It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 944.htm
513
<< 941  942  943    945  946  947 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:30 PM
link   
Is Nebraska Nuclear plant now going to combust, they're flooding it to keep it cool and the Missouri River is either threatening to engulf it or doing so in a controlled manner???

enenews.com...

This is very alarming, and I don't believe its unintentional. With the levee issue before, why didn't they shut down the power plants since they knew this was coming?




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:49 PM
link   
In response to PC's post with the video about the guys going down the steps, here is what they saw...

enenews.com...

Yellow-colored water found in Unit No. 3 — Believed to have come from inside reactor (VIDE



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:54 PM
link   
reply to post by curioustype




Right, please could I ask for a little help on this, it may be nothing, but I don't think anyone can fully explain this yet. I really would like to find a good internal plan/diagram so I could go into Photoshop and edit the thermal, aerial and plan images to show us better where that heat source may reside in the CSFP.


Getting to it


Right, here is what I've got:

The picture with hot spot in question indicated by the yellow ellipse:


All of the following indicate the same building:





The schematic shows this:


Which confirms the location of the CFSP matches the location of the heat source.

This photo of the cutaway version of the CFSP shows the ridge that spans the long axis of the pool itself; this could be the reason there appears to be two hot spots rather than the entire length of the pool as showing hot. The report indicates that the pool was at 90% capacity; 6291 fuel assemblies.

If those got hot, then I don't think things were as hunky dory as Tepco would have us believe; which is as come to be expected
edit on 15-6-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: I wondered where those "b"s went



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:10 PM
link   
thorfourwinds
I will not quote your long post...but thank you so much for putting all this info/data...
creepy stuff going on



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:57 PM
link   
reply to post by matadoor
 


A long, long time ago, in a land far, far away...TMI...1979



People would literally turn out the lights on me to see if I glowed in the dark once they found out I had personally experienced Three Mile Island.

I understand the stigmatization associated with the evacuees from Fukushima prefecture...and soon almost all of Japan...

The psychedelic yellow-tainted water...AREVA, GE, NRC, TEPCO... how in the hell are you gonna "treat" that?

- Purple Chive





edit on 15-6-2011 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 06:43 PM
link   
reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


CT and others, here is what Ive got so far. The first picture in this url below, taken from mid March after all explosions, the CSFP is the square building lower left corner.

www.zerohedge.com...-1127284

The thermal photo posted by Silverlok earlier, showed a significant heat source, as hot or hotter than the SFP in 4, on the roof of the buildings attached to the CSFP. If you look at these roofs, there is a dark spot on top of the equipment that is on top of the roof, about 15 feet from the NE corner of the CSFP roof. This spot also shows up on google satelite, so its not an artifact.

maps.google.com...,141.033458&spn=0.003937,0.01089&z=17

But doesnt show up on the sat photos taken after #3 but before #4 exploded. (see page 4, www.digitalglobe.com...)

And appears to be removed in pictures taken a few days later.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

What the equipment is on these roofs is shown in the diagram of the CSFP from page 10 powerpoint. I dont have a clue what they are, my guess is a recirculation/filtration system for the CSFP, but would love to hear from someone who knows. If an air or water system in contact with the main pool, then the heat source would have come from the CSFP. All hypothetical, but makes me wonder, did the explosion in 4 wake up the CSFP, or possibly just launch something really hot.
edit on 15-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)


On edit; That the CSFP is another elevated off ground pool, another hanging basket so to speak, its kinda strange. Is there a reason for this. The SFPs in reactors are for easy loading unloading, but why here?
edit on 15-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:11 PM
link   
reply to post by zworld
 


In my experience, roof top units are generally A/C condensers of some type. Either for the reactors or for the building A/C systems.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:29 PM
link   
reply to post by Unity_99
 


Kinda eerie...they say things come in "threes"...

And although the guy is a complete lunatic...and the last time I posted this people on the forum went wacko...


He had long preached of a coming nuclear conflict between communism and capitalism, but after the Soviet Union collapsed, Asahara adapted. Now the war would be fought between the United States and Japan, and only Asahara's followers would survive. Japan would be destroyed by a series of disasters, which would culminate in a worldwide nuclear holocaust.

articles.philly.com...

The BP oil spill was a bug bite compared to all of this.

The primal forces of nature have been unleashed..

