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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 915.htm
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posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Purplechive

Radioactive water leak to be prevented for 3 days

Let's all jump for joy!!! Three whole days and gonna be raining too...sure, right...whatever you say TEPCO, especially from this guy...

There is just something about this TEPCO dude I don't like. His eyes...almost like he's jolly about this nightmare. I've personally encountered "evil"...and there is just something about him...

Anyhow around 5:15 AM EST - before it got dark at Fukushima...a lot of steam merrily billowing out all the units. So they can collect some water for a few I believe would you mind collecting up some of this steam while you are at too?

And this "treated" water? Does that mean you can swim in it? Drink it? Put it in your fish tank? Or all you might be able to do is flush your toilet with it?

- Purple Chive

Perhaps they could let the local fisherment back for a bit?

[*sorry, that was perhaps a little crass, anyway you've got to love TEPCO spin:

I read them say in your source:

"The situation is raising concern about the possible overflow of contaminated water." - after all we saw exiting to the sea like some kind of Niagara Falls in the first weeks? And I love that they're "concerned" about it overflowing (presumably out the front doors etc at ground level in those concrete reactor boxes), yet have conveniently forgotten all about the cracks and fractures shown everywhere in the rock/drains/roads/earth and therefore presumably walls of the basement and out into the water table - damn they're good at spin...]

edit on 5-6-2011 by curioustype because: Apology for poor attempt at joke, and more on topic point added

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:15 AM
Good morning fellow collective brain cells (Des hurry back.)

I would appreciate some help from our more nuclear inclined posters. We have new data released from the Ministry of Education and Science that was withheld specifically regarding the Tokyo area after the Unit 3 MOX reactor "explosion." These results are related to Krypton 85. There are more charts at SKF and in Japanese on the ministry site here

Thanks again to the EX-SKF site investigative and translation skills.

#Fukushima Nuke Accident: WSPEEDI Shows Tokyo Was Under Radioactive Plume on March 15

Japan's ever-sneaky Ministry of Education and Science again quietly released 3 sets of simulation maps of WSPEEDI without any press release nor any explanation; this time it was the simulations that they did on March 15. The Reactor 3 that used MOX fuel blew up on March 14 at 11:01AM JST.

Last time, the Ministry put out on May 10 the WSPEEDI simulation done on March 25. That simulation, if disclosed in a timely manner, may have prevented many, many children from developing thyroid cancer in the future.

One set of the maps is about krypton-85 surface concentration. The maps show the band extending well beyond Tokyo and Kanagawa.

That at least proves one thing, that Tokyo and Kanagawa were probably bombarded with radioactive materials on March 15. I remember seeing posts in Japanese message boards that day and afterwards saying people had a metallic taste in their mouth that day, that people started to have nosebleed and fell ill. Both were attacked and dismissed as "malicious rumors".

All the government needed to do was to warm people in Tokyo and Kanto area that day to skip work and school. Shut the doors and windows and stay indoors.

When Hiroaki Koide of Kyoto University testified on May 23 in a government committee (Upper House, government oversight committee), the data he said he had been told by his superior not to publish was the data of radiation in Tokyo on March 15.

But why were the government experts interested in krypton-85? What does krypton-85 represent? And iodine-129? (The simulation maps are only about krypton-85; they are still sitting on iodine-129 maps or any other maps of other nuclides.)

edit on 5-6-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:33 AM
reply to post by DancedWithWolves

Thanks for that - good find, I'll try to look through them later, but two things immediately strike me:

1. That image on your post shows a plume dispersion that looks a very good match, to me, and from memory, to the pattern or reports of those 'mysterious' and 'similar to cesium - but not cesium...' very radioactively hot finds in sewage plants (like that plume stretching over to the north and then down the West/(Koto?) that fleetingly raised some alarm in the MSM a while back.

2. Are they playing their ongoing trick of releasing data on one isotope/contaminent at a time (i.e. why not simultaneously plutonium, uranium, cesium, trilllium, et-al etc...and the entire list of elements/data all together, I don't think we'd like the picture that's why, and I'll guess they choose things that can have their moment in the spotlight without drawing attention to the entire cocktail of health issues (i.e. chosen for more favourable half-lives/alpha/beta/gamma story) that were actually in play at said moment?

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:43 AM

Originally posted by zworld
Hi ATSers. Longtime lurker with some questions. Arnie states in above interview that they can entomb reactors 1,2 and 3 and that the SFP in 4 is the real danger. Acknowledging that 4 SFP is definitely a ticking time bomb standing on shaky ground, what about the other SFPs. How can they entomb SFP 3 with it in the condition its in. Or do they intend to remove the fuel from these other SFPs.

When they entombed Chernobyl, it was all on the ground wasnt it. No hanging baskets of spent fuel to deal with.

