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Planing to scavenge Weapons and Ammo after the SHTF? Might want to read this first...

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posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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Would it really surprise anyone here to learn a very common practice of all militaries is to booby-trap weapons and ammo for other's to find??? been going on for a good many years, maybe centuries even???
look at these examples from this book

(Source: “Malice Aforethought – A History of Bobby Traps from World War One to Vietnam”, Ian Jones, p 225, 226)

In Malaya there is evidence that this practice was actively pursued. In Operation Purvey, some 10,000 rounds of .303 were doctored with high explosive. On firing, either from a rifle or a Bren light machine-gun, such a cartridge would detonate, burst the barrel, and kill or severely injure the firer. There was some concern about the legality of such actions, but General Templer, the GOC, dismissed these.

A further 50,000 rounds were ordered which were filled with a thermite incendiary composition. These when fired would simply melt and seal the breaches of the enemy weapons. The advantage of these was that if the enemy discovered the doctored rounds and managed to get them back into the British supply system they would not kill the British troops. The SAS also doctored weapons such as the Lee Enfield rifles, which were left for the communist terrorists (CT) to find.

It wasn't only the SAS that were involved in such activities. Roy Follows joined the Malaya Police and spent much time fighting the CT. In one incident he recorded that he was summoned to the Officer Commanding Special Branch and given a bandolier of .303 ammunition. He looked at it and on being asked what it was stated that it was the normal ball ammunition. He was then told that in fact the rounds had been doctored and the propellant, a low explosive, had been replaced with high explosive. Follows was then told to leave this ammunition where it was probable that the CT were likely to find it. He recorded that, several weeks after he had left the ammunition, there was an ambush by the terrorists in which it was reported that, as they opened fire, there were a number of breach explosions, which resulted in the ambush being abandoned…


In Vietnam under code names like "Italian Red" "Italian Green" "Bolo Beans" and others.

started with pulling bullets of ammo and replacing the powder with a full case of Bullseye pistol powder.(Can you say BOOM?)
This was successful enough that the military had special ammo filled with high explosives manufactured on Guam and Taiwan.

Booby trapped ammo included 7.62x39, mortar shells fused to explode as soon as they were dropped down the tube, and hand grenades fused to explode as soon as the arming lever was released.

The practice was for Special Forces, LRRP, SEAL and SOG units to "salt" ammo caches that were found, or to simply leave a few rounds near a trail where they'd be found.
The programs were so successful, the military issued special orders to American troops to NOT use any enemy ammo or munitions.
In order to allow use of enemy caliber ammo by South Vietnamese troops, the US had special runs of 7.62x39 ammo made in Taiwan.

There have been several cases in the US where booby trapped ammunition has been left at shooting ranges.
For this reason, NEVER shoot ammunition you find.
It may be improperly loaded, or even deliberately booby trapped.

the people who do this are so good at it you cannot tell just by looking!

this list goes on and on and on and on and on....
so to all those folks over the years who have told me to stick with common current mill spec rounds
you might want to rethink any plans you have about scavenging weapons and ammo... I think it's much safer to learn to reload your own




posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


Well dos it surprise any one that the government would do those things?
It would not surprise me if the government is reading our posts for ideas of thing to do to people.



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Inwouldnt expect it to be a very likely event in a SHTF scenario.

For one we aren't exactly at war with each other. I wouldn't have anything to gain by baiting you with ammo and then blowing it all to kingdom come.

Another thing is that it's pretty clear when something has been dropped or abandoned versus something that is like a complete cache sittig as an oasis.

I'm sure some lunatics would booby trap things. As it is some lunatics can poison your burger at the diner. We take risks everyday. I doubt finding a box of ammo inthe ground is going to result in my being blown up. Sure, it could happen. I just really doubt it will.

And if it does? What would I care, I just got blown up.


 
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posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Still you got to ask yourself what are the odds?
1 in 10
1 in a 100
1 in 10,000
what odds are you willing to accecpt when betting your life?

the truth is when these ops are carried out there not gonna tell us the when and where's
lets say this Union mess were to blow up into an armed conflict... that's a potential SHTF and the Army would have all the time in the world to prepare some surprises
edit on 11-3-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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the government hides so much and think that they can fool us forever...



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by theibbsta
 


You can bet on.
is when it comes down to a governments survival there is no trick to dirty or to nasty to pull...
history journals are filled to overflowing with atrocities committed in the name of maintaining civil order...
just look at what's going on in the middle east right now... the right and wrongs of such actions will be judged by the victor not us pee on little guys

Now that my friend is something you can bank on!



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Are we assuming the government is going to be blowing us up?

I was working under the assumption there is no government, at least not one cohesive enough to plan and implement guerrilla tactics against people just trying to survive.

From the POV of government I could see planning out these cache bomb attacks in areas where known enemey cells are operating.

But just you and me and everybody else out trying to get by? Why would we be wasting time and resources trying to blow up random people who may happen to come across a booby trap?



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


you make a good point but I'm not just talking about our government... whatever that might be...

I'm thinking that in a real SHTF there will be pockets, groups, who will band together and reform some form of order... they might be a thousand miles away or right in your backyard... and what's to stop them from placing a few nasty surprises here and there???

who's to say it couldn't be just one guy out there doing it? Rig up an old rifle to go boom when someone less careful picks it up....

then you got to remember how many of us Old Vets are out there right now who were trained to do just that...


