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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:13 AM

News from Japan re: the radioactive water releases.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:16 AM

Originally posted by SFA437


Disagreement is how the truth comes out. We've had several real world experts with solid backgrounds in this thread and everyone shared what they knew, took apart each others hypothesis piece by piece and when we were all done we had come as close to the actual event sequence as anyone could without actually having a 1M frame/sec HD camera set up.

I simply take issue with an individual simply stating "I am an expert" and posting utter nonsense which new readers might take as fact without any bonafides to back up his/her position other than "Kids playing with firecrackers know this" and a single picture with some overwritten text.

Had this individual mapped blast waves, wraparound, debris vectors, analyzed the IR shots we have access to, taken the pressure and temp readings into account, done a frame by frame video analysis... the reaction probably would have been significantly different.

Everyone here seeks one thing- the unvarnished truth even if the truth destroys our own theories and positions. To muddy the waters is IMO unforgivable as this very action is what TEPCO has been doing since day 1.

I totally agree that disagreement is very important to the process. Its the ganging up and flaming that isn't. Whether someone claims to be an expert or not to me is meaningless. The only thing I look for is data. If a grade schooler comes up with a plausible idea Ill run with it. If an expert comes up with a theory that they demand be accepted as fact when it can't be proven as fact I look the other way until a rationale voice explains it better.

Ive been an environmental investigator for 35+ years. And the only thing Ive learned so far is that there are a million ways to distort truth, but only one way to present it.

And I am now off my soapbox for good (Im afraid of heights) and hope Ive helped and not hurt the situation. I too only want to understand what we're up against, and get to the truth and get that info out to the world. And with all my heart I say "Peace and Love to you all brothers and sisters, and I fear we are in for a rough ride ahead."

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:35 AM
From NHK this morning they state that radiation in 3 is too high for workers to go in. But its this statement that has me puzzled;

"The workers withdrew after measuring radiation of 100 millisieverts per hour near the reactor's containment vessel."

If they can get that close to containment, why havent we seen pictures of it. Or have we and I was sleeping.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:52 AM
Just like I suspected. Get ready for the next plume folks. this is TEPCOs request to the NISA for venting 2.

At Unit 2 of the Fukushima Dai-ichi Nuclear Power Station (NPS), TEPCO is planning to ventilate inside the buildings by leaving the double doors continuously open for the purpose of improving the environment of the reactor building.... By keeping the double doors continuously open, it can be considered that radioactive materials existing in the air inside the buildings will be dispersed to the environment outside the reactors

I keep forgetting to put in links. My bad.
edit on 10-6-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by Silverlok

Finally understood this. Fissionable water. Great! Another marvel of nuclear chemistry. I think you are saying it can achieve it's own criticality or is there enough fissile material in the suspension? does it need other media to act with?
edit on 10-6-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

I just slide back on ( and am heading to 917 to resume my tag along) but wanted to stop quickly for this :

As soon as the fissionable material hits a certain concentration in the solution it goes critical , all liquid , it is exactly like adding salt or sugar to hot water if you had some plutonium hydroxide flakes ( in a non-oxygen storage container as it would be dangerously fire prone otherwise) and started shaking them into hot water , long before the stuff hit saturation it would go critical , especially if the water already has uranium solutions or solids in it.

If they are still pumping nitrogen into those now known to be open to the atmosphere cores it is likely part of the oscillations in heat/radiation is from the formation of plutonium hydroxide precipitants that are dangerous flammables and highly reactive when not in the "neutral" nitrogen environment .

This in some form is happeing with uranium also fact given the seawater 'contamination' and the presence of carbon aluminum and various other ingredience including injected hydrazine (fizzy water) and chloride/ine from sea water the production of radioactive chlorofluorocarbons or/and hydrofluorocarbons ( high atmosphere seekers as in evidence in the speedi map) is certain...and given the various "isms" soups and thermal / mechanical situation at the plant the reactors have become basically radioactive particle chemical production labs and long range dispersal guns, whereas the pools are more of labs and (more of a) short range dispersal tool,

Another thought occurred to me as I drifted off to sleep last night: radiation or hydrogen , either , tend to weaken metals " fatiguing" them and making them brittle over time, and given the weather conditions at Fukushima the temperature and pressures can change drastically in very short periods of time at this time of the year, basically meaning that all those storage tanks represent a dual attack and risk that may not have been taken into account :