Let's just hope the levees and sandbags hold.

- Purple Chive



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:45 PM
link   
Now,wait a minute.
I went to college in Council Bluffs,across the river from Omaha.
Where is this nuke plant? Sioux Falls?
I have family about 80 miles east of there.

nevermind I found it
edit on 15-6-2011 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 10:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by Purplechive
 


Holy smokes!

I would be scared of what is down there too. Did you see the number of gamma strikes taking place when they hoisted the camera down that stairwell?



_______________________________________________________________________________




Unless the inset photo is taken in much closer proximity to the fuel bundle assembly, the spacing of the indicated cross members does not match in the two photos. Taken together, I believe that this is much more likely to be a section of folding gate rather than fuel assembly.

I will readily admit that there is a remarkable degree of similarity to the construction of both the the fuel assembly and the folding gate, but the differences do stand out, at least to me. As to why a gate would be covered with a tarp, my thinking is that it's just part of the blast debris and just as likely to have settled there as to have been purposely placed.



timezone: the past
direction : living backwards like chronos

when I originally posted this I was not sure about the motive for presenting such a photo to the public , as it appears to be one section of a core assembly and the rpv cap , but I noted in the beginning that the size and scale seemed wrong , but not by much , and 3 was running MOX which has a known issue of having the assemblies expand ( and either break or distort and not allow scramming ( or any other type of control rod insertion ) so it is not inconceivable that the MOX rod bundles have more re-enforcing connective members , Plus there is obviously gamma energy present , and there is no way that sheet was in the turbine room to begin with so as dances mentioned at the time how did it get there and why ? as it sure would appear that they tried to hide something and didn't quite get the job done ( remember they were using the robots at that time ) . why would anyone spend time trying to hid a gate?

The photo definitely raised more questions than answers, but the inset is not to scale is looks to have been taken with a fish eyed lens and is from the second video dances posted a while ago showing the inside of the daiichi. I made that image by taking a bunch of still screen captures as the camera panned up the rod assembly ( on wide angle ) , so I have no idea how far apart those metal things are suppose to be or even to what scale other than relative to the rods thickness ( you are looking a pieces from four different grabs), but the resemblance was remarkable enough that I that it should be chewed over in the mind grinders on this thread

At any rate it was an odd bird from the word go, frankly it does look a lot like rods and cap ,

And no harm no fowl , I once broke my nose running into a sliding glass door , and another time I was at loss as to why my my toe nails were so soft ( after spending 30 minutes in a hot shower ), a friend of mine told me that I am the dumbest smart guys she knows...I told her that secretly every woman wants her man to be reed richards.

but

I agree in my going backwards to catch -up today way that it does kind of resemble the gate, your anaylsis of the photo is a bit off :


the pink and green arrows are lighter background objects ...and not part of whatever assembly the sheet is draped on ( and why again did the robot sheet this whatever it is ? )

plus the gate seems to be on top of the cap like object , one could say it was displaced but the top of the object is clearly right over the cap like object, and what exactly is the cap like object ? and if it's a gate why is it there ( in the Middle of a room ) as opposed to the other areas where the gates close off sensitive electronics ?

like I said when I first posted it this photo it just doesn't make a lot of sense from the Tepco perspective ( as I though they were trying to get a bite and use it to discredit observers) , but the clincher for me is that Tepco never followed up on this particular area in public , and soon after this photo was released the #3 turbine room got the spray treatment and all those barracades and warning signs , Tepco being Tepco this speaks volumnes
edit on 15-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:00 PM
link   
Gathering what scraps we can, we travel back or forward as necessary. What is important is that we do what we can with what we have. In this medium, that is through careful sifting and weighing of what is put out by Tepco/Japgov or fellow ATSers.

Digs at one another personally should be ignored and the ideas presented should make up the substance of the discussion. By focusing on the realm of ideas, we elevate our conversation and ensure that any debate produces results in the same sphere.

We are at a serious disadvantage, and I would not see that disadvantage strengthened by dissent amongst those of us who would stand against what is wrong in this world. What do we do now? We forge ahead.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. I said a long time ago that I was in for the long haul, and so here I remain.

Looking at this a bit more:


Here is an even closer view of what is emitting the heat:






In this last, R4 is blocking the majority of the structure in question but you can clearly see that whatever it is, it sits well above the main roof level of the building.

