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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 959.htm
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posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
But then again, maybe they are right and we have indeed blown the dangers of Fukushima Daiichi far out of proportions to the actual danger presented.


The question to me is, considering that we have the potential worst disaster of all time bubbling away, with so many obvious unanswered questions, so much incompetency at work, so many people depending on institutions that dont care, how can someone not be concerned. I dont get it.




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by BKGump
 


These are some excellent materials!

Much gratitude to you good sir!

Now where did I put my torch and flasks of acid?

Oh yeah, I left them here. They've been put to good use.

1000 nerd points to anyone who knows what the previous two statements refer to.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by BKGump
Attention Silverlok and SFA437:
I found a few pages you might find interesting on BWR accident simulation software and BWR H2 explosions.
www.ues-egypt.com...
canteach.candu.org...
www.iasmirt.org...
Hope you folks can make use of them.
BKGump


That second link is priceless! TYVM for digging that out of the net brother- it explains in VERY clear and concise language what happened to these reactors, especially #3.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
But then again, maybe they are right and we have indeed blown the dangers of Fukushima Daiichi far out of proportions to the actual danger presented.


The question to me is, considering that we have the potential worst disaster of all time bubbling away, with so many obvious unanswered questions, so much incompetency at work, so many people depending on institutions that dont care, how can someone not be concerned. I dont get it.


Two words my brother: Normalcy bias.

It is the bane of every predictive analyst in the world and it affects everyone. Takes hard work to overcome it and realize sometimes there really is a paradigm shift happening in front of you. Case in point (personal)

Back in 2005 the biggest threat was the VBIED in Iraq. Convoys started maintaining 100m bubbles around themselves and one of my recommendations was for ECM to counter cell phone initiated IEDs, IR panels to detonate garage door opener types and chain booms to trip pressure plate types because haji would see the VBIED was ineffective- they got lit up like Christmas trees if you got within 100m. Took 2 years before these things were implemented because suicide car bombs were how haji hit convoys, despite haji switching tactics. This goes back to VietNam where the French and US were fighting WWII and Korea all over again, because that is how wars are fought.

We here break that bias and push ourselves to think and probe and go beyond the boundaries and 20 years from now this thread and others like it will be shown to be prescient beyond our belief.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by BKGump
Attention Silverlok and SFA437:
I found a few pages you might find interesting on BWR accident simulation software and BWR H2 explosions.
www.ues-egypt.com...
canteach.candu.org...
www.iasmirt.org...
Hope you folks can make use of them.
BKGump


Maybe I'm missing something , but I have been checking out the company in the first link, "Universal Education Systems", and I find them highly suspect. Virtually nothing from google and the info on their web site is less than impressive. Most of their "products and "services" web pages have ZERO, NOTHING! Some of the ones that do appear to me to have come out of a box of Cracker Jacks. Maybe I'm wrong, but it should be looked at.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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Haha - From my Google Alert on this sorry situation I got this
Tepco lost a drone aircraft on the top of building No 2

Where are the images taken of previous fly-bys. Thats what I want to know.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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vimeo.com... Found this video. Fukushima Daiichi Radioactive Seawater Model April 5



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Plant status report Daiichi

What we need are more of these reports. Althought this one is from the 14th June there are still some very interesting bits and pieces in it such as the amount the water in the tunnels have risen since the previous day. You can be sure I am on the case for more uptodate reports.

Only 4 pages so wont take too long to skim through.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Wertwog
I think that unless more evidence shows up you're chasing a ghost.
When chasing ghosts, who ya gonna call!
But thanks, good luck is what it usually takes.

Originally posted by StonedSheep
have we been distracted into looking at the CSFP and unit 4 while the current danger is #1?
If you're inferring that nuke industry shills are planting the concerns about CSFP, thats not happening. In fact, the exact opposite is occurring. Fukushima is a ten headed beast. To ignore any of it's heads is not a good idea, especially the biggest head of all. Yet data concerning the CSFP is disappearing or already gone. So far gone that the findings of the recent IAEA Ministerial Conference on Nuclear Safety at no time even mention the CSFP, and are now using a plant diagram from the 70s which doesnt even include the CSFP, (instead of the one posted on page 944 this thread). Considering how fast data on the CSFP is disappearing their current thinking appears to be out of sight out of mind. Which again begs the question, why? It may not be that the pool itself is the problem. Earlier posts on this and other forums discussed a possible tunnel system under Fuku. Im beginning to think there might be one, connecting 2,3,4 and the CSFP. Just thinking out loud.
www-pub.iaea.org...


edit on 23-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)

those rods (cspfr) would have and could have and almost certainly were moved almost immediately ...we have the barge traffic and the robot machines and the lovely blue casks...


