It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 939.htm
513
<< 936  937  938    940  941  942 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:31 PM
link   
Sorry for the TRN spam, this will be the last one, pg 580.

I suggest that if you interested there was lively discussions on all these topics back around p400-600 in the thread involving Silver, SFA, and many others who contributed much expertise and insights. What is amazing to me is how many of these posts are STILL RELEVANT and predictive of where we are now. I wish TRN would just come back, lol, but we understand that he's had lots to deal with after the tornadoes. Hope that sometime soon he will join us.

Some of the other TRN posts worth mentioning are:

Status of things:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Corium heating and cooling:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Eureka moment, what was the barge for:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by ikonoklast

It is basically vindication IMO. There is no way the corium from reactor #3 is inside that building. All that is left of the RPV now is a huge vertical piece of pipe. I now believe that the posters who were saying they thought they saw the lid of the reactor in the explosion were probably right.

The actual corium is sitting underneath the building inside the bedrock. Apparently the rock can dissipate enough heat to keep it from moving down, at least quickly. If not, we would already have seen a steam explosion that would have dwarfed the last one. The small amount of steam indicates that the corium is now quite probably solid again, floating in seawater mostly encased in the bedrock. That steam is very hazardous, containing isotopes ranging from strontium-90 to iodine-131 to chlorine-36 and everything in between. A cool, solid mass of corium puts out just as much heat and radiation as a superheated liquid mass of corium. The heat of a meltdown is a reaction, not a cause.

Every shift of the tides is pumping that highly radioactive seawater back out into the Pacific or water back into the cracks around the corium. Seawater levels will continue to rise until everything in that area is dead. Beyond this kill zone, there will be a larger buffer zone that will harbor dying and mutating species, but will still support some kind of life.

I believe, based on TEPCO's actions, that the bedrock is cracked far too much to attempt a repair.

Northern Japan is a dead zone without knowing it. Anything within 50 miles is going to die prematurely, some fairly quickly. It will remain an uninhabitable zone for what is practically eternity.

Other countries... well, I expect there to be an adjustment on the US west coast to deal with higher radiation levels in the water. The air contamination is slowly easing, which makes me believe that it was caused by the initial explosion at #3 and not by continuing contamination of the air. Obviously, the US will be the foremost major country to see widespread effects, although the coasts of China and Russia will see some appreciable contamination as well, probably higher than the US. Smaller countries like North and South Korea will also be affected significantly.

The extent of international effects will be ultimately determined not by #3, but by #1 and #2, and possibly by #5 and #6. The plant will soon become completely unworkable; those brave heroes are going to die. Soon. I doubt they will be able to keep things under wraps after that, and therefore will be unable to get more workers. If there are reactions occurring in those other reactors, they will probably explode as well without human intervention. Ironically, the best case with #1 and #2 will be that they are melting into the bedrock as well, contaminating the Pacific more, but not blowing more isotopes into the upper atmosphere to be dumped on other countries.

The spent fuel pools will be a local problem, not an international one. They will be at least as devastating as the meltdowns to Japan.

We just witnessed the removal of Japan from the status of developed country, and a new era of radiation concerns worldwide.

TheRedneck




posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by zworld
 


zworld, you're finally catching up to where many of us were a month or two ago, and I feel for you. There have been many folks here talking about the feelings your having, feel free, we all pretty much feel the same way. TRN made a post about a month and a half ago about how the corium masses will "breathe" (the huffing and puffing). I will try to dig it up for you. You'll note that much of what we are seeing unfold now was predicted by him early on on this thread hence our references to him over and over again. Silver, okiecowboy, SFA and some others words have also come true, sadly, since none of us want this and would prefer to go about our lives.


