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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Purplechive
 


Holy smokes!

I would be scared of what is down there too. Did you see the number of gamma strikes taking place when they hoisted the camera down that stairwell?



_______________________________________________________________________________

As to my earlier point about the fuel assembly comparison, here are my visual data:

Compare that to this:


Unless the inset photo is taken in much closer proximity to the fuel bundle assembly, the spacing of the indicated cross members does not match in the two photos. Taken together, I believe that this is much more likely to be a section of folding gate rather than fuel assembly.

I will readily admit that there is a remarkable degree of similarity to the construction of both the the fuel assembly and the folding gate, but the differences do stand out, at least to me. As to why a gate would be covered with a tarp, my thinking is that it's just part of the blast debris and just as likely to have settled there as to have been purposely placed.




posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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A list of websites with data related to Fuku. Pretty comprehensive;

everist.org...!_Fukushima_nuclear_disaster_info.txt

Still trying to get a handle on the CSFP, will post if I come up with something. 60% of the fuel at Fuku resides in that pool.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by Purplechive
 


Holy smokes!

I would be scared of what is down there too. Did you see the number of gamma strikes taking place when they hoisted the camera down that stairwell?



_______________________________________________________________________________

As to my earlier point about the fuel assembly comparison, here are my visual data:

Compare that to this:


Unless the inset photo is taken in much closer proximity to the fuel bundle assembly, the spacing of the indicated cross members does not match in the two photos. Taken together, I believe that this is much more likely to be a section of folding gate rather than fuel assembly.

I will readily admit that there is a remarkable degree of similarity to the construction of both the the fuel assembly and the folding gate, but the differences do stand out, at least to me. As to why a gate would be covered with a tarp, my thinking is that it's just part of the blast debris and just as likely to have settled there as to have been purposely placed.



J & C I also agree, looks like a gate.

I'll also note that if this were indeed a fuel assembly out of water, isn't it supposed to be a melted blob?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 


"The Power of Poop"



(Sorry moderator but going a little "off topic" here)

Scientist will need to start a scatological study soon to see how radioactive isotopes are being processed within the human body and ultimately excreted...


1. How often do you have bowel movement?


blog.beliefnet.com...

- Purple Chive



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by matadoor
reply to post by mrbillshow
 


Could not have said it better myself Mr. Bill. I'm just sitting, waiting for the truth about #3 to come out.


Ah.... the truth that the SFR pool, located on the north side of the building, produced a small nuclear explosion and the resultant blast wave somehow, in it's entirety, made a 90 degree turn southward leaving the rest of the structure essentially untouched, crossed the length of the building, made another sharp 90 degree turn to the vertical and destroyed the south side while leaving the side it detonated on basically intact.

Yup- I'll be waiting for that too.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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I know I said I was only going to lurk but Ive never been good at keeping my mouth shut


concerning the flashes of light we've all seen emanating from the west side of unit 4, these keep getting written off as flashlights, floodlights, vehicle lights etc etc just as the steam/smoke keeps getting written off as fog coming in. Welding usually isnt included so I think we can safely say it isnt that.

My question is this. I watch brief bits of the TBS and TEPCO live cam often, checking now and then throughout the day. Ive also studied most of the events (possible mass emissions from 4 like the other night) closely. I cant remember ever seeing these flashes of light when there wasnt an event going on. If these flashes are really traffic and headlamps and whatever, why do they always show up when there is an event, and yet Ive never seen them when things are quiet. Has anyone noticed these flashes at times when there isnt an event going on? Since they are bringing in water storage tanks constantly, day and night, and driving or walking around monitoring the plant, these lights would be seen at other times as well as when an event is going on. If anyone has seen the bright explosive like flashes at other times please let me know as I can put a theory to rest.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Actually that being a gate makes quite a lot of sense, especially taken in conjunction with the tarp.

Considering the blasts in the buildings, as well as the fires, particulate radionuclides would be floating all over the place. The workers need to be as protected as possible and the building itself needs to be as buttoned up as possible when the workers are not inside. Seeing as how the majority of the release is comprised of alpha and beta emitters a tarp would work to help contain additional contamination from ongoing chugging within the structure.