Even closer inspection of the thermal image will show a couple of areas that are dark blue (which indicates cooler than background if I am not mistaken) as indicated by the blue ellipses in this image:



Does anyone have any idea what this could be. It looks a bit like miniature cooling towers to me, but that's probably wrong. If that's what they are (or something similar) then why are these the only ones showing such extreme heat/cold in the thermal?

And from the file Z linked:


This is post R3 explosion, but prior R4 explosion.

The closer I look, the more those look like skylights?
edit on 15-6-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: additional image

edit on 15-6-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: let the pictures scroll



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by SirCoxone

Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by SirCoxone

Originally posted by Silverlok


as a reminder about how radioactive these things are and how they are constructed:
vimeo.com...




Think how long the cooling had been off line before that explosion. How hot do you think those rods would have got?

Do you really think they would go for that long full of uncooled nuclear material and land in another building after an explosion still as formed as that?

If that photo was of a nuclear core, then where are the radiation hits on the photo sensor taking the pics, I can see possibly 3 hot pixels. To take a pic of what was an active nuclear core from that distance with a camera you would expect a lot more than that. In fact I would be amazed if anything could get that close to take a photo.

You sent me a link to a video that shows you exactly what happens to the zircaloy a meltdown situation, think about what you are showing me and its effects and how that assembly (if that is what it is) looks.

There is no way on earth that a rod assembly would sit in a reactor meltdown, go through an explosion, get thrown 100's of feet into the air and land in another building looking like that. It is not possible.

I am fully aware of how BWR cans are made and I have done my homework and cannot find anywhere that states where the pellets get inserted into the assembly. If you could provide me with a link that shows the manufacture procedure of the pellets, tubes and can and where it is all finally assembled I would be grateful. I always like to expand my knowledge.



In the vimeo link from the post Arnie describes hot the rods are made ....

google nuclear fuel pellets:

www.google.com...:en-US
fficial&client=firefox-a

please read this post very carefully:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

lots of strange things can happen in an explosion, in the bikini atoll (or maybe the marshal islands, damn memory cells ) an aircraft carrier that was directly under an atomic test explosion was driven straight to the bottom of the ocean and embedded there , it didn't damage the ship in any other way and there were planes still chained to the deck ...wave cancellation happens in sound in a room it also happens in the reflected blast waves in an explosion, and rods melt from the center out ( so some of the outer ones may have been partially whole , or since we have a blast at teh pool from three the water may have shielded a rod set partially while it was being ejected , or sucked out ( venturi is a possibility I mentioned a while back )) and the assemblies are twelve feet long and clad in metal casing , in the pic we have part of one that might be six feet long and stripped of it's casing so it is hardly untouched, but again , like I said in the original post which very few people read I guess ...that photo is not conclusive, interesting yes , circumstantial yes, but then as now I am not 100%that it is not a red herring ( LIKE I said in the original post )

as to oddities escaping from destruction :

these photos rock : justpaste.it...

but the epicenter of the blast at hiroshima is very interesting :



I still do not see compelling evidence really to either side of the fence on this issue I know it's possible that what were seeing is what it appears: rods, and cap, but cannot find solid secondary evidence or conclusions , also the gate theory is interesting but the gate appears to have joints/hinges every few inches and that rodish looking thing at best has twelve to 15 inch spacing .. I just don't see enough correlation in either placement /function area, or visual reference...
but I also know it's a crap photo in bad light taken by robot and distributed by a notoriously dishonest group of people , personally I will stick with occam's razor , the simplest explanation is normally correct:
we have gamma radiation in the photo, and after this little adventure into three it was "off-limits" due to extremely high radiation.
Tepco lied about where the photo was taken.
Somehow a CLEAN( after an explosion and tsunami swamping, wow) sheet got inside a nuclear power facility and artfully but incompletely ( what you might expect from a robot controlled by inexperienced hands on debris strewn terrain ) covered something that vaguely resembles a busted rod assembly sitting atop something very similar in size and shape to a flangeless rpv cap,

that's enough quacking that I might start looking for the duck ...I may find a hunter and a duck whistle, but then again I may find a duck...



edit on 15-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



ah , now generally I let peopl edo there own typing in google but

a pic of a cross section of fuel rod:
rods chopped
and everythign you never wanted to know about fuel rod construction:
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 15-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
reply to post by Purplechive
 


The only thing those sheets will stop is curious eyes from seeing in and nothing from getting out.