Its not just that Wertwog. I have been freaked from day one at the potential of Fukushima from reading here and other forums and one reason I decided to finally start posting somewhere was because people here allowed themselves to think outside the box. But I had no idea how mindboggling outside the box was. Nuclear has never been on my schedule. Something inside me just didn't get it. But now that I see the potential for one massive instantaneous release from Fukushima, I agree with those who said in the beginning that you could have one big chain reaction under the right conditions.

What I get from all of it at this point is that neutrons shoot out from the source, and bounce around until they are absorbed, bouncing off larger atoms. Some go back to the source starting a limited reaction. If the outer surface is like corium, some may never leave the source, bouncing around inside.

And now to raise the questions troubling me.

1) If enough uranium is present in a given area, can a prompt criticality occur, as Arnie has suggested at unit 3, or supercritical event, even if the other source is some distance away. In other words, could the SFP in 4 collapsing and going prompt critical set off the SFP in 3?

2) If yes, can this happen throughout the plant in an even larger scale?

3) And can fog or rain increase neutron bounce as suggested above?

Correct me if wrong (on second thought dont, I hate that sh&%)
there are thousands of TONS of uranium in the reactors or SFPs combined. So one goes critical, megatrillions of neutrons bouncing all over the place on a foggy day, hitting enough other fuel to start reactions and explosions that release more source for the neutron dance and then boom. Im beginning to understand why TEPCO withheld info from the beginning.



reply to post by zworld
 


Yes, there was some discussion about this and from what I recall this 'chaining' was considered possible if not a real danger. With all these reactors melting down in such close proximity we're in a zone that is very unpredictable in this regard. Not only with regard to neutron activity but heat also. Chaos theory at play here! Answering based on what I remember Silver and TRN and others discussing.... may want to verify.

1. Yes, possible, if there is anything left in the SFP in #3 (not certain).
2. Yes, under the right circumstances.
3. Possibly. Rain is usually condensation formed around a particle. Depending on the particle I'm not sure if it would absorb a neutron and be modified by it, or simply bounce - perhaps either depending on the particle. My hunch would be that this isn't much of a danger (I could be wrong!), however the neutron beams that were discussed a while back, if they were being pushed out from several reactors at once could be a major issue! DON'T CROSS THE BEAMS....! Anyways....
edit on 14-6-2011 by Wertwog because: laugh while you can Monkeyboy!



posted on Jun, 13 2011 @ 10:55 PM
link   
I'm back.........I found this on Youtube but can't find any discussion about it here. It says uploaded by the user 13th of June!!!!

I think it could be a bit out outdoor welding. But it could be criticality flashes..What do you think?...


edit on 13-6-2011 by Procharmo because: Additional info


This one is better...


edit on 13-6-2011 by Procharmo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wertwog

Here is one that may help, pg 477

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by zorgon

I just went through it again... the initial flash was at 0:02. At 0:04, 0:06, and 0:08 there were thuds... not explosive booms, but thuds. Three in a row, at roughly 2 second intervals. I believe we were hearing ruptures in the containment, possibly from pressure and overheating.

The actual explosion occurred a little bit after that, a steam explosion as corium hit water. We didn't hear that sound because the video cut off 11 seconds after the initial flash.

So based on that, here's what might have happened. I am giving times, where I can, in seconds after the initial event:
  • 0:00 - There is a pressure release in the reactor pressure vessel.
  • 0:02 - The new stresses cause a second break in the RPV.
  • 0:04 - Another break occurs in the RPV. Corium is now sliding out of its container.
  • Corium begins creating a massive amount of steam, which builds pressure inside the building.
  • 0:28 - The video begins showing.
  • 0:30 - Steam pressure builds up within the building, causing something to ignite, causing the flash. This was probably a small pocket of hydrogen which was mixed with a lot of air. The color indicates that it was in an area which contained other combustible materials (hydrogen flames are almost invisibe). I am assuming at this point that the bulk of the hydrogen was too concentrated to be flammable.
  • 0:32 - The flash ruptures the building and starts releasing the steam explosively, along with anything else in its way. The bulk of the hydrogen begins mixing with outside air. We hear the sound of the first RPV breach.
  • 0:34 - We hear the sound of the second RPV breach.
  • 0:36 - We hear the sound of the third RPV breach.
  • The bulk of the now-liberated hydrogen ignites from the initial flash, causing a horizontal wavefront that triggers the earthquake and tsunami sensors.