A gated area would be the most natural point to hang a tarp. Even if the gate itself was bent and non-functional (loos like that one is busted up pretty well) it was there originally for a reason. Whatever that reason was, the tarp now serves as a visual reminder as well as containing (to the best degree possible under the circumstances) particulates of the core and/or SFR pool.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by zworld
I know I said I was only going to lurk but Ive never been good at keeping my mouth shut


concerning the flashes of light we've all seen emanating from the west side of unit 4, these keep getting written off as flashlights, floodlights, vehicle lights etc etc just as the steam/smoke keeps getting written off as fog coming in. Welding usually isnt included so I think we can safely say it isnt that.

My question is this. I watch brief bits of the TBS and TEPCO live cam often, checking now and then throughout the day. Ive also studied most of the events (possible mass emissions from 4 like the other night) closely. I cant remember ever seeing these flashes of light when there wasnt an event going on. If these flashes are really traffic and headlamps and whatever, why do they always show up when there is an event, and yet Ive never seen them when things are quiet. Has anyone noticed these flashes at times when there isnt an event going on? Since they are bringing in water storage tanks constantly, day and night, and driving or walking around monitoring the plant, these lights would be seen at other times as well as when an event is going on. If anyone has seen the bright explosive like flashes at other times please let me know as I can put a theory to rest.


Those flashes aren't flashlights or vehicle lights IMO. Welding is a possibility, especially since they need to shore up that SFR pool as quickly as possible to prevent it's collapse but without a clear offshore view it's going to be a PITA to determine what is causing it. The size of the flashes remind me of transformers letting loose though so maybe what we're seeing is electrical equipment going belly up. Just guessing- someone with more knowledge might be able to give a better answer but I think welding or electrical failures are the two most probable.

I don't watch the webcams much as my area of expertise is quite narrow as far as the meltdowns and everything that's gone on since the explosions. I look at overheads and do post blast analysis to determine effects on target. The IR photos and overheads are my bailiwick although I can say after this many pages I've picked up more info on the GE BWR than the guys who built the damn things have



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Didn't see this posted yet..

mdn.mainichi.jp...

TEPCO unveils plan to construct shelters to cover radiation-leaking buildings


A miniature showing the planned construction of a shelter around disaster-hit Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant's No. 1 nuclear reactor building. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.)
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO), the operator of the troubled Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant, unveiled on June 14 the outline of its plan to construct shelters to cover its radiation-leaking nuclear reactor buildings.

The shelters, each measuring approximately 47 meters wide, 42 meters long and 54 meters tall, consist of iron frames and vinyl chloride-coated polyester resin walls. The utility is planning to start putting up shelters on June 27 around its No. 1, 3 and 4 reactor buildings that were severely damaged in hydrogen explosions following the March 11 Great East Japan Earthquake and tsunami.

The structure is expected to contain the radioactive materials and toxic water vapor leaking from nuclear reactors and spent-fuel pools, while preventing rainwater from pouring into the buildings to be contaminated with radiation. The company said it is in the process of examining the shelter's quake and wind pressure resistance.

TEPCO first introduced its plan to construct shelters around the crippled nuclear reactors in April, when it announced a timetable for bringing an end to the ongoing nuclear crisis. In order to avoid radiation exposure of construction workers, building materials will be assembled into several large parts, each measuring tens of meters in diameter, at a TEPCO facility in the Fukushima Prefecture city of Iwaki, before they are transported by ferry to the nuclear power station and put together around the three reactor buildings using construction cranes.

On June 14, TEPCO also reported the results of a test using cesium-absorbing equipment developed by U.S. nuclear waste management firm Kurion Inc. The utility said it successfully reduced the amount of cesium 134 and 137 in the tainted water to around 1/3,000 of the levels before the decontamination treatment.

"The equipment has achieved the result we had expected," said a TEPCO official.

The company also plans to conduct a trial operation of another water treatment method developed by French nuclear engineering giant Areva SA, which removes radioactive materials from contaminated water using chemicals, with a full-fledged operation of the entire water treatment system scheduled to start on June 17.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by curioustype

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Silverlok

the first thermal released the red arrow is #4 the green arrow is #3 sfp and teh black arrow red circle is the aera of the #3 rpv:





Those two heat signatures west of #4 reactor building, that would be the CSFP area yes? Friggin A I never put those together. If thats the case, it fits the map, what is causing the heat. I am really beginning to be troubled over the CSFP, its location and now those heat readings from early on. Please someone tell me those are the hot tubs they put in for the workers.


