It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 988.htm
<< 985  986  987    989  990  991 >>

log in


posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:24 AM

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Wertwog

What would have caused a prompt criticality down in the UC?

It follows the scenario of there being three elements to the R3 blast. The first is a flash/pulse explosion a fraction of a second before the R3 blast. The second is produced by this flash/pulse which ignites the hydrogen in both the UC and R3. This explosion of hydrogen in the UC produces immense amounts of pressure within the structure causing either prompt criticality, or even super prompt criticality for the third part. Whatever fuel ignited in the UC was under the kind of pressure that I suspect youd get in a bomb, and since they would be using this complex for refining fuel, it could have been a small nuclear explosion. Im just quessing there though obviously.

Your theory supposes there is another source of fuel in the UC that is under pressure. It would seem more likely that the corium burned through the RPV, which we know was in meltdown at that time, burned through the secondary containment and came into contact with water either there or in the UC. The walls of the containment or UC would have provided enough pressurization to send the blast vertical. It satisfies Occam's Razor to use an existing fuel source rather than invent a new hypothetical one.

I believe the first pulse was a gamma burst a fraction of a second before the large explosion. If it had been at night we might have seen a very large afterglow.

Large amounts of highly radioactive water in the basement might support the idea that the corium is there, has been accumulating there for some time, and the need for the larger amounts of water than #1 & 2, which apparently are still in the secondary containment (although I wouldn't be too confident of that).

You are giving too much credit to the power of hydrogen to produce the power of explosion you are seeking. To cause the damage all over the site it had to be nuclear. Hydrogen just doesn't have the blast force required to 'powder concrete'. Blow roofs off, yes, reinforced concrete walls to powder? No. Only nuke can do that. But it would have had to have been small portion of the mass. If the whole corium mass had gone up there would be nothing left of the site except rubble. It also accounts for the characteristic mushroom shape we saw.

Either way, it doesn't appear likely that the cause was the SFP going promply critical.
edit on 28-7-2011 by Wertwog because: fiddling

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:36 AM
Here are the latest readings from Tepco.

I don't see any raises except a blip a way back.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:40 AM
reply to post by rbrtj

I'd like to see this from June 14 and July 7 to see if the small pulses correlate to increases. If so this would support the gamma burst hypothesis.
edit on 28-7-2011 by Wertwog because: goofy Tepco... those silly boyz.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by rbrtj

I'd like to see this from June 14 and July 7 to see if the small pulses correlate to increases. If so this would support the gamma burst hypothesis.
edit on 28-7-2011 by Wertwog because: goofy Tepco... those silly boyz.

I'll see what I can do.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 01:12 AM
reply to post by Wertwog

The simple box graph does not come with preseding pages in the index, I did come up with this to show the missing information and wonder if that is what your refferring to?
Thought it strange how what we want is gone? II also noted the last graph is all that was on the page.
I trimmed off the edges, but left the length to show it only took up 1/2 a page.
I included the link so you can look at the graphs at your leisure.
Hope this helped.

edit on 28-7-2011 by rbrtj because: my page grab did not work as planned

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 02:39 AM
reply to post by rbrtj

Thanks rbrtj! I checked all of these and I'm struck by how very little the readings are fluctuating from reading time to reading time, but also day to day. I checked for 2 days prior to June 14 and 2 days after and the readings are almost identical from day to day. I then checked for 2 days prior to July 7 and after July 7 and found the same result... almost identical readings. Not only that, they were very close to the June 14 readings.

I would think that due to wind and weather there would be more variation in the readings! Why are they so consistent? Also, the placement of the meters is very odd. I should have paid more attention to this way back but my mind was on what was happening in the reactors.

Also, they are only measuring 4 times per day??? WTH? They take their readings at 9:00am, 2:00pm, 9:00pm and 11:50pm. There are no readings between 11:50pm and 9:00am. The bursts on June 14 occurred at 1:55 am and perhaps the 9:00am reading did not pick them up since it was much later. The bursts on July 7th occurred at 8:00pm on the youTube I previously posted and again 9:13pm on the video below. Now you'd think that if these were gamma bursts that the 8:00pm ones would have registered on the 9:00pm reading and perhaps enough ionizing rads would still be around for the 11:50pm reading.