1) if the water is kept under pressure so that no airspace is allowed the dark color of the tanks(heating them in the sun ) and general heat and pressure will accelerate the decrepitude off the integrity of almost all the systems , including the metal of the tanks themselves,
but more importantly

2) if there is air space in the tanks ( they are not kept under positive pressure and bled of air ) then the differential pressures from air pressure / heating/ cooling changes in the environment could set the stage for radioactive hydroxide precipitants and releases inside the tanks , meaning that critcalities are possible and even likely in the storage tanks from a source that is very difficult to predict or calculated given the ad-hoc design and implimentation of the tanks placement / connection / construction

for example take an empty two litter bottle and place it ( without it cap ) in the freezer. Leave it over night and puit the cap on it quickly and go set it in the sun the bottle will expand to near bursting ( it may burst if you live someplace hot ) , in the reverse ( open bottel in the sun for a few hours and then capped and in the freezer ) the bottle will completely collapse.

Since these containers cannot change volumne the temperature/pressure changes will create precipitation / corrosion solution zones (remember water vapor has unusual properties when it comes to expanding/ contracting ) that may be able to "charge" up for criticality . only if they can keep the temp of the storage tanks fairly stable of if they have a pressure relief 'bladder' or tank attached can they reduce the possibility of this. (their is a thing called and air breaker that blows out air/gas but keeps in water , but if they are using that it either vents in the air or to a tank , if to a tank under these circumstances then it may be their "oxygen " tank that exploded was something of this nature.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:00 PM
From EX-SKF;

#Fukushima I Nuke Plant: Areva's System Leaks
Good Morning, Murphy.
TEPCO did the test run of the contaminated water processing facility by Areva at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant, and found leaks in more than 10 places. Oops. But don't worry, only minor leaks. Just like they used to have a water puddle or two in the turbine building basements.

Not sure if this is important, as that is why you first test a system, but 10 leaks sounds like alot for a test run IMO.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Destinyone

Originally posted by curioustype
reply to post by Destinyone

So what are we saying, were they tracking Krypton 85 because it and say iodine 129 were easily/accurately monitored indicators of criticality emissions, (because of the values 80-140 found in such events) and in that case was it evidence of ongoing fission events involving uranium and/or plutonium, or was it's significance the criticality of plutonium?

Also, if these were essentially tracers, does that lead one to conclude, that the same plume likely contained rather more disturbing cocktail of alpha and gamma emittors?

BINGO...You win the Kewpie Doll...byproduct of fission, fission...and more fission...the poolium is a cauldron of bad fizzies...with those pesky neutron beams haphazardly shooting around too....yep, just one great big old circus of horrors...

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

they also choose it because it is a 'non-volitile' inert ' noble gas which sounds safe ... and a VERY LOW YIELD PRODUCT at only .3% that's 'point 3 or three tenths of one percent ' of what is produced , so the number will seem "reasonable" or "small" (given the japanese governments newest stance on relaxing radiation exposure levels , I doubt they could find a lower yeild product that was stable long enough to measure)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:15 PM
This is maybe off topic, but maybe not. This link leads to the map for Artic ice cover.

If you notice, we are currently running at the lowest point of ice cover ever at this time of year. But you'll also notice that, all other readings for the past six months have been similar except for mid March to beginning May. Here there was a surge of coldness creating significant ice cover at a time when things are normally starting to heat up. The reason I bring this up is to query 'was this a nuclear winter type event'. Just a thought, nothing prove-able or even my area of expertise.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:25 PM
reply to post by SFA437

OT/...swoon....sorry, just sayin'

Thank You for serving our Country, and stepping on ego toes when needed.

Bright Blessings,


edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:29 PM

Originally posted by zworld
This is maybe off topic, but maybe not. This link leads to the map for Artic ice cover.

If you notice, we are currently running at the lowest point of ice cover ever at this time of year. But you'll also notice that, all other readings for the past six months have been similar except for mid March to beginning May. Here there was a surge of coldness creating significant ice cover at a time when things are normally starting to heat up. The reason I bring this up is to query 'was this a nuclear winter type event'. Just a thought, nothing prove-able or even my area of expertise.
Nuclear winter is theoretical, as the concept has never been tested. But I believe it would be a probable outcome of an all-out nuclear war.