I confer that if we think the site map I posted last night had the CSFP location correct opposite and inland/west of R4, I also see the outline/ghost of the transformer building top right in the thermal, CSFP top left, and even the two small round tanks in front of CSFP.

I don't wish to jump to conclusions about what the heat source could have been at the CSFP, debris landed on roof?, overheated electronics?, overheated cooling gear?

However, unlike the first time these thermal images were discussed, bear in mind we now have confirmation from TEPCO that initial suspicions about the hotspots in the picture at R3 being in or on way to/from meltdown nuclear fuel and I think Mr A Gundersen may have similar ideas about R4?

Will get back later tonight if I can.
edit on 14-6-2011 by curioustype because: sorry, initial post said tepco confirmed meltdown in r3&4, of course they didn't, corrected myself...


Right, please could I ask for a little help on this, it may be nothing, but I don't think anyone can fully explain this yet. I really would like to find a good internal plan/diagram so I could go into Photoshop and edit the thermal, aerial and plan images to show us better where that heat source may reside in the CSFP.

I have still not found better images or plans/cutaways of the CSFP complex than the ones embedded in this PDF from TEPCO:

TEPCO Storage Status of Spent Fuel 6-1
Integrity Inspection of Dry Storage Casks and Spent Fuels at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
16 November 2010


Please look especially at pages 10 and 11. Please note: Within the CSFP there are in fact 2 storage pools.
There are all kinds of cranes and items that could have failed or crashed into the tanks, even vehicles (see the low-loader in foreground p.10 diagram)...the mind boggles at what could have happened in there, and we have NO pictures of the inside post March12th.

I also found another doc whilst browsing the same site with TEPCO's update dated 22 March, and various other stats reports, they all omit mentioning 2 pools, i.e.

TEPCO (Tokyo Electric & Power Co.) Owner of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Reactors Status of Operations as of 11-00 PM March 22 2011



** On March 18th, regarding the spent fuel in the common spent
fuel pool,
we have confirmed that the water level of the pool is secured.
A detailed
inspection is under preparation.
* common spent fuel pool: a spent fuel pool for common use set
in a
separate building in a plant site in order to preserve spent
fuel
which are transferred from the spent fuel pool in each Unit
building.
* On March 17th, we patrolled buildings for dry casks and found
no signs of
abnormal situation for the casks by visual observation. A
detailed
inspection is under preparation.
* dry cask: a measure to store spent fuel in a dry storage
casks in
storages. Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station started to
utilize
the measure from August 1995.


It may be nothing, but in view of the fact that Zworld has correctly pointed out a whopping great heat source photographed at the CSFP complex, I began to wonder, whether the fact that the reports only refer to status at "the pool" in terms of "stable", and with regards temperature readings (i.e. stabilised at 55 c after the initial power outages) - why not 2 temp readings? Maybe we're just nitpicking?

SFA - somebody - could you possibly help me later with getting imagery tpgether it may take me a few days to edit them, due to other demands. I really don't care if this became the next "it's a gate", but if TEPCO are hiding another accident of that order, at what is perhaps, one of the most politically and commercially sensitive buildings on site, it would surely be quite significant and worth a closer look?

As Des pointed out, prior to F Daiichi, spent fuel was THE elephant in the room...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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Ya Gotta Love this NRC Dude!!



Bill Borchardt, NRC executive director for operations:


Conditions at the site “continue to improve,” although the stricken reactors still aren’t completely under control


meanwhile, yesterday TEPCO/Japan gov't:

Japanese gov’t report on Fukushima: “The situation has become extremely severe”
enenews.com...


“Full stability may be several months away,”


Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant unit 4 probably didn’t lose all its cooling water early in the crisis, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said.

www.bloomberg.com...

And then the recent hype on the guy:

Man of the People: Leadership Profile of William Borchardt, Executive Director for Operations, NRC


www.collaborativegov.org...

I'm gonna go split some wood. And with the annihilation of every log, I'll think of all the tax dollars being wasted in this pit of corruption and incompetence.

- Purple Chive







edit on 15-6-2011 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by curioustype
 


In the NRC public mullings that question came up relatively early but was not really addressed. The important factors that were mentioned were that the Japanese waste pools were estimated by Randy Sullivan (NSIR) to been able to last over thirty days without boiling out from cooling loss.