So either these are not gamma bursts or the readings Tepco are taking are not trustworthy. What do y'all think?

Small bursts starting at :40. A large burst at :47.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 02:47 AM
reply to post by rbrtj

Good question. Hmmm... more cover ups, and what ever did happen to that barge Zorgon liked so much?

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 04:34 AM

310 children transferred to schools outside Fukushima city

Among the 310 children, many were transferred by their parents or guardians to schools in areas of relatives or acquaintances residing outside Fukushima Prefecture. Many mothers accompanied the children, while the fathers remained in Fukushima city, education board officials said. As of Friday, 274 primary and 36 middle school children had been transferred, but their parents or guardians kept their registered city of residence as Fukushima.

At kindergartens in Fukushima, 137 children, about 3.7 percent of the total number of kindergartners in the city, were relocated as a result of the March 11 disaster and other reasons from April through this month.

In Koriyama, Fukushima Prefecture, 553 primary and middle school students had transferred to schools outside the city as of June 7." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">source

Learning lessons from Chernobyl to Fukushima

The sites of the world's nuclear accidents -- Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima -- cast a pall far beyond national boundaries.

An irradiated 2,850-square-meter zone around Chernobyl's single reactor plant, which exploded in 1986 showering much of Europe in cesium and other toxins, still remains almost devoid of people.

For more than a decade, Professor Tim Mousseau has been rummaging around inside that zone, researching the genetic impact of radiation. Biodiversity and the numbers of insects and spiders have shrunk, he says, and the bird population shows evidence of genetic defects.

Now the biological scientist, who is associate vice president for research at the University of South Carolina in the United States, is bringing his sample bags to Fukushima." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">source

Evacuees Outside Designated Areas Should Be Compensated If Warranted

Japan's chief government spokesman Yukio Edano said Thursday that people who voluntarily evacuated from areas outside the officially designated evacuation zone around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant should be compensated if a clear case for their evacuation can be established.


New Roadmap, Better Decontamination System at Fukushima

A Toshiba official says the system can process a maximum of 1200 tons of contaminated water a day and can operate five time longer than the current Avera-Kurion system before the tower filters need replacing. The system is being transported to the Fukushima Dai-1 site in three stages, with the fist part arriving on 26 July. A TEPCO official added that the company is now considering whether to implement the system to work in parallel with the current decontamination system, as a replacement system, or to use it as a back-up system. He added that it is expected to be ready for operation in early August.

Today is the 138 Day since all this began,
still scary but at the moment my view of this is not sooooo apocalyptic anymore!

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 05:48 AM
Video on the BBC

British soldiers claim illness after nuclear blast tests

Almost 60 years after Britain's nuclear tests in the Pacific Ocean, the veterans who took part in them are still fighting for compensation.

They say they have suffered years of ill-health and even birth defects in their children as a result of exposure to the tests.

The Ministry of Defence denies the claims.

Sorry just had to put this out there.

Wow I am just stunned. They had no protection whatsoever. They were there to witness these tests and have suffered with ill health since. And the pilot who had to fly THROUGH a radioactive cloud as a bomb exploded to test it - my god what a brave, brave man and they just sent him home afterwards. Surely the MOD must have had SOME idea of what danger it was putting its men in?

I know that bombs and power stations are somewhat different, but Fuku is releasing radiation with no end in sight. The MOD are denying any links between testing and the veterns illnesses (the rest of the world it seems disagrees saying there is a link) but if the veterns are successful in proving a link how will that leave public perceptions on how they view radiation? Are we going to see more reports on testing and is it going to be used to skew reporting on Fuku?