Unless of course a 1mm thick sheet of polyester is indeed a non-permeable membrane?


They should have already started building this:



The tech is proven and available all Tepco would have to do is call up the 'Eden Project' and ask to borrow the plans...

they may even be able to build it off site to open like an umbrella , now that would be something I think the Japan could be proud of
edit on 15-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:54 PM
link   
reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Nice photos J&C. I sure hope someone knows what they are. When I first saw them, I thought, 'Oh no, thats not what they meant by re-racking is it?' I quickly assumed nobody would be that stupid, then I remember reading early on that the CSFP building was not especially well built in terms of radiation shield in case of accident in the first place. But I cant find where I read that and will keep looking for it and info on the whatever they are on top of the buildings around the CSFP.

And I totally agree. Onward and upward. Thanks for putting it so clearly.

On edit. Concerning the equipment housing, It almost looks like a holding tank underneath from the side view. Also, first impression of dark area is that something fell through it, as opposed to something blowing out, or something laying on top.
edit on 16-6-2011 by zworld because: Damn, how many times do I have to tell you, Im an idiot, now lets drop it OK!!



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by matadoor
 


Unfortunately there are a lot of enablers on this thread. It is incomprehensible to me that in 3 months not one person has asked a certain poster to quit talking over the heads of everyone else. I doubt most understand half of what he says and I just quit reading his posts a long time ago. I've known other people like this and to a man the common theme was their intellectual and emotional insecurity...they talked over peoples heads because it made them feel intellectually superior in some childish fashion.

I'll giv e you an example. The most beloved poster on this thread was TRN. But he was loved and popular because even though he was obviously educated and learned in the subject he explained things in a way the common man and woman could understand. I don't once remember him condescending, criticizing or attacking another member no matter how ignorant they were on the subject. he was always polite and patient.

Believe me, if the subject in question had any real juice he wouldn't be posting on this website, he'd be over at the physics forum where his theories would be subject to rigorous examination. He is here because to him he is lording overand that is why he reacts so viciously when his opinions are questioned...nobody is allowed to question the king.


edit on 15-6-2011 by mrbillshow because: sp


hey mrbill always good to have such an adult to lead the way by example...TRN was also a moderator and pro nuclear...but I am sure that has nothing to do with your opinion , or TRN's behavior

I am glad we can look forward to more of your ever insightful posts about nuclear energy , corporate corruption and , oh yeah , FUKUSHIMA Daiichi, you know what this thread is about ...

I do not seem to recall the title having "mystery poster" IS A DICK in it anywhere , but that does sound like a fine topic for a new thread , you should start it and bash that guy all you like , go ahead, really, I have a sneaking suspicion he won't mind one whit .

" I've known other people like this " really ? can you give me their contact information , I need to expand my circle of feeble minded friends and " inadequate subjects " , I just haven't felt satisfied recently lording over the ones I have now , ah the ennui of lordship.
You know quality viciousness is a dying commodity these days I would think a fellow like yourself could appreciate that .

Here is an idea , why don't you post the things your mystery poster has written here over at the physics forum and then delight over them tearing apart that guys corpse, you can then bring the pieces back here to publicly humiliate whomever you may be alluding to. Seriously he may be so crushed he may cry, and if it changes teh nature of our understanding of fukushima then by all means it will be a good thing .

"intellectual and emotional insecurity" .haahahaahahahaha, hey I am going to let you in on a little secret , now don't tell anyone but a lot of times I get ripped drunk when I am posting on here because the subject matter is so depressing, and quite frankly I am amazed that I haven't begun to believe the flying spaghetti monster created fuku daiichi as retribution for my failing to continue to secure my intellect , or emotions, oh and also watching anime porn an sexting, which is what young people do right.

And god bless you for this wonderful description : " "...has asked a certain poster to quit talking over the heads of everyone else. I doubt most understand half of what he says and I just quit reading his posts a long time ago...."