That said, the events in Japan would not cause a nuclear winter to occur, as the winter is caused by large (really large) amounts of dirt and soot in the upper atmosphere.

Nuclear Winter- Wiki

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 12:36 PM
reply to post by butcherguy

Thanks butcherguy, I was thinking more a localized event as winds at that time were pushing up the Aleutians, but it seems that that is unrealistic according to Wiki. It was just a passing thought.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:00 PM
I believe the theory of nuclear winter is dependent upon megatons of dust being lofted into the atmosphere by the enormous energy released in many explosions. The same thing would happen with volcanic ash in a mega-eruption but there would not be any radiation to speak of from that source.

There is a relatively new thread that has been on the home page regarding the situation in Fukushima and a post there bothers me a bit.

Originally posted by ANNED
When reactor fuel melts the reactor containment vessels it is diluted to the point it no longer can produce the heat required to melt material.

US built reactor vessels have 8 inches of steel in the internal containment vessel before you hit external steel containment vessels of steel and concrete. .

The newest reactors will have 12+ inches of steel made in japan with equipment from the old US GE plant.

Oh the china syndrome is imposable as the molten reactor fuel would dilute long before it got anywhere deep.

I reference this thread and post specifically because I am concerned people will read it and think that things aren't as bad as we've come to surmise here. Inknow that people are likely afraid of this megathread and may miss out on a large amount of relevant and crucial data if they were to read that thread but ignore this one.

I know our specialists (the word I've always used instead of expert) are spread thin as it is and do have lives outside these forums, but some input in that thread may be neede to clear up severly muddied waters.

'Melt-through' thread here

Much gratitude to all here, even the agitators (accidental and purposeful), due to the fact that the further clarifications required by these derailing posts may help someone understand that may not otherwise.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:10 PM

snip...The following is copied from the article in the link:

"Tests showed that radiation caused damage to the X chromosome in sperm, Dr Scherb said.
A human sperm cell contains either an X or Y chromosome, while an egg only has a Y chromosome.
...snip... Not sure why radiation would damage the X-chromosome more than the Y-chromosome, and a couple of other things doesn't make perfect sense in this report.

I guess because the X chromosome is much larger than the Y chromosome, so it's a much bigger target for ionizing radiation....snip... Moreover, our results contribute to disproving the established and prevailing belief (UNSCEAR 2000) that radiation-induced hereditary effects have yet to be detected in human populations."

My conclusion:

Fukushima predicted to cause a few million stillborn or impaired children. I don't think this is a headline we'll soon see in MSM.


No and Japan already had a NEGATIVE birth rate ( more deaths than births ) so the population was already shrinking and a disproportionately ( in relation to the rest of the world ) high ratio of the Japanese were 'elderly " with one of the longest life expectancies on the planet ....

from wiki:

Japan has the longest life expectancy rate in the world.[13][14] The Japanese population is rapidly aging as a result of a post–World War II baby boom followed by a decrease in birth rates.

In 2009, about 22.7 percent of the population was over 65,

by 2050 almost 40 percent of the population will be aged 65 and over, ...

The changes in demographic structure have created a number of social issues, particularly a potential decline in workforce population and increase in the cost of social security benefits like the public pension plan.

A growing number of younger Japanese are preferring not to marry or have families.[147] Japan's population is expected to drop to 95 million by 2050,[146] demographers and government planners are currently in a heated debate over how to cope with this problem.[147]

Immigration and birth incentives are sometimes suggested as a solution to provide younger workers to support the nation's aging population.[148][149] Japan has a steady flow of about 15,000 immigrants per year.[150] According to the UNHCR, in 2007 Japan accepted just 41 refugees for resettlement, while the US took in 50,000.[151]

Japan suffers from a high suicide rate.[152][153] In 2009, the number of suicides exceeded 30,000 for the twelfth straight year.[154] Suicide is the leading cause of death for people under 30.[155]

so it would seem we will see the radiation effect not just the physical realm but also the metaphysical social one as well , I suppose in a twisted sense there is at least a very zen like quality to the coming cultural transformation of Japan , I wonder if it will lower the suicide rate or family proclivity rates of those useful under '30' "workers" ( and not social security drawing retirees) ? It almost seems as if a poorly educated corporate lifer has infiltrated at least one aspect of fate looking for a sinecure

average life expectancy: 82.9, source : Source: World Bank, World Development Indicators, first google hit
edit on 10-6-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:16 PM
Large plums of steam right now on reactors 3 and 4.

