Did Jesus Really Make A Sacrifice?

Originally posted by bogomil
Scripture proving scripture?

And for what purpose; to establish an imaginary copyright on knowledge, ethics, social systems and 'personal mind-space' all conceptualized and practised better somewhere else?

Hello my good friend!

Scripture isn't proving scripture. A real life event proved the scripture of the past. What we have is the story about it.

Of course as generations pass from the event, people will undoubtedly forget and even doubt the story. Thus, we have new prophecies to look forward to which, when proven, will validate the stories of the previous prophecies being fulfilled.

Did we really have a revolution in America in 1776? I don't believe it! All we have are stories. I say we have a revolution for real!

Watch my friend, the prophecies written for this age are being fulfilled right in front of your eyes. Keep watching..

With Love,

Your Brother

Since the thread discussion has gone in another direction, I have to assume that the issue of the sacrifice of Jesus has been adequately addressed and resolved...?

The historic event...

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." 1 Corinthians 15:1-8

The theological explanation...

"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool." Hebrews 10:11-13

Jesus own conclusion...

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

I believe this.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by ACTS 2:38

 

What rubbish you preach

"Free Will of Christianity"

edit on 16-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)

This man Christopher Hitchens is a fool and a charlatan, he will lead and is leading many down the wide and open path to destruction. That choice to choose, is a choice between living a healthy morally right life style that always convicts the heart when a thought or action is unhealthy for the soul and to others. Or a life style of irresponsible actions and thoughts without conscience of guilt and recompense. That's what believing in God and having faith is all about. You still have your freedom, but now with a twist where you have a conscience that will be your guide, and you will prefer to do right rather than wrong, that is the difference. If we had leaders, doctors, all peoples of all walks of life, husbands, wives, teenagers, all with this type of awareness of conscience, what a better world we would have. And there would most likely not have the need for lawyers, now wouldn't that be nice.

edit on 16-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Well, obviously not everyone is going to agree with each other. I don't believe that he made a sacrifice and as long as you have an open mind when reading that article, you will also see that it was not a sacrifice

reply to post by IAMIAM


You wrote:

["A real life event proved the scripture of the past."]

You mean like in the vedas, Dhammapada, the eddas of the north, Popul Vuh, Mahamudra, the Koran, The Iliad, the book of Mormon, ....where real life events prove them all.

What's YOUR 'real life event', and how is that 'proved'?

It is possible though, that you meant it in another way, which I didn't see.

Quote: ["Of course as generations pass from the event, people will undoubtedly forget and even doubt the story. Thus, we have new prophecies to look forward to which, when proven, will validate the stories of the previous prophecies being fulfilled."]

Prophecies usually carry more 'proof'-value, AFTER they have turned out to be right.

Quote: ["Did we really have a revolution in America in 1776? I don't believe it! All we have are stories. I say we have a revolution for real!"]

I have a great deal of sympathy for your person and your application of your own religious ideals. Not so about your logic and epistemology. You sound almost like a christian in this effort of creating weird systematic methodology and inductive 'categories'.

PS Boddhisatvas also 'sacrifice' themselves. In a much more extensive 'compassion' frame.

reply to post by troubleshooter


Contrary to you, I don't believe in circular argumentation as a method. Consequently I don't believe in the resulting conclusions.

There's no original sin, so there's no need of any sacrifice.

If we had any ham, we could make 'ham and eggs', if we had any eggs.

reply to post by hawaii50th


You appear to intensify your missionary efforts on the line of:

Uniform zombification is freedom, because when we know the absolutes of a branch of ideological fascism, there's only black and white to choose between, and that choice shouldn't be a problem for any true believer.

The alleged 'sacrifice' of Jesus is just part of the great zombification-circular-scheme based on imaginary absolutes.

Some say it with flowers, some say hallelujah and some sieg heil. These options have always been a part of any religion (though some maybe say aum instead of hallelujah) and the way non-believers approach any religion is depending on how the religion presents itself in deed and doctrine.

And that's not mentioning the rational parts.

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Well, obviously not everyone is going to agree with each other. I don't believe that he made a sacrifice and as long as you have an open mind when reading that article, you will also see that it was not a sacrifice

Um, well, it seems I have already come down into the "yes, it was a sacrifice" camp, and I don't think reading an article to the contrary will sway me. Which article, exactly? If the torture and death of Jesus was NOT a sacrifice, we have no hope whatever. Apart from His sacrifice, what do you hang your hope on, anyway??