IF that can be extended to the common waste pool (located in the building directly inland and uphill from the #4 reactor building) then tepco's basic early strategy seemed to be rotating refilling pools as they evaped (boiled), but they made their estimates on ONLY heat generation figuring they had weeks if not more before they had to worry, and failed to take into account water loss from cracks or other explosive damage(If they went into the reactors in the first few days no one came out with the information on leakages or it was disregarded), so the pool at four became a casualty to leakage , criticality and then explosion damage, twice.

The common storage pool was showing elevated temperatures on the first of the thermal images released on 3-23, but do not seem to be adequately imaged again ( i haven't been able to check in a couple of days though ), So I would guess that the same strategy applied there and they just tried to keep the water levels up until they could get some kind of cooling back on line ( which I believe Tepco admitted about 4-7), but good thinking , passive radiators like giant cpu cooling heat sinks should be stationed over such pools as submerged lids , just in case
edit on 30-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


Silverlock, just going back through some of the earlier discussions about the CFSPs, thougt this was pertinent to what's being discussed now. I thought someone posted some library images of the CSFP some time - was it you? Still digging back...

[Sorry, tired too, getting slack, Silverlock, the other reason I posted this now is that clearly it shows the link between the thermal imagery and the CSFP had been spotted earlier on, sorry Zworld.

But why did we not pursue what happened there as much as with the other hot spots identified? Cleary the story of the reactors and their SFPs was looking more pressing, but I'm guessing we haven't seen further thermal imagery to show it cooled off there? Or have anything except the TEPCO statements about temp readings and water levels at "the pool" being "secured" ans "stable" to go on....they haven't always been to forthcoming about such things have they?]
edit on 15-6-2011 by curioustype because: Almost forgot to say the most important thing...



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Purplechive
 

Hi PC, yes they remind me of some other parties I read about recently:

Did you see that stuff I posted from GE Hitachi (Westinghouse?) a couple of days ago, on the same day posting PR about both a 30 year $multi -trillion bid to clean-up (F Daichii - which THEY built!) noting how unprecedented and bad it is in their words (so as to get more money to clean it up) and elsewhere, a PDF (which had conditions restricting use/copying) pitching to Lithuania saying how they and the Japanese nuclear industry were currently the strongest candidates on the planet for the FIRST bid to build a nuclear power plant since F Daiichi happened (and rather sickeningly IMO before it has even reached the safely covered over stage...)

Perhaps it's impossible to run a nuclear power entity and not be entirely jaded and cynical in your outlook, given that they know what we have learnt, and more...?
edit on 15-6-2011 by curioustype because: typos



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by curioustype

Originally posted by curioustype

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Silverlok

the first thermal released the red arrow is #4 the green arrow is #3 sfp and teh black arrow red circle is the aera of the #3 rpv:





Those two heat signatures west of #4 reactor building, that would be the CSFP area yes? Friggin A I never put those together. If thats the case, it fits the map, what is causing the heat. I am really beginning to be troubled over the CSFP, its location and now those heat readings from early on. Please someone tell me those are the hot tubs they put in for the workers.


I confer that if we think the site map I posted last night had the CSFP location correct opposite and inland/west of R4, I also see the outline/ghost of the transformer building top right in the thermal, CSFP top left, and even the two small round tanks in front of CSFP.

I don't wish to jump to conclusions about what the heat source could have been at the CSFP, debris landed on roof?, overheated electronics?, overheated cooling gear?

However, unlike the first time these thermal images were discussed, bear in mind we now have confirmation from TEPCO that initial suspicions about the hotspots in the picture at R3 being in or on way to/from meltdown nuclear fuel and I think Mr A Gundersen may have similar ideas about R4?

Will get back later tonight if I can.
edit on 14-6-2011 by curioustype because: sorry, initial post said tepco confirmed meltdown in r3&4, of course they didn't, corrected myself...


Right, please could I ask for a little help on this, it may be nothing, but I don't think anyone can fully explain this yet. I really would like to find a good internal plan/diagram so I could go into Photoshop and edit the thermal, aerial and plan images to show us better where that heat source may reside in the CSFP.