The above assumes a distance which would create a 30-second delay between light and sound reception. Would someone please let me know if this is about right? I forget the actual distance.

TheRedneck


Wertwog, please understand, there have been numerous theories around the web since the blast and this is one of them. If you want to know my opinion of this one, I have thought that hydrogen played a part, and have vacillated between steam explosion from corium water contact and prompt criticality in the SFP. But I can see both happening, and for awhile over at PF the discussion concerning steam explosion sounded the most plausible. But Im not qualified to say either way for sure what happened, and I dont think anyone else is either, until they have more data. Currently Im leaning towards prompt criticality after recent research. So if you're waiting for me to say the above must be right Its not going to happen. And I must say that I agree with Matador when it comes to a bit of a herd mentality here. There are alot of theories. Explore and learn. And dont be afraid to look at other viewpoints playing devil's advocate. If the sci folk at PF forums cant agree on one theory to fit #3s explosion, and that particular discussion has dominated half of the 900+ pages, as well as having its own thread, maybe there's more to understand. And at the end of the day, Redneck could very well be right. Or Arnie. Or both. The bottom line is this. Redneck, Arnie, Silverlok and others that came out early on detailing meltdown were way ahead of the herd. Lets stay there and keep supposing 'what if'' and stretching the envelope.
edit on 14-6-2011 by zworld because: same as always



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:35 AM
link   
reply to post by Procharmo
 


The vapor is probably just fog IMO that is bouncing light around so that the site looks glowy.

If we could see it in real-time that would give a better idea I think of what it could be.

:35 There are 2 bright flashes in quick succession, upper right quad (lower section).
:37 There are 2 smaller flashes in very quick succession, almost pulse-like, lower right quad (near center).
:38 One flash, upper right quad (lower section).
:41 Single flash, upper right quad (lower section).

The locations, especially the upper right, is a bit odd for welding I would think.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:46 AM
link   
reply to post by zworld
 


Nope, not waiting, just posting info, although I think you'll come around eventually
It doesn't matter to me if you do or don't. It's plainly obvious that many of the newbies to the thread (and I'm not saying this is you necessarily) have not read important previous posts despite us asking new folks again and again to do so. Bringing some forward in the context of certain discussions seems like something I can contribute and prevent having to re-cover the same ground. As time consuming and annoying as this is I don't really want to waste my time trying to prove something someone else did 300 pages ago much better than I could, that is my motive. I am starting to think that my database is becoming even more important as a way to sort/search/archive links, sources, ideas, predictions on this thread.
edit on 14-6-2011 by Wertwog because: laugh while you can Monkeyboy!



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 12:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wertwog
Yes, there was some discussion about this and from what I recall this 'chaining' was considered possible if not a real danger. With all these reactors melting down in such close proximity we're in a zone that is very unpredictable in this regard. Not only with regard to neutron activity but heat also. Chaos theory at play here!


Thats what I was looking for earlier. I thought it was at one of the anti nuke forums. It talked about spontaneous reactions, yes, and multiple reactors going critical at once. At the time I discounted it but now think it was way ahead of the curve. If thats the one and it was here I cant find it and would love the help if anyone knows where it is.

And beams crossing. Neutrons colliding. This is another area of thought I hadn't considered. Its probably in Wiki but I am so burnt out right now. Would they bounce off each other? react to each other? attract each other and amass? Ten potential release points. Way too many.

edit on 14-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:36 AM
link   
As a re-cap

There is still a huge problem with the apparent force available to powder the concrete at #3 , hydrogen alone would not do it , prompt criticality from the sfp does not fit the blast debris pattern , also a criticality should not be confused with an explosion, it is "merely" the oven dial going from simmer past medium and right to high almost instantaneously...