"doubt most understand"
and
"just quit reading"
Awesome , I wish that guy would quit talking over my head , it just makes me so dizzy trying to understand all that complicated stuff I don't read

NOw something I don't understand is how... , being a lordish , overbearing, egghead (that apparently can talk over peoples heads but still be without juice and wrong ) , whom only places his own interests and ego ahead of anything else,
....that people don't get behind KAN , I mean he is obviously a kindered soul and clearly one of the "...to a man..." my kind of men , surely someone should ask him to stop talking over peoples heads and step down , I mean the protestors are in the streets in Japan , but that dick KAN just keeps hanging in there:


Prime Minister Naoto Kan says he is determined to enact an energy-related bill in the current session of parliament despite calls for him to step down.


The bill is mentioned with few details on NHk , but implies use of " natural energy sources "? I mean technically uranium comes from nature so does that count ?
Anyway this bit is interesting:


One of the participants, Softbank Chairman and CEO Masayoshi Son said he hopes Kan succeeds in getting the bill through the Diet.

The Prime Minister jokingly said he will tell his opponents in the Diet that if they really hope to see him resign early, they should agree to enact the bill. Kan was referring to legislators who are calling for him to step down because of his handling of the March 11th disaster and the Fukushima nuclear accident.


Softbankseems to be primarily a telecommunications and internet tech company ( Japanese subsidiaries of foreign companies such as Yahoo!, E-Trade and Morningstar.), but tthe interest would seem to stem from the fat that Softbank seems to have a large number of venture capitol firms , it would seem to fit that perhaps Kan is looking appease the masses and perhaps save his hide politically with this maneuver, while at the same time funneling a lot of government money into softbank venture capital .

it seems like investment in renewables tech (if that's what natural means ) would be a good thing , but since soft bank is the exclusive carrier for iphone, I wonder if this is not just another ploy by tryibg to appeal to the demographic that uses iphones...assuming they are the same general category as the iphone users in the US ( generally educated , middle to upper class, and socially and politically aware )


Also, from NHK


March disaster displaces over 124,000, ....Nearly 80 percent of them were from Fukushima.

The figure released by the Cabinet Office well surpasses the data compiled by police.


this is another of those number that never seem to add up after a disaster ... the displaced plus the dead don't equal the before disaster population , do they ?

here is something that will shock , well no one here ...


Govt. releases radiation readings at 1-meter-high...It said radiation levels measured at a height of one meter on Monday in some prefectures, including Yamagata and Tochigi, were more than twice as high as those recorded at the monitoring posts


Now here is a bit of floatsome that makes me think perhaps JAck and the boys are getting tired of dry-cleaning the sweat stains out of their suits:


The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission or the NRC has debated if the drawing up of guidelines for severe catastrophes at nuclear power plants should be left to efforts by the nuclear industry.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 01:51 AM
link   
reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Thank you ever so much JnC, you did what I couldn't last night and you've provided some excellent photos and clearly identified the location of the hotspot, thanks. I have a few points to make before this goes further:

1. When looking at these photos, please everyone look again at the TEPCO pdf/ppt, p.s 10 & 11. Remember, there are TWO pools in there, the large one (CSFP#1 presumably) is located, as shown on p.10, as in the centre of the complex, so directly under the large rectangular roof in the center of the building.

The cutaway on p.10 DOES NOT clarify (at least from my looking at it) where CSFP#2 is in there (see diagram of CSFP minus any other building info on p.11), but, surely that means that it is likely in the part of the building that is not revealed in the cutaway on p.10, which is essentially the area including the end of the building directly beneath the roof covering the hotspot/heatsource identified so clearly now by JnC.

2. The rooftop structure we have identified as above the location of the heat source is similar, but smaller than, a similar rooftop structure along the sea/R4-aspect frontage, and next to the large rectangular roof (over the larger pool - CSFP#1), could that be another indication that the hot/damaged structure we are examining is for CSFP#2 rather than the main central CSFP#1? *I'm still not sure it is the same kind of structure, if it is sky-lights or just a roof, then perhaps the other structure provides combined services for both pools?

3. If you look at the last two photos you provided, I see not only charring on the rooftop (and no debris on top - so not debris from R3/4 then), matching up to the thermal image very well (thus corroborating an internal source), but also, look closely at the wall of that structure facing the large central rectangular roof, I see possible evidence of damage to the side, cladding or windows damaged or fallen off? Together with the charred roof, I'd say that indicates either fire, or even some kind of blast?


