing protesters inside the Capitol building on March 1st. You can go see for yourself.


edit on 13-3-2011 by WTFover because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Second, the situation with public employees and their bargaining does not actually impact the taxpayer. They negotiate for a slice of the money that's already been set aside for faculty and staff pay.


I do see your point that at the level where the teachers in a particular school district are working with the Superintendent, the Superintendent only has a certain amount of money to work with.

When the government decides to spend more money (say, on teachers pay, benefits etc,) it does eventually come out of the tax payers pocket.

As I said before, I support unions, private sector unions. I am unable to support public workers unions in their current form. There is just too much chance for corruption which will eventually have to be picked up by the tax payer.

Thanks for the replies.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


My union is screwing me. I make 55k for doing mindless labor and the union is extorting the company for millions of dollars worth of extras.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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are you kidding me? what do these unions do for it's members? how about provide job security for the time you work there? my father and grandfather are both members of the teamsters union, and many many times i can remember both of them having kept their jobs during cuts because of the union contracts. seems the only people who are anti-union are corporate/business owners who think they shouldn't have to treat their employees fair. get rid of the unions and see where your rights as an employee go.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover

Originally posted by Garfee
No, the taxpayers do not pay them. The Taxpayers pay the government which in turn pay public servants.


You are joking, right?



No, I'm not. But then you knew that didn't you and just wanted to be a smart ass? When was the last time you gave your hard earned money directly to your local fire or police station?

The point being made is that taxes are paid to government which are in turn paid as salary to public servants. These employees are neither your slaves or your own personal employee.

If they have a grievance they should be allowed to raise it with their employer. Because taxpayers fund their employers who (are supposed to) act on their behalf, the community should be active in supporting them, not denying them fair bargaining on wages and working conditions.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by Hardstepah
are you kidding me? what do these unions do for it's members? how about provide job security for the time you work there? my father and grandfather are both members of the teamsters union, and many many times i can remember both of them having kept their jobs during cuts because of the union contracts. seems the only people who are anti-union are corporate/business owners who think they shouldn't have to treat their employees fair. get rid of the unions and see where your rights as an employee go.


Don't forget the financial investment firms that also have an interest in seeing stock values raise for their investors. Even they can take money off the table of the average worker so that those who "play the markets" can make their tidy windfalls now and again by scraping every last cent they can AWAY from the workers and into their coffers.

This is one of the biggest scams going.
This is again HOW the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Our sneaky politicians make it possible and then get thanked by the corporate owners with perks and stocks and promises and even totally financing their political campaigns.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Niccawhois
reply to post by centurion1211
 


My union is screwing me. I make 55k for doing mindless labor and the union is extorting the company for millions of dollars worth of extras.


Well that is too bad. Perhaps you should elect another union official to represent you.
Still it is no argument against Unions designed to protect the rights, pay, safety and well being of the lowly worker. And in most companies the "lowly" worker is the bottom rung of the company and the most expendable. If you did not have your Union you would probably be asked to do the same mindless work for longer hours and less money. Don't mistake that your Union bargained to get you the best pay, or at least better pay than was planned for your type of work in that company.

This argument would be like giving up eating something vital and healthy like fish, because you are afraid of getting ciguatera or even mercury poisoning. It is rare and treatable. The health risks of NOT eating fish far outweigh any dangers of getting ciguatera from eating it.
en.wikipedia.org...

You have a problem with the Union then fix it - do not deliver your workers into the mouth of the beast.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Yes I agree there should be laws brought in in order to stop people boycotting companies. How are these poor corporations supposed to make a big fat profit if this kind of thing happens.


As long as people keep giving them money...it CAPITALISM!! FREE CONSUMER CHOICE!!

If people choose not to give them money, it's ILLEGAL! ARREST THEM!!!



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Ahem, THIS IS EXACTLY WHY PUBLIC SERVICE PROFESSIONS SHOULD NOT UNIONIZE!!!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout. But if this is what happens when there are issues with public service unions, then it is a clear example of why they shouldn't be unionized in the first place. If they want to hold the public hostage for their own ends, then it is time to abolish said public unions.

I, for one, am disgusted by their continued behaviour.


i'm disgusted with your ignorance of history...go read a book about WHY the unions were formed. the abuses of the wealthy and powerful are well-documented.


Skippy, there'sd big difference between public service unions and unions that developed due to inhumane work conditions. I suggest a little reading before you go about flinging insults.



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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Kids, lets put things in perspective.
First, it's not the end of the world for public sector unions. No one is going to die unless the threats BY the unions or union supporters go through.
Second, they have only lost the right to re-bargain the fact that they now have to pay in for their retirement and medical care.
They have not lost the right to bargain for their salaries.

Okay?

This hooplah is because they have to pay into their retirement and healthcare.

They have protested, threatened, and have been generally obnoxious because they have to pay for their retirement and healthcare.

That is all.

You drama queens who feel that corporate America has squashed the working mans rights for corporate greed are shedding crocodile tears.

Again, they now have to pay into their own retirement and chip in for their own healthcare.

*oh the horror, the horror*



posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Hardstepah
are you kidding me?
.... get rid of the unions and see where your rights as an employee go.


I would guess all those union members would end up working like the rest of us.

Somehow we muddle though ...




posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by Hardstepah
are you kidding me?
.... get rid of the unions and see where your rights as an employee go.


I would guess all those union members would end up working like the rest of us.

Somehow we muddle though ...



So we union members don't work for our employers? Being AFTRA/SAG, I take great pride in doing a great job and putting in time and effort for the people that pay my salary as do other union folks above and below the line. We [the union] also have a stake in the product that comes from our employers projects. Ultimately it benefits both of our success if we do a good job and we do.

Your Hateful Limbaugh/Beck conservative stance has once again let your ideology get in the way of your common sense by painting union working men and women as somehow below those that don't have union representation.
BTW your Gods Rush and Beck are a members of AFTRA and enjoys the benifits of union membership all the while trashing working men and women in unions at every opportunity.

moronia.us...

There is a word for that.



As a side note we are seeing an unprecedented number of applications for IATSE, SAG and AFTRA and also the Teamsters; everyone involved in making movies and TV.


edit on 14-3-2011 by whaaa because: code ivi




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