I love the PF guys but they tend to think "inside the framework" and I was reading over there a while back and watched them spend about four pages trying to figure out a 'box' on the outside of number 4 was when it was obviously a commercial expansion tank and chiller. Now don't get me wrong theirs are some very fine minds there but a knowledge of the math and theory of physics generally takes a lot of real world experience before it con model "way out of the box scenarios" like fukushima. If you can't even get that an expansion tank blew off of the exterior of the building then all the energy that was used to do it is going to be "missing" from the calculations

( expansion tanks are used in overheat situations on closed pumping circulation so that the expansion from overheat does not blow the system apart, is that , rather large heat dissipation system (probably for the #4 sfp)was blown apart and they didn't know what it was , it is a major change inthe volumne and heat energy that go into the calcs for the initial energy.

Now that is just an example of scientific (theory) knowledge, and mathematical modeling ( physics as it is normally done ) not fitting as an applied science ...it is not lack of intelligence it is lack of unbounded frame works and interdisciplinary interactions with applied science and the grunt on the ground that could identify an expansion tank and cooler ( and it's function ) in about 3 tenth of a second .

How many secondary , tertiary, and ancillary systems do you think the reactor cores themselves would have had? and how many of the physics guys have real world experience with thermal and chemical expansion in the wild? ( let alone the possibility of an actual detonation event of some kind. I mean how do the PF guys explain the supersonic wave at three?

Just like that one thing ..opinions are cheap, as the man says we all have one, mine still leans towards a very broken rpv at three, some of the circumstantial evidence is compelling ...

as I have posted before a scale images of the rpv and cv cap , it would not suprise me to find out that rectangular mark in the cv hole is the other half of #3's concrete cap ( we know where the other one is from the drone photos)

as wert had so kindly brought to the fore the roof blast structure and the orientation of things inside the building certainly also point to escaped caps :


and what appears to be rod core bundles and perhaps RPV cap minus it's flange( which it would be ) in the #3 turbine room :



and then we had the intensly high radioactive debris zone all around number three and in the #3 turbine building along with all the debris tracks ( and their layers).

I think that most conclusively is the core material found outside the core ...and not fission by-products actual pieces of core rod that have been identified all around the plant ( and elsewhere ) , where did that material come from ? 1 with the roof still mostly on ? 2 with an intact building ? the SFP at 4 the last ( and only unfilmed ) one to pop? or #3 with the absolutely decimated building? and if it did come from the #3 sfp why is the pool still intact ? an explosion that powdered concrete both above and below it but somehow left it with water holding ( even if empty at the time ) integrity?

Another note is that unless the pool were leaking , even with out cooling it should have taken between 10 and 30 days ( up to 100 by the nrc's informal evaluations) to boil off so from #3's sfp to have gone so radically so quickly it had to be leaking , seriously leaking, which again makes one wonder how a seriously leaking tub could with stand the forces necessary to make the directional cannon on the video...

I was against the idea of three being popped at first , and resisted it pretty heavily , but it is my opinion at this time that the evidence STRONGLY favors a popped rpv, and I have seen nothing from the PF guys that would convince me otherwise ( quite the opposite in fact )

One final consideration are the radiation readings , temperatures and thermal images that were released as the reactor data sets and the ministry of defenses high altitude surveys: they both agree on impossible low temperatures over too small of an area for the core region at #3, if there was a melt at the number three core with as much or more mass than 2 , 1 or the pool at four it's temperature should have been much higher as it was uncooled the longest ( 27 hour if memory serves), , the thermal images alone point to a very small mass left in the core region , unless almost the entire mass was already gone to ground and then the rpv should have acted like a an upside down glass trapping the heat coming from directly under it unless the top was off and then the (mostly there was some debris ) unobstructed air flow would have acted like a cooling tower and that IS consistent with the thermal images.