Hang on a minute, are you trying to say you think the SEVERAL THOUSAND (sorry no time to go back through and check the exact figure but it was a LOT) fuel rod assemblies as stated by TEPCO and other s (IAEA etc...) to have been in the CSFP builiding/2 x pools, have been secretly moved from the facility, amidst all of what WE now know about the status of the very nearby reactors, esp. 3 & 4, throughout the period after March 11th, and the local radiation levels since the blasts/meltdowns/melt-throughs, and the ongoing aftershocks and EQs, AND bearing in mind the lkelyhood that the equipment in that building would have many bugs and failures (cranes?, cooling?, and in the wake of the power outages and temporary fixes for that which they told us of?

I don't buy that. For one thing, knowing TEPCO as we do, I think they would have made a big deal about the 'good news' angle on this, and we would have likely seen daily coverage, shots of trucks and workers using the crane in the CSFP, it would have been a great way to obscure other issues for a while. Plus, where would they move it to?

Within the same PDF of theirs, that I posted a few pages back, there was mention of their new 'temporay' storage facility, to be built in 2012, but that appeared to be for dry casks only, so all those water cooled assemblies would need removing from the pools, and packing, then moving, that's a major task, and would take a long time, I can't see that increasing manpower would neccessarily speed things up much beyond the limits of the machinery (one crane etc...)

I could almost buy them shifting some of the (again I think the figures are in the thousands) 'dry casks', and they do have a seperate 'dry7 cask' storage facility elsewhere on the site I believe, and may likely have had 'dry casks' within the Common Spent Fuel Pool facility within the processing areas...but removing all that water cooled spent fuel, some of which would presumably still be in it's 'cooling off perdiod - 19 months I think I read...

Are you thinking opf the same CSFP?

Gotta dash, back later



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Some really good images of different parts of the plant both inside and outside. Most of these are not long pdfs so can be whizzed trhough in no time. I have placed notes against each one to say what it shows and often a date too.

used Google search
site:tepco.co.jp images

spraying schedule of dust inhibitor (map of complex)

turbine building unit 4 sea discharge point diagram

readings survey map of daiichi 23Apr overlaid on detailed site diagram

use of robots (images and diagrams) (april 28)

installation of support pillars building-4 1 page 3 images 2 actually look real

progress report 17june with useful images 48 pages

cooling progress status report (pic of unit 4 spent fuel pool) (groundwater seepage model) (measuring radiation inside employee areas)

alternative_plan_injecting_water 16jun (not that interesting really)

how_they_will_cover_building1_plan *** useful detail ***

1-page_progress_status 17may

location_map_of_trenches_pipelines 02jun (page6 maybe bad)

'official' daiichi_summary with numbers of fuel rods etc

Finally we have had this before but it is useful to have it occasionally in case we need to check the weather.
fukushima weather next 5 days



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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T-Hawk Drone crashes into reactor unit 2 whilst sampling airborne nuclides.




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by curioustype
 


Still haven't found the figure from the time of the accident, but I think from memory it was c. 6,500 fuel assemblies, certainly in the TEPCO pdf reviewing spent fuel c. Nov 2010 I posted @ p.245, there were nearly 6,300 of a total CSFP pool/building capacity of just over 6,800.

The same pdf detailed their dry casks, processing area, and truck loading bay. It looks like a large 18 wheeler artic' low-loader, and the casks look pretty large and heavy [*pics show 1 x cask fills one low-loader]. I don't know how many assemblies can pack into each cask, but it must be quite a task. We would surely have seen/heard of at least one truck a day coming out of that garage, the door directly opposite R4, and even if they loaded several trucks per day, I think it would take months to empty that pool, probably over 6 months, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it take years.

Sorry, I'm posting from a mobile, hence lack of better links and pastes.

Ps hope to get on pc later, anyone else from UK taken a close look at the chronology of our SAGE meeting minutes, and their establishment that all was ok based on low source term calculations and hence no need to reconvene, prior to TEPCOs admitting 3 full meltdowns, melt-throughs, and revised higher rad emissions...? How convenient?
edit on 24-6-2011 by curioustype because: * detail added re: estimating timescales & logistics



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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More boiling water reactor information.
Free download, simulation software:
www.acme-nuclear.com...
Other items of potential interest:
www.iaea.org...
www.oecd-nea.org...
I found these by searching for - "boiling water reactor accident simulation software"
BKGump



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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First Id like to thank all of you, including lurkers for sticking to this. Alot of the other forums and blogs that stayed on top of the situation are beginning to slow down and only examine new data, while here anything TEPCO or IAEA or whomever throws out, be it current or past info, is getting picked to the bone. Good on us all. We cant let these bastards get away with anything.