I have a busy day ahead and was up all nigt with a migrane, so I may not get back for a while, please could you all take a look at this, if they have had a more serious event in that building, and completely covered it up, it could have serious ramifications for not only their reputation, but I suspect it will impact, or certainly should impact on spent fuel storage safety reviews worldwide. It also opens up many questions about the 3rd party "inspections" and "observations" by IAEA, AREVA (both had on-site inspectins alledgedly) and the USgov (NRC and satellite intel observations).

It would also appear reasonable for the public to expect to see this properly covered within any quotes and bids for the clean-up/containment, which as I have already posted, have begun to be presented already by the likes of Hitachi/GE...

SFA: could this be another reason that NBC/marine unit is still deployed - I know, as if they need additional reasons from thise at Rs1-6?

[* I've looked again, I think it IS a similar but smaller cooling system of some sort, I'm going with it being for CSFP#2, and that that second pool is probably below it somewhere. Gotta ask, IF the heat came from the pool, way down below, and not a fire in the rooftop system (any indication of that thus far in TEPCO/reports?) it has gotten pretty hot to char the roof ABOVE that open-air-ventilated structure...?]
edit on 16-6-2011 by curioustype because: *amendment required for accuracy


[Looked at it again, I've got to say, I can't rule out the 'hole' in the rooftop we're looking at could have been impact from debris, although that may or may not explain the heat source...I don't have time now, JnC could you take a look at the photos chronologically, does the hole appear after discolouration in that spot?]
edit on 16-6-2011 by curioustype because: Further balancing of observations/theories added

edit on 16-6-2011 by curioustype because: typo



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by curioustype
reply to post by jadedANDcynical

snip

[Looked at it again, I've got to say, I can't rule out the 'hole' in the rooftop we're looking at could have been impact from debris, although that may or may not explain the heat source...I don't have time now, JnC could you take a look at the photos chronologically, does the hole appear after discolouration in that spot?]
edit on 16-6-2011 by curioustype because: Further balancing of observations/theories added

edit on 16-6-2011 by curioustype because: typo


I'm a bit uncertain as to what you're speaking of as far as discolored areas but as I looked again, it seems as though the damage to the area I's seeing took place after R4 went up.

In the last photo of the series I posted in my previous post, it looks like the top of that building is undamaged, but all of the others (which are clearly after R4 went up) shows the damage to what I referred to as sky lights.

I'm about to seek the sunless lands myself, so I will go through with a finer tooth comb tomorrow.

Good evening everyone!



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by curioustype
IF the heat came from the pool, way down below, and not a fire in the rooftop system (any indication of that thus far in TEPCO/reports?) it has gotten pretty hot to char the roof ABOVE that open-air-ventilated structure...?]


From IAEA reports

www.iaea.org...




"In addition to pools in each of the plant's reactor buildings, there is another facility - the Common Use Spent Fuel Pool - where spent fuel is stored after cooling at least 18 months in the reactor buildings. This fuel is much cooler than the assemblies stored in the reactor buildings. Japanese authorities confirmed as of 18 March that fuel assemblies there were fully covered by water, and the temperature was 57 °C as of 20 March, 00:00 UTC. Workers sprayed water over the pool on 21 March for nearly five hours, and the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency reported that the pool temperature had risen to 61 °C as of 21 March, 07:30 UTC."


On the 18th everything is fine, on the 21 the pool needs five hours of watering and the temp is rising. two days later the temp was back to 57C (IAEA March 24), though a later report states, due to switching to external power there is "a brief rise in temperature also occurred at the Common Spent Fuel Pool on 24 March".




"At the Common Spent Fuel, the power supply was restored as of 24 March, 06:37 UTC and cooling started again 28 minutes later.....As of 24 March, 09:40 UTC, the water temperature of the pool was around 73 °C."


A week later they start spraying anti scattering agent around pool, then 10 days later they spray the backside and mountain slope.



"The Common Spent Fuel Pool temperature is stable. TEPCO tested an "anti-scattering" agent (2 000 l) on 500 m2 area around the Common Spent Fuel Storage facility on 1t April. The purpose of spraying is to prevent radioactive particles from being dispersed from the plant by winds and rain". "On 10 April additional anti-scattering agent was sprayed in an area of about 550 m2 on the mountain-side of the Common Spent Fuel Pool to prevent the radioactive materials on the ground from being scattered".