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 01:46 PM

Originally posted by whoswho69
Large plums of steam right now on reactors 3 and 4.
I just checked your link and it says 'Closed' on the camera window.
Don't they want us to see their 'clean' nuclear energy going into the atmosphere?

NVM , I clicked on one of the groups of Japanese characters and got it to come up. My

edit on 10-6-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:24 PM

3CPO and R2D2 Please!!! Radiation in No. 3 reactor too high for work

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:41 PM
reply to post by Silverlok

Once again you have some brilliant insights, thank you!

Oh Mother Mary. May 31 Tepco they reported that a "gas tank ruptured" , exploding. Fukushima Explosion Explanation More TEPCO BS? which seemed extremely odd at the time. Not saying it was this but possible.

When this water "charges up" could it catch fire? What I'm imagining here is the ocean on fire near the release zones with 'fission water'. Probably unlikely given that mixing with the cooler ocean water would cool and cause the fission water to disperse.

This storage situation is going to be near impossible - we're talking thousands of tons, and I imagine that the AVEDA decontamination unit won't be able to process this volume or will fail due to the amount of Pu/U that is in such fine suspension... just guessing here but the filters would end up stressed beyond belief.

edit on 10-6-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Purplechive
reply to post by Purplechive

Now I know I'm posting myself and talking to myself here...

But the Unit 3 bottom of RPV temperature readings have me concerned.

0n 6/3/11 the temperature was 149.7 Celsius (301.46 Fahrenheit)...and three day later on 6/6/11 the temperature was 177.8 Celsius (352.04 Fahrenheit) an increase of 28.1 Celsius or 50.58 degrees Fahrenheit.

Now I'm kinda excited here...because I can't seem to find other folks addressing this rather large spike in temperature.

Especially after Arnie stated....
"[...] Now, Unit 3 has another problem and the NRC mentioned it yesterday for the first time and it gets back to that saltwater and the effect on iron. They are afraid that the reactor bottom will break, literally just break right out and dump everything. Because it’s now hot and it’s got salt on it and it’s got the ideal conditions for corrosion. So the big fear on Unit 3 is that it will break at the bottom and whatever else remains in it, which could be the entire core, could fall out suddenly. [...]"

So if anyone out there can possibly calm me down...and "Happy Thoughts"...would really appreciate it!!

- Purple Chive

We have seen this behavior a number of times thus far in some form in 1,2 and 3, it was discussed on this thread several hundred pages ago when we were still recieving the the leaked daily , reactor data.

basically at 100C plutonium starts reacting with water as if it was in air ( due to surface boiling and a number of other factors such as surface area and contact time , etcetc, ) once this happens particulate radioactive plutonium gets liberated into the water from is corium or poolium mass.

This is important because in the "mass" ( a solid lump though hot in the thermal sense from 'decay heat' ) "slow" neutrons are not as numerous though the mass is thermally shielded which means that it does heat up over time , but not as fast as when fission is happening .

fission starts happening when plutonium gets into water ( in a mass only a small portion is exposed to the water and is technically not touching it due to surface boiling , so few slow neutrons are produced , and then are directed in the most part away from the mass (hence one source of neutron 'beams') in a "diffuse" quality small molecules or particles that escape from the surface boiling get into and surrounded by water and start producing slow neutrons which will trigger fission or as it is called in this circumstance criticality( once the neutrons /plutonium reach critical density or saturation )

once neutrons get slow they start getting captured by other fissionable materials , most notably uranium that may either be suspended in the water or located as lumps in near by mass . this starts the uranium to begin heating above it's decay heat level and when it hits 200C