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Wertwog

You are giving too much credit to the power of hydrogen to produce the power of explosion you are seeking. To cause the damage all over the site it had to be nuclear. Hydrogen just doesn't have the blast force required to 'powder concrete'. Blow roofs off, yes, reinforced concrete walls to powder? No. Only nuke can do that. ubble. It also accounts for the characteristic mushroom shape we saw.

You misunderstand what Im proposing. It wasn't the hydrogen part of the blast that powdered the concrete. It was the prompt critical, or probably as you suggest, a prompt supercritical event occurring in the UC. The hydrogen part of the blast provided the pressure that produced enough implosive force to set off a reaction to fuel in the UC. If plutonium is being refined in the UC, the fuel source is that.

So in essence I am saying that there is a chance there was a nuclear explosion within the UC that vectored through R3 and other sites nearby, ie 1/2 SY, CSFP etc. The following GIF from Wiki shows an implosion bomb. Picture this instead as the UC, the outer explosion hydrogen, the inner fuel in the UC.

In fission weapons, a mass of fissile material (enriched uranium or plutonium) is assembled into a supercritical mass—the amount of material needed to start an exponentially growing nuclear chain reaction—either by shooting one piece of sub-critical material into another (the "gun" method) or by compressing a sub-critical sphere of material using chemical explosives to many times its original density (the "implosion" method). The latter approach is considered more sophisticated than the former and only the latter approach can be used if the fissile material is plutonium. The amount of energy released by fission bombs can range from the equivalent of less than a ton of TNT upwards of 500,000 tons (500 kilotons) of TNT.

The more I consider this, the more it makes sense. Originally I waffled between the original two theories, steam explosion and prompt criticality in the SFP, but neither satisfied all parameters. If there had been a steam explosion that emanated from the RPV, or prompt criticality in the SFP, the service floor of R3 would be a) open to the fuel left in the RPV, and/or b) cluttered with fuel remnants from below, producing higher levels of radiation than we see in that area. It also would have left lots of fuel around the base of R3 and to the southeast where the cloud drifted, which we havent seen.

If instead the blast was below ground and exited through the tunnel system out R3, this would result in greater concentrations of radioactive dust, and less of larger pieces of radioactive rubble, as we saw. And the dust from the primary blast exit out R3 went out to sea, while the dust from the secondary explosions in the switching yard did not produce the vertical lift that the R3 cloud did, and therefore the dust settled closer to home, the switching yard, CSFP and hillslope behind.
edit on 28-7-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 10:35 AM
reply to post by Wertwog

You were wondering if poolium had got somewhere it shouldn't have?

I think this was of the main contibutors to the big tokyo radiation spike. Inside of the building has thermal damage too, I'd guess there's more in there.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 10:48 AM
reply to post by rbrtj

Im beginning to not trust anything produced by Tepco, which means we really dont know anything about the state of Fukushima 1 or 2 as the only data source is Tepco. Classic catch 22. Or as the old saying goes "knowing what we know, we really know nothing".

However, there are enough clues provided by the photographs smuggled out of Fuku1 to suggest more than Tepco states. At least as far as damage is concerned. For radiation counts all we can do is figure that peaks are probably hidden from sight. The average counts are probably close to accurate as there are too many people with dosimeters walking around to hide this. But the peaks they can shave.

If Fuku1 is being used for refining fuel, then it must be considered a military installation, which changes how information is dealt with. Its not a private entity at that point, and control and command comes from elsewhere.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 10:54 AM
reply to post by GhostR1der

I doubt now that the melted material in R4 that we have been calling poolarium is in fact melted fuel. This would have from day one been producing massive amounts of radiation that would have been seen instantly on thermal photos. Its possible that the photos were manipulated, but even then the daily rad levels produced would be much higher in this area than what is occurring. this kind of fuel source couldnt be hidden.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 11:22 AM
reply to post by zworld

But look where it flows to.. the sink hole like, collapsed looking area to the right. Its on the right part of the building as well. If any remains it's probably underground by now. As it aerosolised, Japan tokyo got hammered. Large increase over background (90cpm peak from 20cpm) with a standard gieger counter must mean horrific amounts of hot particles.

