Easy!!! (Or should I say easier said than done!)

Stop these unfounded wars. Get our people out of there.

- Iraq (Why are we still there???? Oh, it's the Stargate. I forgot.)

- Afghanistan (Why are we there???? Oh, It's the poppy seeds. I fogot about that too.)

-War on Drugs (Why fight a battle you can't win? Allow pot and tax. Look at CA, and a few other states. This was sucessfully done with alcohol.)

Curtail or eliminate any new projects with the military.

Redirect our interest towards ourselves, rather than a global economy. He need to take care of our house first, before we can assit others. Even then, do we really want to assist others? Some are not salvagable.

Abolish all "Black budget spending" (Trillions saved right there.)

All proceeds from Poppy seeds needs to be given to the public. (More trillions!)

Stop supporting Isreal. 50% of the battle will be won right there. We can not continne to be used by others.

Get all US banks to lend money instead of just hoarding it - waiting for interest rates to rise. I see this everyday...the hoarding must stop!

Fed Reserve - They gotta go! Chuck em!

Loose the electorial system. We dont vote for president. We vote for idiots at the electorial college, who vote for preseident. They don't have to vote the way the majority wants. They can do as they please. This is not a democracy in the way we all believe it to be. We have been fooled for too long.

-E2

IMO, the answer is really quite simple. The USA as well as every industrialized and/or emerging economy should, for it's own protection, adopt legislation mandating that products be manufactured in the same nation in which they are to be sold, with the exception of raw materials. This one step eliminates the need to get into an import/export taxing war with other nations while protecting the economic base of each country. Wouldn't need all the so called "free trade" deals either.

Much the same way that Toyota and others have come and built assembly plants here in the USA to build cars intended to be sold here in the USA, this is the model we should follow. By adopting this policy, we also insure that the price of labor and/or the lack of environmental regulations in one nation are not utilized as a tool to bring down the economy of another. For any products that for one reason or another can't be made at home, I would support import taxes so high, (including restrictions against passing the tax costs on to consumers) that the tax itself would give corporations the incentive to find a way to produce them here. I don't care if we had to tax them 1000%, (kinda like the 1000% + profits they're currently making off their outsourced products) if that's what it takes!

Wasn't it Henry Ford who promoted the idea that workers should be able to afford to buy the products they make? Well, I'd like to see you try selling a pair of NIKE shoes for $200 to one of the workers who make them in Indonesia. Today, multi-national corporations are utilizing the difference in regulations and labor cost of emerging nations to fuel their never ending greed and they will continue to do so until they are stopped. I only hope it's not too late to stop them.

Originally posted by Flatfish
IMO, the answer is really quite simple. The USA as well as every industrialized and/or emerging economy should, for it's own protection, adopt legislation mandating that products be manufactured in the same nation in which they are to be sold, with the exception of raw materials.

Im sorry but the answer is NOT simple, because if it was it would have been solved long ago and wed all live in protectionist heaven.

I didnt read further into your post because you seem to think, in your opinion, that returning to the dark ages is the simple answer every other dummy just hasnt thought of or is too stupid to grasp.

Seriously man, and not to be condescending but im sure this will come off as such; pick up an econ 101 book and realize just how catastrophic your plan would be if enacted, which it most surely would not be, as it would be a surefire way to absolutely reverse and destroy all the progress weve made as a species since the dark ages.

And just for fun. i might ask: what moral rule would you say justifies myself not selling my used XBOX games on ebay to someone in the States, who live just a few short kms from me? Would you oppose my selling of this game to him in a voluntary and peaceful way? If so, what means should be employed in order to stop us from doing so?

Originally posted by Neo_Serf

Originally posted by Flatfish
IMO, the answer is really quite simple. The USA as well as every industrialized and/or emerging economy should, for it's own protection, adopt legislation mandating that products be manufactured in the same nation in which they are to be sold, with the exception of raw materials.

Im sorry but the answer is NOT simple, because if it was it would have been solved long ago and wed all live in protectionist heaven.

I didnt read further into your post because you seem to think, in your opinion, that returning to the dark ages is the simple answer every other dummy just hasnt thought of or is too stupid to grasp.

Seriously man, and not to be condescending but im sure this will come off as such; pick up an econ 101 book and realize just how catastrophic your plan would be if enacted, which it most surely would not be, as it would be a surefire way to absolutely reverse and destroy all the progress weve made as a species since the dark ages.

And just for fun. i might ask: what moral rule would you say justifies myself not selling my used XBOX games on ebay to someone in the States, who live just a few short kms from me? Would you oppose my selling of this game to him in a voluntary and peaceful way? If so, what means should be employed in order to stop us from doing so?

I'm not sure what's so complicated about it and I doubt it would take us back to the "dark ages" either. If we don't protect our own economic base, then who does? Corporations? In case you hadn't noticed, corporations take an oath, so to speak, to remain loyal to the almighty profit margin and not to any specific country.

I'm not saying that we totally eliminate importing or exporting all products, hell I'm a retired longshoreman, my entire career was spent in that business. I'm just saying that we scrutinize the process a lot more closely. If a company wants to sell a product in a foreign country, why can't they build it right there where they're going to sell it? Is it because they won't be able to screw the living hell out of the consumer by selling it in an established economy for 1000 times what it cost to make it in an emerging one? Greed cannot be left unchecked!

With respect to your used XBOX games, to be quite honest I hadn't given that much thought to used product sales but I'm sure that something could be figured out that would accommodate sales, while at the same time, put safeguards in place to insure that "Used Product Sales" weren't being used as a "Front" for evading trade laws.