the first thermal released the red arrow is #4 the green arrow is #3 sfp and teh black arrow red circle is the aera of the #3 rpv:





edit on 14-6-2011 by Silverlok because: damn hardcore woman , there goes the beer money I had to google , bonzai , been a while since I saw that one , classic cult

edit on 14-6-2011 by Silverlok because: ly, ...o.k "..if you gentlemen are finish I would prefer not to spend the rest of winter TIED TO THIS #ING COUCH"



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 01:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Procharmo

I think it could be a bit out outdoor welding. But it could be criticality flashes..What do you think?...


Not good. Not good at all. These events, nighttime releases, have been occurring regularly for a couple weeks, associated with flashes. Many around web say that these releases are the same as always but made more visible do to dewpoint. Others claim its often fog. And the flashes are welding or vehicles bringing in the water storage tanks or taking out debris.

I think that TEPCO has a big problem with #4 SFP, and is maybe doing work, but is there welding going on during the day in those locations. This has been a consistent pattern night after night. Its not some emergency that they have to do at that moment. Why wouldnt they work during the day. Or have they started. Last I heard, they were in the planning stage on buttressing #4, and these flashes have been going on for awhile, when for sure they werent welding during the day.

I also think fog and dewpoint are at play as well, but the dewpoint only makes the radionuclides pouring out of the SFP more visible, which means theres much more coming out than the eyes can see during the day, and the fog only masks the radioactive steam/smoke/vapor, its still pouring out even when the fog is thicker than it.

But the most recent expulsions, and the recent knowledge about spontaneous decay, prompt criticality and the chaotic status of neutron behavior, coupled with the information as to the whereabouts of the CSFP, forces once again thinking outside the box. The steam last night from #4 was some of the worst Ive seen, and the flashes were some of the worst. This is hypothetical...what if there is a greater interaction between neutrons and the increased water vapor from fog and nighttime atmospheric moisture that caused more bounce to occur. And the flashes, which some appear to becoming from west of #4 reactor building, including the brightest one, which puts them closer to..
...yep, the CSFP, could we be seeing cross talk when the conditions are right between these two powder kegs of nuclear hell. And please understand that a couple of days ago I would have thrown that theory to the dogs. Not now. Now I cant get it out of my head, nor can sleep. If the sh#@s hitting the fan, I want to know NOW, not next week.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 02:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by Silverlok
As a re-cap

There is still a huge problem with the apparent force available to powder the concrete at #3 , hydrogen alone would not do it , prompt criticality from the sfp does not fit the blast debris pattern , also a criticality should not be confused with an explosion, it is "merely" the oven dial going from simmer past medium and right to high almost instantaneously...


I agree that the reactor blew its top, and this was the barrel that vectored the blast, but Im not convinced that the cap in whole form left the building. Pieces maybe, but I think more likely in my mind is the RPV and containment exploding like a popped zit, with steam and hydrogen exiting with great force, causing prompt criticality that set into motion something else. What that something else might be I dont know. I dont understand the physical interplay or reactions that might occur.

Is it possible that the corium did hit groundwater, but didnt create an instant steam explosion, instead it gained recriticality and kept moving down while the heat, steam, hydrogen and nuclides reached critical mass and finally blew the lid apart with some of the pressure bolts still holding pieces of the cap in place. The RPV would look like a steel wall that has had a munition blown through it. The cap is peeled back so to speak.




I love the PF guys but they tend to think "inside the framework"


Basically the discussion there has been muzzled. Mods too connected to the industry. We are so far outside the box at this point that soon PF may become worthless, afraid to state the obvious. Thats what makes this forum so important. ATS and OTB.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 02:48 AM
link   
reply to post by zworld
 

The time for that is well past , steam and water vapor will only effect 'in the air fissionables" , like powdered uranium and plutonium that may be around and they are probably too diffuse and too low in general mass collections to go critical in a way that would be noticeable as anything more than an increase in radiation.