( it experimentally has been 250 but at fukushima we see the expected results at 200 in the #3 reactor I have speculated this is due to a higher concetration on plutonium mixed with the uranium as mox)

it begins reacting with water as though it were in dry air , increasing the heat rapidly and releasing radioactive particles , the air or steel temperatures near these events tends to climb up to about 400-450C and then a change occurs either the masses move the water is boiled away (lots of steam )or criticality creates a radiation burst . After these events the 'pent up radioactive energy seems to drop back down to it's 'decay heat levels and begin charging up for the next event .

we have seen the amount of water the type of additives ( including seawater ) and radiation counts in the water lengthen and shorten these times but the oscillation has been there since the beginning

several things can be gleaned from this :

1) there is no way significant ( by this I mean tons of) mass is left in the #3 RPV tube (core, or any of them for that matter , TMI melted 1/3 of it core in about 2-1/2 hours , all of the fuku reactors went 7+ hours with #3 going even longer ), and the evidence seems to indicate the heat increase is from Tepco having to re-circ highly radioactive water for cooling of a corium mass either inthe sv ( torus ) or (at best ) bottom of the secondary , but more likely the basement /and or a bunch of plumbing lines ( that have corium in them)
so no boom , but certainly another burst or radiation and more 'accidental leakage' into the air /water

2) even the pools that can hold some water have enough broken or damage rod sections that radiactive material accumulation in the cooling water is STILL causing the same problems as it was in the beginning , Tepco just has a bigger "resevior" to stockpile before the next "incident "

3) it is very unlikely the rods found on the ground are from the #2 pool, most likely the majority of that material came from the core and pool at #3 , with some of the finer ( dust) and poolium coming from #4's pool(S) (don't forget the dryer pool at number 4), and #1 pool. ( it's why three is showing such 'rhythmic' behavior most of it's material is powered and diffuse and so is about as 'controllable ' as a 'perfect gas would be in terms of Brownian motion with regard to thermal interaction )

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 03:02 PM
Reactor 3 explosion is far too directional to be a square fuel pool. I'm sorry I'm no expert, but in the end it is pretty simple physics. Wide fuel pool, wide spreading explosion. Smaller, longer tube; thinner, taller, more directional explosion. Go watch some Iraq/Afghanistan insurgent/airstrike/eod videos and get an idea for what leads to what. Also look at EFPs which are 'explosively formed projectiles'. These shoot a directional jet of molten copper out at high speed, plus explosion shockwave. They often look nearly identical to the R#3 explosion.

This says it all;

The warnings were stark and issued repeatedly as far back as 1972: If the cooling systems ever failed at a “Mark 1” nuclear reactor, the primary containment vessel surrounding the reactor would probably burst as the fuel rods inside overheated. Dangerous radiation would spew into the environment.

All the cooling systems failed. And there's lots of them in United States too.

Originally posted by jadedANDcynical

Originally posted by ANNED
When reactor fuel melts the reactor containment vessels it is diluted to the point it no longer can produce the heat required to melt material.

US built reactor vessels have 8 inches of steel in the internal containment vessel before you hit external steel containment vessels of steel and concrete. .

The newest reactors will have 12+ inches of steel made in japan with equipment from the old US GE plant.

Oh the china syndrome is imposable as the molten reactor fuel would dilute long before it got anywhere deep.

Fukushima reactors in question started construction in the late 60s and early 70s. They use the GE Mark 1 containment and it's no where near as 'good' as the above. By 'good' I still don't see what we can build that catches 150 tonnes of 2500 degree plus everlasting corium.
Anywho, GE Mk1; The worst of the worst, much earlier in the thread shown to have a 40% failure rate in simulations. The RPV is 6" steel, plus #4 RPV was faulty before it was even used.

Then sprinkle in fault lines, sandstone, mag 9 earthquakes, tsunamis, MOX fuel loadings, running out of diesel, a few chernobyls, the pacific ocean, hydrogen, re-criticalities, poor maintenance, lots of nasty aerosolised/waterborne *iums, human error and a tonne of other things and you have the almighty beast called Fukushima.

Failblog would probably have a video up about it, if the situation wasn't so serious.

edit on 10/6/11 by GhostR1der because: tags

posted on Jun, 10 2011 @ 03:17 PM
Did they spray something on unit 1? Or did we have some other event? Web Cam

edit on 10-6-2011 by Anmarie96 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-6-2011 by Anmarie96 because: (no reason given)

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