White supremacists behind booby trap attacks on cops
edit on 11-3-2011 by DaddyBare because: to add link



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 
it is better to leave it be than to be... shall i say blown to smithereens, for yes i use to work with one such person he would talk and brag about such things as to what he would do to keep he site safe, and if he is just one think of all the others that stock pile ammo food and other needed things, is that gas can a gas can or a mine? is that empty looking camp site really empty? yes folks there are real Rambo's out there, just waiting for the day they can play. i do hope they are the first to go, for if they live through it... well you the city dweller, are just sitting ducks. yes he has done nothing wrong but just thinking, and it is my word against his , he has a FFL for full auto M60 BAR and the M2, and he is ex SEALS. his thinking "if i don't know ya, your a threat, and the only good threat is a dead one" so if you see a cameo type RV, 5th wheel or a hut, just stay clear and move along. and look for snares.



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


years and years ago my unit did a little training with those EOD guys...
let me tell ya, those fellers are freaking nuts!!!!

they used to booby trap everything, your pack your coke can your boots, anything that was left unattended for a minute became suspect... man they had us so jumpy there at the end we didn't take a single step without checking twice and that's no ole war story



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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Very interesting, I hadn't heard of this. I had heard of incidental boobytraps where say the body of a dead soldier would be rigged with a grenade to go off when the body was moved, that type of thing.
The odds of running into what you describe are much better if you are dealing with special forces and few Rambo types.

Funny how the cops have singled out white supremacists groups for the booby trap attacks on Police in Hemet, CA.
And the story is posted on the Grio.
Their headline or was that what the police had told them?
It could be anyone, you don't have to be ex-military or white to make booby traps..
edit on 11-3-2011 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


I think the odds of running into a Rambo want-a-be have greatly increased thanks in large part to the Internet...
the CIA cook book improvised munitions... turned into free down loadable content... mostly coveted by teen-aged boys...

of course in this 21st century we got away from trip lines and use micro-switches and tiny little motion detectors...
or as sited above just use a bullet puller and pack the shell case full of powder... the effects are just as lethal

Edit to add I dint mean to pick on White supremacists per say...
just wanted to point out booby traps happen right now right here in this country... so it's not just a history lesson
edit on 11-3-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Are we assuming the government is going to be blowing us up?

I was working under the assumption there is no government, at least not one cohesive enough to plan and implement guerrilla tactics against people just trying to survive.

From the POV of government I could see planning out these cache bomb attacks in areas where known enemey cells are operating.

But just you and me and everybody else out trying to get by? Why would we be wasting time and resources trying to blow up random people who may happen to come across a booby trap?


You'd be quite deluded if you thinkthe bobmint is packing it in. They ARE packing it away for later. Why do you think 60 yo cancer survivors spend millions of their own dollars for a chintzy seat in congress? What can a senator get that amultimillionaire cant? Safety and security at taxpayer expense deep underground is what. Why else spnd 50million of your own money for a 160k job?
It's gonna be all initiated by gobmint one way or another to thin the heard topside just enough to make the serfs compliant to do the bidding of the new royalty with all the taxpayer supplied goodies and survivng technology.
Learn to think like they do, and it all opens up like a highway before you



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 
yep at least your not alone, did they ever rig your smokes? coffee pot that smoked?



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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I guess I'll stick with a bow and arrow or sling shot. Let's see them booby trap that.



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 02:32 PM
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I prefer to load my own rounds anyway. It's cheaper and gives me something to do. I gotta give it to em' though, that's effective. I really don't plan on taking on my own military or police. Just living the slow life since I retired from the army.



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by DaddyBare
 


S&F

I remember hearing about a M14/M1A "kaboom" years ago, and I just found the website with the story. At the time, several forums were talking about it, because the damage was so severe on a very strong military receiver/barrel. Seemed more damage than pistol powder or blocked barrel could produce, IMO.

Some relayed that they had info about some 7.62 NATO mfg in Germany being spiked with explosive, others had domestic ideas....



"A guy named Al ------ (see original article) said that some ammunition has been 'SPIKED' with C4 to injure patriots planning to defend this country. He said some teams had actually found ammo caches and spiked this ammo.


Link (the gunzone. com)

ETA: I just read the Fulton Armory analysis for the 1st time and they say structural failure. I can't imagine receiver and barrel going that catastrophically in one shot. But, that's just my humble opinion.... I think bad ammo like OP said, is around.
edit on 11-3-2011 by 1SawSomeThings because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by AnimositisominA
 


Awesome a fellow reloader...
okay folks don't take my word for it...
Ask AnimositisominA just how easy/ and cheap it would be to pull the bullet from a mill spec round and replace the powder with something a bit more potent???



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by 1SawSomeThings
 


I remember that story... was back in 2001 or 2002...
I remember seeing photos of the spent casings... clearly way over pressured... blown primers split cases...
something any novice reloader can spot a mile away... yeah screw the Army and their reports... that ammo was to blame...



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by AnimositisominA
 


Awesome a fellow reloader...
okay folks don't take my word for it...
Ask AnimositisominA just how easy/ and cheap it would be to pull the bullet from a mill spec round and replace the powder with something a bit more potent???


It wouldnt be difficult or costly really at all.

I have a friend who reloads his own ammo,
and Ive watched him numerous times.

So many times that I could do it on my own, if I had the right tools.
Really, it would be rather easy.



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