Another boom scenario is unlikely at this stage as the materials have had a lot of time to travel fro the cores to where-ever they were going, which at this point is probably somewhere in the basement....once under a huge body of water the corium/poolium would slow to a creep and would now be fairly static as a 'massive' hot plate in or under the reactors as long as they keep them under water

...which is part of the problem, corium is highly radioactive and the water gets so contaminated that they can only re-circulate it for so long before it acquires enough fissionable material in water that it undergoes criticality in that state ( hence the need for all that stupid storage)

A huge explosion would actually be a good thing for the rest of the world at this point as it would stop the 24/7 release of radiation into the air and sea from 3 "controlled" meltdowns and 6 sfp's that have direct access to the environment...though the local cost to Fukushima would be high. the flip side of this is NO ONE that wants to live radiation free is ever going 'home' to fukushima ever again, now so what would a bit more local dusting do ?

the neutron flux might be causing some weirdness , but as we discussed several hundred pages ago the flux density probably isn't as important a factor as coolant contamination from corium deposits , though it is certainly a hazard to humans and IS making things radioactive in and around the plant in way not being significantly measured, or account for in the "projections"

edit on 14-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 02:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Silverlok

the first thermal released the red arrow is #4 the green arrow is #3 sfp and teh black arrow red circle is the aera of the #3 rpv:





Those two heat signatures west of #4 reactor building, that would be the CSFP area yes? Friggin A I never put those together. If thats the case, it fits the map, what is causing the heat. I am really beginning to be troubled over the CSFP, its location and now those heat readings from early on. Please someone tell me those are the hot tubs they put in for the workers.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:06 AM
link   
Here's a really good Youtube VID showing the plant today.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:21 AM
link   
reply to post by Silverlok
 


My main concern now is not whether an individual reactor or SFP goes critical, or causes an explosion, but what happens if all ten of the fuel sources, 3 cores, 6 SFPs and the CSFP, begin to act as individual fuel rods after an outside force causes recriticality. Fukushima is a pool of contaminated water with 10 fuel rods. Currently there are hypothetical control rods in place, there is a distance between each fuel source, the individual pools still contain water, the cores are as we agree probably in basement water (or below). What if something happens to remove the moderators, like #4 collapsing, or even just an earthquake that causes enough movement within one of the SFPs that causes recriticality. I think we have the potential for all 10 sources to then interact, producing an explosion or emission far greater than anything weve ever seen before. And that I dont want to be around to see.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Silverlok


I agree that the reactor blew its top, and this was the barrel that vectored the blast, but Im not convinced that the cap in whole form left the building. Pieces maybe,

pieces? of a solid steel cap ? are you kidding...hmmm...you're not are you ..., well that is not how these type of physical structures from these materials behave and if the concrete cap did not powder ( or even break) which is did not then it is VERY unlikely the steel came apart under the same stress'



but I think more likely in my mind is the RPV and containment exploding like a popped zit, with steam and hydrogen exiting with great force,


what created this "great force" ab initiato? And the booms on the tape are not explosive in origin.The assessment is given a very high degree of certainty, the booms are 'mechanical' or 'structural' in nature so we have one big blast and then a bunch of things getting blown out of the way and making BIG noises



causing prompt criticality that set into motion something else. What that something else might be I dont know.


no , that's not how criticality works, do you understand what exactly criticality is ?

Also how and why should some late stage mysteries force be called upon afterwards is baffling , why is "something else" even necessary at that point? It's far to ad hoc...and mystical thinking , by the time Elvis left the build as Wertwog said nothing was left but imparted momentum and inertia carrying the departing debris and ejecta to it's new summer vacation homes



I dont understand the physical interplay or reactions that might occur.