The only thing I know for sure is that if we want or expect different results, then we are going to have to try a different approach.

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by Neo_Serf

Originally posted by Flatfish
IMO, the answer is really quite simple. The USA as well as every industrialized and/or emerging economy should, for it's own protection, adopt legislation mandating that products be manufactured in the same nation in which they are to be sold, with the exception of raw materials.

Im sorry but the answer is NOT simple, because if it was it would have been solved long ago and wed all live in protectionist heaven.

I didnt read further into your post because you seem to think, in your opinion, that returning to the dark ages is the simple answer every other dummy just hasnt thought of or is too stupid to grasp.

Seriously man, and not to be condescending but im sure this will come off as such; pick up an econ 101 book and realize just how catastrophic your plan would be if enacted, which it most surely would not be, as it would be a surefire way to absolutely reverse and destroy all the progress weve made as a species since the dark ages.

And just for fun. i might ask: what moral rule would you say justifies myself not selling my used XBOX games on ebay to someone in the States, who live just a few short kms from me? Would you oppose my selling of this game to him in a voluntary and peaceful way? If so, what means should be employed in order to stop us from doing so?

I'm not sure what's so complicated about it and I doubt it would take us back to the "dark ages" either. If we don't protect our own economic base, then who does? Corporations? In case you hadn't noticed, corporations take an oath, so to speak, to remain loyal to the almighty profit margin and not to any specific country.

I'm not saying that we totally eliminate importing or exporting all products, hell I'm a retired longshoreman, my entire career was spent in that business. I'm just saying that we scrutinize the process a lot more closely. If a company wants to sell a product in a foreign country, why can't they build it right there where they're going to sell it? Is it because they won't be able to screw the living hell out of the consumer by selling it in an established economy for 1000 times what it cost to make it in an emerging one? Greed cannot be left unchecked!

With respect to your used XBOX games, to be quite honest I hadn't given that much thought to used product sales but I'm sure that something could be figured out that would accommodate sales, while at the same time, put safeguards in place to insure that "Used Product Sales" weren't being used as a "Front" for evading trade laws.

The only thing I know for sure is that if we want or expect different results, then we are going to have to try a different approach.

would love to respond but i gotta run. later.

I'm not sure what's so complicated about it and I doubt it would take us back to the "dark ages" either. If we don't protect our own economic base, then who does? Corporations? In case you hadn't noticed, corporations take an oath, so to speak, to remain loyal to the almighty profit margin and not to any specific country.

It might be useful to you to define the nature and spawn point of the corporation. Corporations, by their very nature, are sanctioned and enabled to exist by the *state*. I know its easy and accepted to associate the modern corporation with capitalism, but the two terms are in reality polar opposites.

'Corporations' are legal fictions given writ by the state, and under that umbrella of protectionism they flourish and dominate. 'Corporations' are legal fictions that are granted special rights and immunities that are not afforded to the the average person or business in a statist system by the state itself. In exchange for legal immunity from losses potentially suffered by the people who make up the corp, the state grants, by fiat, special rights to favored corporations who pay for such privileges through the millions and billions of lobbiest dollars.

Corporatism = Fascism = Mercantilism. As soon as the State is allowed the right to determine who is taxed and to what extent, a feeding frenzy of powerful interests is assured, as to not buy a politician or two, under those circumstances, it to yield the field. Thus the large monopolistic concerns that you rightly rail against are indeed creations of the State, and thus no amount of State intervention will correct the problem, in the same way that we do not look to the foxes to guard the henhouse.

Corporations dominate because the State allows them to do so. Without legal and financial immunity granted via violence, 'corporations' as you know them simply would not exist.

I'm not saying that we totally eliminate importing or exporting all products, hell I'm a retired longshoreman, my entire career was spent in that business. I'm just saying that we scrutinize the process a lot more closely. If a company wants to sell a product in a foreign country, why can't they build it right there where they're going to sell it? Is it because they won't be able to screw the living hell out of the consumer by selling it in an established economy for 1000 times what it cost to make it in an emerging one? Greed cannot be left unchecked!

You did earlier state that all trade between nations should be eliminated or seriously curtailed.

Again, I ask you, what business is it of yours about who or why I sell my own property to?

If selling and processing raw materials is so superior to exporting them, then there should be no issue here as the rightful owners of said raw materials will prefer to have them processed locally.

In other words, if you yourself fell a tree and machine it into a usable and sell able product, would you want me, or any other person, telling you what you should or should not do with your rightfully owned product?

Do I have the right to determine the usage of your justly earned surplus? Do you claim the right to determine the usage of mine?

With respect to your used XBOX games, to be quite honest I hadn't given that much thought to used product sales but I'm sure that something could be figured out that would accommodate sales, while at the same time, put safeguards in place to insure that "Used Product Sales" weren't being used as a "Front" for evading trade laws.

New/used is totally irrelevant in the context of ownership. There is literally no distinction that is meaningful. If my house is 'new' 10 years ago, and is worth $100, 000, and is 'used' in 20 years and is worth $200, 000, does the value of my house change at all when we consider how much ive 'used' it? Of course not! The value of my house is determined almost totally independently of my usage of it. Thus in this case, unlike a car or a video game, my usage of my property is a non factor, and may indeed be a positive, when considering its sell value.

Thus the fact that you hadnt considered my scenario implies that you havent considered the meaning of 'value', and its implications, at all. I respect your admission of ignorance on the subject, but I must wonder how you have draw such strong and rigid conclusions about how humans should trade and interact without taking a few moments to consider the real world implications of what youre proposing.

The only thing I know for sure is that if we want or expect different results, then we are going to have to try a different approach.

This is for sure all that we know.