And now for another possible mystery to add to all the rest. Does anyone know what happened to this building. Or what this building is for. Its the same distance west from 3 as the CSFP is from 4. Its not on any of the plant diagrams. news.lucaswhitefieldhixson.com...





Numerous questions abound concerning this structure, but only tackling this one right now. This building was part of the unit 3 explosion, but never analyzed or mentioned in the TEPCO or IAEA releases I can find. If this was caused by the explosion at 3, a) why is the greatest damage appear to be on the backside and b) why are the upper panels leaning in. As the shot of unit 4 shows, there the walls collapsed inward after the explosion in 4. But in this building, these are lightweight panels compared to the walls of the reactor buildings and if there was any effect from the 3 explosion, these walls would be blown outward, wouldnt they?

My first impression was that these looked more like they were sucked inward. But the other panels were blown outward. Any help identifying this structure, and what happened to it.

ON EDIT: will post the photos later (when I find them again) but there was an aerial shot, I believe a DigitalGlobe one, that showed that the section of roof on the right side of building where you can see something slumping down, was also blown away. You can see the roof missing in this photo too.
edit on 24-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by curioustype
anyone else from UK taken a close look at the chronology of our SAGE meeting minutes, and their establishment that all was ok


CT, what is the SAGE meeting minutes?



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by SFA437

Two words my brother: Normalcy bias.


Had never heard the term before so I looked it up, and your right, its spot on.
Wiki;
The assumption that is made in the case of the normalcy bias is that since a disaster never has occurred then it never will occur. It also results in the inability of people to cope with a disaster once it occurs. People with a normalcy bias have difficulties reacting to something they have not experienced before. People also tend to interpret warnings in the most optimistic way possible, seizing on any ambiguities to infer a less serious situation.

Ive run into it lots but didnt know it was labeled. Glad we're not normal



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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edit on 24-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by zworld
snip...And now for another possible mystery to add to all the rest. ...snip.... section of roof on the right side of building where you can see something slumping down, was also blown away. You can see the roof missing in this photo too.
edit on 24-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)


about page ?450? that building was taken into consideration in a minor way. the damage ( when viewed from various angles) is consistant with the 'odd' blast pattern of debris ejected from #3.

In fact in the still son the video posted by Zorgon one can identify a large rapidly descending mass that appears briefly to be either under going fission and giving off chernkov , or just really reflecting blue light while in a darkish grey dust cloud.

The vector of the obviously 'denser mass' puts it on a trajectory that would hit the back of the building you identify with the correct angle to produce both the observed damage and resultant debris ( a kind of vector /linear spray) in the field inland from the building. Cryptome.org has most of the images ( if you go to cryptome , make sure to down load the hi-res photos listed at teh top , the ones shown are often 1/2 res)

SFA437:



Normalcy bias.

haven't heard that uttered for a century or two , hehe, such a fundament that I forgot it had an actual name an identity outside of a larger machine , much like a single gear from a transmission has a name but is not thought of as one slides around a corner at 60 or so miles an hour. A fine observation and excellent piece of information for those that ( how?) have not wrapped this into the 'profile' of their minds eye.

Curioustype




...snip...are you trying to say you think the SEVERAL THOUSAND...snip...fuel rod assemblies as stated by TEPCO and other s (IAEA etc...) (sic , IAEA?; trust them and you will lose things in this order : money, clothes , life, and now that we have fukushima , in good corporate fashion the IAEA have 'streamlined' that to : life) to have been in the CSFP builiding/2 x pools, have been secretly moved from the facility...snip...

yes, no, maybe ...I am glad you asked.

At fukushima we have a number of odd interactions with the American military. one of the most glaring is the generals comment about how things were 'under control' a while back. this is a double entendre that has absolutely NO GOOD sexual conotations. Add to that the barge shenanigans, that were quiet...long term...and military involved. Also consider our original US helicopter soldiers whom got exposed , one on his skin, and the fact that we have not heard ONE PEEP out of U.S. officials about helping, even after melt-downs were admitted...Japan is suppose to be a friend , hillary said we were sending them "important coolant"(before she "should/could (in an honest world)" have known that it was needed) , so why the hell is the U.S. military core of engineers, not helping ..or at least putting ideas and machinery into Japanese hands...so far the 'help' has come from private corporations. that seems a bit irresponsible ...we, as a nation...no?