I have still not found better images or plans/cutaways of the CSFP complex than the ones embedded in this PDF from TEPCO:

TEPCO Storage Status of Spent Fuel 6-1
Integrity Inspection of Dry Storage Casks and Spent Fuels at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
16 November 2010


Please look especially at pages 10 and 11. Please note: Within the CSFP there are in fact 2 storage pools.
There are all kinds of cranes and items that could have failed or crashed into the tanks, even vehicles (see the low-loader in foreground p.10 diagram)...the mind boggles at what could have happened in there, and we have NO pictures of the inside post March12th.

I also found another doc whilst browsing the same site with TEPCO's update dated 22 March, and various other stats reports, they all omit mentioning 2 pools, i.e.

TEPCO (Tokyo Electric & Power Co.) Owner of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Reactors Status of Operations as of 11-00 PM March 22 2011



** On March 18th, regarding the spent fuel in the common spent
fuel pool,
we have confirmed that the water level of the pool is secured.
A detailed
inspection is under preparation.
* common spent fuel pool: a spent fuel pool for common use set
in a
separate building in a plant site in order to preserve spent
fuel
which are transferred from the spent fuel pool in each Unit
building.
* On March 17th, we patrolled buildings for dry casks and found
no signs of
abnormal situation for the casks by visual observation. A
detailed
inspection is under preparation.
* dry cask: a measure to store spent fuel in a dry storage
casks in
storages. Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station started to
utilize
the measure from August 1995.


It may be nothing, but in view of the fact that Zworld has correctly pointed out a whopping great heat source photographed at the CSFP complex, I began to wonder, whether the fact that the reports only refer to status at "the pool" in terms of "stable", and with regards temperature readings (i.e. stabilised at 55 c after the initial power outages) - why not 2 temp readings? Maybe we're just nitpicking?

SFA - somebody - could you possibly help me later with getting imagery tpgether it may take me a few days to edit them, due to other demands. I really don't care if this became the next "it's a gate", but if TEPCO are hiding another accident of that order, at what is perhaps, one of the most politically and commercially sensitive buildings on site, it would surely be quite significant and worth a closer look?

As Des pointed out, prior to F Daiichi, spent fuel was THE elephant in the room...


The green arrow is where the spent fuel pool is huh? Gee, looks familiar somehow... Where do I know that from..



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by curioustype
 


Silverlock, just as I'm going through this, in your post above you said:



IF that can be extended to the common waste pool (located in the building directly inland and uphill from the #4 reactor building)


Take a look at this photo:



I don't think there's any difference in elevation between the CFSP and R4,3..? Just for the record. And looking at the cutaway in the TEPCO pdf I posted this page, it has a basement of some form. As I say, there is what appears to be substantial debris between the back of the CSFP and the fence/mound/hill, so it was surrounded/inundated just like R4 I think?

I think this photo may be the best one to compare with the thermal image, unless someone can find a higher res' version?:

link to source via google ny daily news



edit on 15-6-2011 by curioustype because: Added accreditation of quote to Silverlock



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by matadoor
 


Hi there, what are you saying about the green arrow exactly - I don't follow, I thought we were discussing the CSFP complex, which in that thermal image is the hotspot in the top left quarter (which on a map would be inland from the shore, so West of R4 I think?).



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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NB. Looking at the cutaway in the TEPCO pdf, aerial photos and that thermal image, it seems to me that the CSFP hotspot observed on the thermal image is NOT in the same place as the cutaway appears to show the large pool (#1 I think), which it appears to show is roughly in the middle of the building/complex.

The hotspot appears to be, unfortunately for now, in a part which is not identifiable/cutaway in their diagram. In my interpretatoin of the orientation of the building verses their cutaway, the hotspot would be on the side furthest from the viewer, to the back/right of the model/diagram, somewhere behind that odd beam structure on the roof.

So could the hotspot be pool #2, or something else? It was showing comparible heat as R4 in that image.

edit on 15-6-2011 by curioustype because: typo/grammar

edit on 15-6-2011 by curioustype because: Added better detail about orientation/cross referencing images



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by curioustype
 


Yes Curious, GE and AREVA's market strategy and diversification are stupendous.

Wonder how much money from these corporations line Bill Borchardt's pockets and the other high ranking officials in the NRC?

Sigh...

I've seen death by leukemia first hand. It isn't pretty. There are some things in life that are worse than death.

- Purple Chive



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