Welcome zworld and gratz on your first post. To answer some of your questions with info we've collectively discovered on this thread.

#3 SFP is almost certainly gone when it boomed. Our photo analysts on this thread found that the area where the SFP should be is destroyed and no fuel rods were visible. Given that pieces of rods were found more than 2 miles from the site is also good indication, however these could also be fragments from the core also. Most likely many of the rods powdered from the force of the detonation and some of this would have been carried via wind off site and the rest scattered around the site and closeby.

#2 and #1 seem to be intact. That #1 SFP survived is damn lucky, we shouldn't be surprised at all if it sustained damage. Some of the huge amounts of 'hot' water may be from these attempts to keep the pools full as well as cool the reactors.

As Arnie points out, they will have to empty all the SFP's before entombment. This is due to the high amounts of gamma radiation that SF gives off. Only water can provide adequate shielding. The problem is getting the SF out requires huge cranes that can lift 150 tonnes + and #1 and #4 (#3 doesn't matter now) the cranes are destroyed. Also, lifting out this fuel has to be done underwater to shield personnel and equipment. How they are going to do this is a huge issue. I like your "hanging baskets" analogy. Pretty accurate. Imagine 8 or so reactor cores in each basket.

If #4 topples tonnes of SF will fall to the ground and loose all cooling water and be completely unshielded. Depending on the proximity of the fuel to each other it is possible it could catch fire or form a mass (I think some of it has already -- hence the "poolium" some of us refer to that was seen on the exterior of the building). If this building topples it could be worse than catastrophic for the whole world... and the end of Japan. If you know anyone in Japan and this happens tell them to RUN fast for the nearest plane outathere.

Anyhow, back to entombment. If they can remove the SF, it would be possible to entomb all the reactor buildings using the Chernobyl solution however this will be extremely difficult. Consider:

1. 500,000 men built the Chernobyl tomb. Many of these died. We have 4 of them to build on this site. Japan does not have a conscripted military like Russia. Japan's army is all volunteer. You also gotta remember - each of the reactors at Fukushima is far far bigger that Chernobyl was and carries much more fuel. The Fukushima reactors are some of the largest in the world.

2.A sarcophagus (or multiple sarcophagi) won't prevent groundwater contamination. I like Arnie's idea of a moat, but it would need to go down further.

3. If the corium is in the bedrock (as we think it probably is), it can flow into cracks and fissures and burn it's way through the rock. A tomb will not prevent this escape. In fact the masses could flow through fissures out to the sea or in any direction the rock geology allows. We also discovered that the rock that Fukushima is built on is very porous and sandlike (not like granite) -- super dumb rock to build a reactor on. However, if the masses breakapart to flow into fissures and cracks this might actually not be that bad since if it separates it will be more likely to cool. You still have a huge radioactive kaka shiate site on your hands.

4. If the corium mass burns through at a high enough tempurate and hits groundwater a steam explosion is possible. A tomb will not prevent this and is unlikely to survive such a blast.

5. Any entombment structure has to withstand:

  1. Earthquake, 9.0 +
  2. Tsunami, 45 ft +
  3. High radiation levels, plus withstand UV radiation over several years
  4. Typhoons
  5. Heat

6. It will take years to build 4 structures like this on such a massive scale.

Personally I think the brainiacs at Tepco have a plan to keep allowing the releases as they cannot entomb while it's they are this hot anyway. They will they try to cool the corium masses which won't work because cooling only works when you have rods - water has to get around the rods and in between them to effectively cool. The rods have melted into corium blobs. Once you have a blob (150 tonnes of blob) you can only cool the outside of the blob while the inside can be 5,000 degrees or so. If they can get it cool enough though they will try to cap it with concrete.

Then I think they will try to scrub the site and there is some plan afoot to use it as a nuke waste repository since it's so hot anyway. You'd have to be crazy. In fact they are totally crazy and it's not going to work.

The reality is we are pretty much outside of any operational plan now that we have full meltdowns and containment failures. None of the nuke sexperts really knows what to do ATM. I'm sure many want to wake up from the nightmare. Meanwhile we have 4 dirty bombs going off and will constantly for the next few years.

I'm kinda hoping Godzilla will come and stomp on the whole site and send it down to hell where it belongs! Where is that kooky reptile when you need him?

edit on 5-6-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:38 AM
Huge radioactive leak expected at Fukushima Daichi in the next few days:

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:52 AM
Good Morning Fellow Collective Brain Cells....(Hi DWW)...Yes, the rest of the world, people like us, but with really big titles, are starting to make some much needed ripples...I see this as the tip of the iceberg, of those in the know, finally deciding to tell TPTB, enough is enough. We're moving into "git er done", frame is mind.