As a bit of speculative 'science fiction' ( a term that warms my heart for it's hilarity and absolute magnetic attraction to certain areas of military intelligence and , er, PR) , image that Fuku daiichi WAS processing certain used rods into weapons grade fuel. Since 9% ( by mass) of normal (at teh beginning) uranium fuel rods are plutonium when the rods go to pasture this process is the most ...economical ...in our corporate profit environments of producing profit from 'waste', way of getting weapons gradde materials , and, and this is important , renewing the plutonium supplies ( most people do not realize that nuclear bombs have a shelf lif and needs to be "refitted" on a timely basis).

Let's call it subsidized enrichment...nuclear welfare as it may be. The rods in those pools have an outer coating that is a) easy to get to , and b) mostly plutonium . That , unless one is woefully uniformed , makes them an asset in modern tech terms , it also explains why MOX is such a big push by the military industrial complex..it is following the same policy as almost all military tech that they would like to be more cost effective ( super secret stuff they don't care how much it costs ) , (look up the actual origin of wd-40 sometime , interesting stuff, one of it's creators use to live in Merced , CA)

So we have (science fictionally speaking) , Motive (profit/power), opportunity (barge ops..with really odd and out of tepcos pattern info leaks ), and arguably intent .

Perhaps you were unaware that if the world completed ALL of it's schedulaled to be built or are being built nuclear reactors , by 2025 it would not have enough uranium to fuel them ...

nice thought experiment I guess , but the facts remain that in the thermals of csfp are hot and then go 'dark' . and by dark I mean impossible dark , or not even imaged in public releases ...and the fact the ministry of defense Stopped releasing the thermals ( even though they were severely compromised by varying 'false' color thermal assignations ) speaks volumnes... so yes , no , maybe ...as holmes says eliminate the impossible (that is actually a joke about normalcy bias BTW)abd whatever is left, no matter how improbable is the truth...

the situation reminds me of hitch hikers guide to the galaxy..when an SEP and a few mountain movers try to save a mans ass.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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Im going out on a limb. Dont have anything except what I show below, and I know its a stretch, but as SFA said, this is where we stretch the envelope.

This building west of 3 is one of several reasons why Im beginning to suspect that there is an extensive tunnel system underneath Fukushima. Here are three photos from DigitalGlobe. The first shows damage to the front of the building west of 3, but only the right side. The tower part has no damage and it doesnt appear that the Transmission Building (the big complex between the CSFP and the mystery building west of 3) is damaged (photo #1 and 2).



Now looking at photos #2 and #3, the section identified in my earlier post, right backside is gone, and the debris field behind this mystery building appears to correlate with this damage. I initially thought this was a debris field from 3, but these photos dont agree. It looks more like the heaviest debris is right under the section of blown roof and side.






Now look at the rad data from 4/23 and 6/4 and notice a) the hot sources around the mystery building backside including the soil at 210 and b) the water transfer readings, which for 2,3 and 4 are nearly identical. (And for another topic soon, notice the incredibly high reading from the water transfer system from the building at the far right. Whoa! Whats up with that!).

4/23


6/4


So to me it appears that the main part of the mystery building blew first out, then got sucked back in. If there was a tunnel system connecting this building to 3 this would explain that. When 3 blew, I always thought it first exhaled, then inhaled, then exhaled. What if the explosion first got sucked into the complex and then blew back out 3. The tunnel up into 3 could have vectored the blast. The corium would have broken through into the basement filled with water that is connected to the tunnel and blew in both directions at first, with some exiting out the mystery building then exploding back out through containment of unit 3.

Then there is the mystery as too what happened at 2 and 4. There was an explosion at 4 and the sound of an explosion at 2 but no one has verified damage. What if all they heard was the sound of 4 coming through the underground system and out 2. Plus the explosion at 3 caused valves in the basement of 2 too go bad, and the explosion at 4 is now thought to be from hydrogen from 3, (or maybe from the theorized complex underneath. It all points to being connected to me.

The only other explanation I came up with for the heat and damage to the mystery building is thats where the reactor cap landed if it was indeed launched. And Im still considering that it may have been launched.

ON EDIT: damn SL, no one was supposed to see that post. I accidentally hit post instead of preview. You are quick.
edit on 24-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)


ON EDIT 2: the water transfer pipe from the far building to the right has been cut off. Ill repost it. The readings at the surface there are 180, in an area Im assuming should be close to zero.
edit on 25-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by zworld
 


Don't forget a blast of the size that #3 underwent has two phases where the air is pushed outwards and is then sucked back in.

Given the construction of that building (got no clue what it is- just glanced at it) it would stand to reason that the blast from #3 blew the panels outwards and those that hung on by a thread were shoved back in during the resultant updraft #3 created.

I'll grab the photos tomorrow evening and give em a good through going over (gonna be out riding with the MC all day tomorrow
)



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