That is apparent, but you can go back and look over the evidence presented , right? it's pretty thorough , concise
and in a form that is fairly easy to assimilate and does not point to anything other than what occom's razor would suggest...the most obvious explanation is generally very close to the truth if not the truth itself



Is it possible that the corium did hit groundwater, but didnt create an instant steam explosion,

Yes, it could have gotten under teh cv steel and concrete and as the corium burned down to it it heated the material (concrete) that it was burning through with water on the other side of it ( the bottom of it in fact ) and much like the flame not burning a paper cup until all the water boils out of it the concrete may have super heated the water causing surface boiling until the water level under the reactor got low enough to allow the corium to escape or the corium got through and the hydraulic pressure of the water tried to surge through the hole on the bottom as it would have been under several feet of water . this interaction may have temporarily cooled the corium directly on the bottom like a plug , but that would just disperse the mas above it out and around the plug creating a larger concrete burn through spot , after that it would be unlikely there would be another water corium reaction that did not end in a boom



instead it gained recriticality and kept moving down while the heat, steam, hydrogen and nuclides reached critical mass and finally blew the lid apart with some of the pressure bolts still holding pieces of the cap in place. The RPV would look like a steel wall that has had a munition blown through it. The cap is peeled back so to speak.

Several things wrong here. A criticality is just nuclear reactions pumping each other up and creating a lot of heat and radiation, they will go critical lump up , lose neutron density stop fissioning cool a shell start heating from thermal insulating ( from the shell ) go critical again , repeat. Hydrogen does not reach a critical mass unless it happens to be undergoing fusion liek perhaps in the middle of the sun or in a fission fusion bomb.

the shape of the cap make fragmentation ridiculous the bolts would break or the flange would break off but that dome part is going airborn ranger as a dome shape because that shape is tough to destroy in this fashion , you need to understand that unless you had a projectile ( say the core itself) you would have nearly even pressure all across the cap(s)(especially with a super sonic wave ) tearing through either would require something to focus the force and to make it through both would take a very special armor piercing bullet ( like a core of uranium at supersonic speeds) or shaped atomic charge, but unless it weas somehow focus( I know of no conceivable mechanism that was supposedly present that could do the job) that much force would simply shear the rpv from it's flange ( which is how the thing in the photo in my post appears) and launch it whole into the cv cap and they both would go wholeinto the concrete cap ...explaining how the concrete cap ( which was designed to powderize) came out unbroken

"inside the framework" is a reference to physicists' needing to define the internal frame from the external framework it severely limits real world application to most physics 'problems' and solutions

Going back and reading some of the older posts in this thread may be beneficial for you as most of your questions have been rather thoroughly answered, multiple times.


edit on 14-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


That's the plant but that is a mash up of a lot of different video, some newer some older and the voice over is completely wrong that building in the beginning is the #4 reactor building, I hate to think that is where the employees operate out of ;-)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:47 AM
link   
Hey there, I was wondering if anyone in South Australia, Western Australia, or New South Wales had a geiger counter which ran constantly? (ie: Terra-p, Gamma scout, Radex)

I have noticed when I can pretty much draw a line from Northern Western Australia down the coast, across the Bight and up across Victoria, with half decent winds, my geiger counter detects a LOT more radiation, I was wondering if anyone could offer readings along the winds' path.

This is the wind map I am using.. www.bom.gov.au...




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 03:53 AM
link   
reply to post by Silverlok
 


Thumbs up, cheers for the correction dude.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by Silverlok

and what appears to be rod core bundles and perhaps RPV cap minus it's flange( which it would be ) in the #3 turbine room :





I agree that looks hugely like a rod core bundle but it doesn't look like a rod core bundle that has been through a large explosive event and fuel meltdown.

I would suggest it is a new bundle minus its fuel pellets awaiting refueling of a reactor.



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 05:03 AM
link   
why is my last post formatted so strangely?



new topics

top topics


active topics

 
513
<< 936  937  938    940  941  942 >>

log in

join