In all videos i've seen, they never stop the measurement car where that side of the building is visible from. They don't get any closer than a building between R4 if stationary (outside of the car), always a quick drive past..
Only people I've seen remotely near there are the usual nuclear bait; firefighters. The heroes of chernobyl and fukushima.

This lead me to believe radiation was much higher around R4/3 courtyard than we are being told.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 11:57 AM
Q, R, WW and others. Below is a post from page 963 explaining why I considered the possibility of the building I call the 1/2 SY having been its own explosion. However, I state in the beginning of this that the debris field is primarily from the R3 part of the blast. I no longer consider this to be true, explained below the quote.

Originally posted by zworld
J&C, SFA and other members of the ATS Fukushima Forensics team, please critique the following. I concur with the analysis concerning the tower sections of roof getting blown off from the R3 blast, or being hit by R3 debris, and causing much of the debris field behind the mystery building (MB), but not with the assessment that structural design caused some buildings to blow out and not others. Here is my reasoning;

Transmission building (TB). As photos below show the TB was constructed from the same material as many of the outbuildings, thin sheets of metal. Structurally much of the plant is of this weak design, whether metal or concrete. Note in the first photo that the sheets are stockpiled to the left and around the bend. To me this suggests tsunami damage.

An idea of the run up height of the tsunami. Note that this building is also metal.

This is a tsunami debris pileup on the southside of TB. This gives an idea of the force that hit the TB and CSFP.

This shows tsunami damage to walls in small buildings on the other side of turbine buildings away from blast damage.

Knowing how weak these structures are it is hard to explain why the walls below survived intact.

Yet a building with no windows blew out completely down to its bottom floor, but only on the bascksides away from the blast. Photo 10

And the end result shows the windowless wall closest to 3 having been blown outwards with a debris field in front of it. The damage to the east walls of the TB to the left of the MB appear to be tsunami damage with the same bottom pull out as photo above showing tsunami effect.

So the fact that weak metal walled structures closer to R3 were left intact, or show tsunami damage but not blast damage, and the MB ended up like this

leads me to conclude that the mystery as to what happened to the MB remains.

ON EDIT: the pics above come from or the original helicopter overflight from March 15 or

This photo shows a pattern to the debris field that suggests that it is primarily from the 1/2 SY. Note the line that the right arrow points to begins right at the hole in the roof of the 1/2 SY, and the lack of a debris field below and to the right of the bottom arrow/line.

The left arrow in this photo shows the protected section of roof of the 1/2 SY also blowing out. this would not have happened had the damage been from the R3 blast. The right arrow shows the debris below the east wall of the 1/2 SY.

The following photo shows damage to the north walls. Again, this damage wouldnt have come from the R3 part of the blast.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:09 PM

Originally posted by GhostR1der

This lead me to believe radiation was much higher around R4/3 courtyard than we are being told.

I agree, but I think its the whole south part of the plant that they are hiding, with the radiation being emitted from an unknown source. For the poolarium to be melted fuel, it would have to have come from the R4 SFP, and the R4 SFP is still there and doing what looks to be fine (all things considered that is).

I wish we had data or pics for the R4 blast, cause I think it's the mystery that would tie the UC in without a doubt.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 01:46 PM
reply to post by YarlanZey

Did the earthquake trigger the power to ark and set of a problem that was not known below ground.
The last place anyone wants to be sent in a nuclear plant is below ground, so they send in the "help" who purposely know nothing and can see nothing but the task at hand.
In reports at our own plants along flood ways it has taken an inspector to bring the problem of leaking up to management.
What are the effects of water on outside high voltage to under ground transformers....Kaaaboom positive meets negative and you got a very bright flash and in a closed space with other air born flammables and u got a big ole bomb
Folks these underground transformers are the size of trailer houses full of a light cooling oil.
Below is a picture of one generator that would feed the transformers that knock the power down to the right voltage. Is it possible that the blown manholes are from the individual transformers going pop in a chain reaction when the the water over topped them?
Another thing that could happen is the generator it self can short out and be an ignitable.
Now also remember at the plant we have 2 separate independent power sources, 1 going out and one coming in that is independent of the plant.
Meaning if the plants shorted out below and the juice from outside stays on and hits the short you got a very big kaboom with lots of sparks.
Electricity is like water it takes the path of least of resistance.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 02:02 PM
reply to post by zworld