And From the IAEA 2002 report on SFPs.

There is a diagram on page 27 of a new design for rod assemblies to be used in wet storage. This looks a bit like the things on the roof of the CSFPs support buildings. But I cant figure the scale. It also states;




"Up to now, the nuclear industry worldwide has accumulated significant fuel storage operating experience over the past 50 years. This experience is mainly based on wet storage systems, which have been found to be safe and effective. Wet fuel storage is now considered to be a mature technology." "In wet storage there exist no urgent questions to be solved with regard to increasing operating life times"


The hanging basket over the reactor concept of fuel storage is as far as they think they need to take the technology? Wow, we are in so much trouble.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by zworld
is because someone from this forum, (and from the writing style Im pretty sure it was Silverlok) took on the name Ihatelies and tried to cram Silverloks theory complete with all the photos and flashing yellow reactor caps, down the throats of the much more scientifically knowledgeable people at the PF forums.



That ain't me buddy. I don't know what an Ihatelies is, and don't much care, but if that is the way you want to play I guess I understand how you operate and where you're coming from.

if a bunch of "scientifically knowledgeable" guys tore apart something bring the information over here or at least link to it, I find it interesting that you feel it O.K to baselessly slander and defame character , with nothing more than your word as proof , but honestly if you have data that invalidates the ideas accepted her , BY ALL MEANS POST THE LINKS, in the case of #3 popped or not popped Horatio, alas I wish we knew it well ... but we don't , and the bottom line amounts to how and when radiation was released and whether another agent ( or action ) was involved other than the offical 'complete crap' version of the events.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 02:50 AM
link   
(Sarcasm)
Speaking as a feeble minded subject I humbly beg the king to please dumb down what he is saying since it is so far beyond my comprehension I see the letters but not the forms. Being, perhaps, one of MrBS's "housewives" (haha, NOT) or "gamers" (sometimes) that inhabit this thread (or was it "mice"?) I am far too intellectually protozoic to understand anything as vastly complicated as nuclear power, so I attach myself to the smartest person in the room and gooble up the tiny crumbs of comprehensible knowledge that fall from his hero sandwiches. I'm so grateful for MrBS for sticking it to the man on my behalf and standing up for the little people who were drowning in too much information. I'm certain he does it for our own good and his intentions were entirely selfless. I'm sure when MrBS decides he's going to make a contribution to our collective knowledge, other than his vastly insightful zingers, it will be of such miraculous proportions it will stun us all rigid with it's brilliance.

(Seriously)
Now I was a little disgusted to open up the thread and see all this negativity today. Sometimes though, especially with topics as charged as this we need to air out the laundry every once and a while I suppose. So here's my bit then I'm done.

Shouldn't we have some standards? It may be that many folks on the thread aren't used to the ebb and flow of scientific discussion that is sometimes argumentative, it can be a bit harsh and overly competitive at times. Many new folks to the thread might be unused to being held to account for their rigor, sources and assumptions, and perhaps some of us might have erred on occasion forgetting that these folks might feel offended to be asked for this. But I think it is healthy for the outcomes and knowledge we are gaining about this event that we do apply some standards and ask for folks to back up opinions with data and evidence, to justify their positions so that we can analyze and discuss the merits of the ideas here. After all, the point is, we're trying to get through the BS and get to the truth.

99% of the posters on the thread know this full well. It may be that some folks, however, might have felt persecuted and got their feelings hurt when the intention was simply to apply a common principle and standard of evidence. We might have asked people more nicely perhaps been a bit less reactive to their tone, I think some of us just assume that people know these things and shouldn't require hand holding. Personally, I'd like for us all to get along in a collegial team fashion where we can call someone to task when required, it's understood as part of the process, and it wouldn't become WWIII. Just to remind some folks that calling someone to task isn't the same as "bickering". I love peace and harmony too, however, we're not here to be friends (if that happens it's a byproduct) but to seek the truth and If I'm really off the mark I'd hope that people would set me straight and not be afraid to engage in a lively debate, and not fear of disrupting the peace love and harmony. I hope you all can see the point I am making and that it came across well.
edit on 16-6-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
513
<< 941  942  943    945  946  947 >>

log in

join