OK, I found the article, but could not get past the [trademarked!] name of a certain Christian holiday. The skeptics are, as usual, brilliant and funny, but they don't understand squat. This is highly offensive to me. As I have stated before, skeptics and scoffers will have their reward, and it need not be so. The gift is free, except for a bit of humbling...

Originally posted by bogomil
PS Boddhisatvas also 'sacrifice' themselves. In a much more extensive 'compassion' frame.

Absolutely my friend. There are many paths that require personal sacrifice for the benefit of all humanity. I never, ever, said Christ had exclusive rights to the truth.

Remember, Christ was the redeemer of the Jews. He came for the people of Israel. They rejected him and will suffer until they receive him.

His truth is universal and spoken to many tribes through many wisemen of those tribes.

It is simply to love one another.

We are all children of God. His light shines on us all and his love has been expressed in many ways. Christ was the most perfect example because he actually gave his life for absolutely no crime against man or God.

I have posted a thread which was pulled concerning a Lakota Prophecy that will come to pass. It is the return of the sacred pipe, ie the healing usage of Marijuana. Due to the subject of the thread, it was removed. I can imagine the staff here caught flak for it, so it was probably wise to remove it.

Either way, the point is, many prophecies of many people will come to pass. It is proof that there is a God, that we are ALL his children, and that we have lost our way.

The prophecies in the Bible will be the most striking as a testament that the Law Christ brought to the Jews and the world, his truth, his way, and his life, are valid.

I can offer no proof. This all comes through epiphany.

That is why I say, if you cannot believe what I say, just watch. The world events will prove what I say, what has been said by the prophets, and Man will be redeemed.

Love one another.

It truly is that simple.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Like I said, people with an open mind will have no problem understanding it. For some reason you can't accept the fact that Easter was in fact a Pagan festival. The Christians then took it, probably as a way to get more people believing in their faith, whilst keeping with the traditions of their previous religion

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

You appear to intensify your missionary efforts on the line of:

Uniform zombification is freedom, because when we know the absolutes of a branch of ideological fascism, there's only black and white to choose between, and that choice shouldn't be a problem for any true believer.

The alleged 'sacrifice' of Jesus is just part of the great zombification-circular-scheme based on imaginary absolutes.

Some say it with flowers, some say hallelujah and some sieg heil. These options have always been a part of any religion (though some maybe say aum instead of hallelujah) and the way non-believers approach any religion is depending on how the religion presents itself in deed and doctrine.

And that's not mentioning the rational parts.

You sure like using the term "zombie" you got some kind of fetish for zombies or what?
I don't expect much Europeans as yourself to understand something that comes straight to the point.
Rational? You don't understand the term rational, otherwise you'd get it.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Good luck with that last post.

Anticipating the coming ownage.

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Like I said, people with an open mind will have no problem understanding it. For some reason you can't accept the fact that Easter was in fact a Pagan festival. The Christians then took it, probably as a way to get more people believing in their faith, whilst keeping with the traditions of their previous religion

Constantine was the first Roman emperor to support Christianity, and became a Christian. He wanted to do away with all of their pagan traditions and practices. These pagan practices and traditions ended up getting incorporated into the church, which eventually became the Roman Catholic Church. Even the calendar was incorporated, therefore is not an accurate calendar that we go by today.
Easter, Halloween, Christmas and so forth are all of pagan origin celebrations.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Good luck with that last post.

Anticipating the coming ownage.

That's okay, I'm use to the insanity and all the sheeple.

One thing though, is I keep getting attacked by the Skyline ad, lol. I wonder if anyone else is getting this annoying and ridicules ad coming down over their screens?

reply to post by hawaii50th


Yup, all sheeples visit ATS so they can read the mainstream majority view.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Yup, all sheeples visit ATS so they can read the mainstream majority view.

Couldn't have said it any better.

GENESIS 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

i think the thread is playing a bit of a Devil's advocate by questioning God's truth.

the more expereince i get in life the more i realize the bible is true.

reply to post by generalzod


Well, if you believe that talking snakes are real, then there really is no hope for you

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Like I said, people with an open mind will have no problem understanding it. For some reason you can't accept the fact that Easter was in fact a Pagan festival. The Christians then took it, probably as a way to get more people believing in their faith, whilst keeping with the traditions of their previous religion

Believe me, I know full well the pagan backgrounds of Easter and Christmas. I don't "do" those two holidays. My Christianity is on another level, but on this issue we can both agree.