I think there is a lot of underground space that goes way down.
Let's note where they do not drive there machinery, to keep from falling into a "sink hole".
Watch for the words sink hole in any reports.
I think that storing the waste under these plants is a good idea and we have to make sure they build new plants on spots that meet this criteria.

Homeland Security drops nuclear material detection program

A Homeland Security Department official said Tuesday the agency has canceled a $1.2 billion program to install nuclear radiation detectors at U.S. ports of ...

Fukushima Teacher Muzzled on Radiation Risks for School Children

After the March 11 earthquake and tsunami devastated the Tohoku region in Japan's northeast, the central government evacuated as many as 470000 residents, including 160000 because of radiation risks from the crippled Dai-Ichi nuclear plant.

Japan cattle shipment halt expands amid radiation scare
Last week Japan halted shipments of beef cattle from Fukushima prefecture, also located in the tsunami-hit northeast of Japan and host to a crippled nuclear plant operated by Tokyo Electric Power Co that is still leaking radiation.

Japan Faces Post-Fukushima Power Struggle
IEEE Spectrum
(TEPCO) lost control of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant and then misled the public about the danger. Since then, however, Japan's fifth prime minister in as many years has been fending off resignation calls by challenging Japan's nuclear

Compensation Battle Over Nuke Tests
Sky News
Many of the 1011 claimants say their health has suffered as a result of being exposed to the radiation from the nuclear bombs. Patrick Burns from Coventry was seventeen at the time of the tests. He was present when three hydrogen bombs were detonated ...
See all stories on this topic »

edit on 28-7-2011 by rbrtj because: added info without a new reply

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 03:39 PM

Originally posted by GhostR1der
reply to post by Wertwog

You were wondering if poolium had got somewhere it shouldn't have?

I think this was of the main contibutors to the big tokyo radiation spike. Inside of the building has thermal damage too, I'd guess there's more in there.

That's a hella lot of mass to be coming from exactly the right spot. Ghost it is R4, when was it taken, around the 20th of March? We did see one or two photos not long after we spotted this (I think this was pulled from one of the flyovers) where this mass was completely gone - perhaps edited out. But most of the Tepco shots hardly ever show this side of the building.

If that's not poolium, then I don't know what that stuff is. Whatever it is melted and hardened and has the black color you would expect from corium shell. It would be VERY hot however and there isn't much heat distortion in the image although it's low rez image so it might just be hard to see. It would be incredibly radioactive. Probably instant death for several meters around the thing.

I think it's likely it is poolium and the radiation levels at the site are being doctored, as Z says says they could be editing editing out the spikes. I know from looking at all the daily rad reports rbtji provided they are very very very consistent - too consistent to account for weather and wind.

posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 04:48 PM


Dang! A lot to catch up with - you folks are truly amazing!!

Been in "God's Country" since July 17th. No internet, cell phone or TV...

See the world is just a F'ed up as when I left.

Just a reminder...Japan is the USA's second largest lender besides China. On March 11, 2011 this bank went away. China has total control now. Isn't that comforting.

See the TEPCO live web cam and still peculiar stuff going on and no "cover" over unit 1. Everything still looks like hell.

Had some substantial aftershocks.

A big nasty mystery going on at Daini.

No progress on the water contamination.

Whew...the word "futile" comes to mind...

Anyhow folks - STUPENDOUS job keeping up on everything!! And via my travels the past two one has a clue...

- Purple Chive

new topics

top topics

<< 985  986  987    989  990  991 >>

log in