Russian Nuclear Expert: TEPCO is concealing information about amount of radioactive pollution in environment

In an interview to the Voice of Russia, an expert in nuclear and radiation security Maxim Shingarkin [former major in the Russian military's secretive 12th Department] commented on the situation in Fukushima:

“In fact, this statement came with a big delay. The operating company deliberately concealed this information. The explanation is simple – the company is afraid that any checking by competent experts would reveal its inability to save the situation. Only recently, foreign experts founded a consultative body for the clean-up of the accident’s consequences. Moreover, the company is concealing the information about the amount of pollution of the environment.”

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:54 AM
Although Arnie has told everyone to leave if the reactor 4 drops through, he did not say ANYTHING about the MOX fuel which I seem to remember being mentioned much earlier in this thread.

Yes, he is saying that it will be very serious but he is saying that the fuel is normal fuel BUT I DONT THINK IT IS. If it is going to be serious with normal fuel, imagine how serious it will be if in reality there is MOX fuel in those reactors?

The Japanese were supposed to convert to at least 40-60% MOX fuel by 2010 and if they have, it seems to me that we are looking at much much more serious situation than Arnie is letting on about. Is it likely that he is unaware of the MOX fuel?

If I am correct about this, then maybe he is just another pawn in the Governments plan, or maybe he just does not want to panic everyone by telling them that plutonium and other MOX fuel will be spread across the globe that will take a lot longer to decay than normal reactor isotopes. He seems to be trying to play down/not tell us of the outcome if these are MOX fueled reactors.

The other point is that if there were extensive tunnels underground from the secret weapons(?) that Japan were making there, then these are now full up. This is where the water went to in the first few weeks, and is why there was not more water leaking out into the ocean. After all, they were spraying sea water on the reactors and it was going somewhere - not all going into the sea as can be seen by the low-ish radiation levels. (compared with the trillion-high tunnel water)

If the cores had melted early on, then the leaked water would have been very very highly irradiated - just like this water they have now 'found' in the tunnels and basements which is trillions of becquerels of radiation. This, surely is the water that has been in contact with the core and that is why it is so radiated.

If I am correct, then this water has been filling up the underground tunnels that were being used by the japanese to make whatever secret things they were making.

Someone please correct me or confirm the MOX thing.

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:00 AM
Having had a few days to reflect on the nuclear events since March 11, I have come to one conclusion. Well many conclusions, but one specifically.

You know ALL those rights and freedoms and privacy and resources citizens around the world have given up in the name of protection from "dirty bomb" terrorists and their like? We need to take them back.

All those rights and freedoms and privacy and resources belong to the world community not the leaders who are sanctioning and conspiring in the cover-up of mass murder. Yes, EPA.usa - that means you too. Just watch and see. We are taking them back because the dirty bombs that have been detonated in Japan are either 1. no cause for alarm based on the handling of this disaster or 2. the real terrorists were our leaders all along. We must conclude it is one or the other.

How dare they intentionally put people in harm's way to protect some industry that is a regulatory sham. People, children are being hit with the silenced nuclear bullets these breathing, perpetual killing machines are spewing - and they didn't warn people to even duck and cover? None of them has? They hid the bullets and allowed them to strike. Over and over, all of those who have had access to this and other pertinent data are guilty of standing children before this firing squad. These deaths will not be some number on a study page. They will be someone's cherished daughter or son. How dare you.....all of you.

Seems they are playing truth or dare with the Northern Hemisphere. Citizens...what say you? Will we continue to be tricked and denied the truth or will we take that dare?

Ask yourself, if this were a terrorist "dirty bomb" that had been set off...what would be the unified Homeland Security response to stop the on-going radiation and clamp down further on your freedoms? Now, when the "state" sets off dirty bombs and they are the perps themselves, what kind of response do we get?

The lunatics and terrorists are running the asylum. How long will we allow that to continue? How many children will be sacrificed to protect the nuclear industry?

The poolium is hitting the fan and it's a lot more toxic and lethal than #. I would pay money right now to send a few of our experts in to take over this fiasco/terrorist attack by the nuclear industry and governments and begin an end to this nuclear explosion that is in forever detonation mode. The current leadership clearly can't handle the truth.


posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:03 AM

Unit 3 Reactor Pressure Bottom Part Temperature...Highest yet

Take a look at the "Pink" on the graph and then the 4th column over after the Date column...

Do believe this is where the corium resides...

Throwing Unit 1 and Unit 2 latest numbers in also...but Unit don't look good. Arnie and the NRC are concerned about the bottom breaking through due to the corrosion the salt water left behind...

If anyone belongs to the Physics Forum...please pass the Unit 3 temperature numbers on to them and see what their stance is.

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:24 AM
I'm so happy to see independent groups of experts banding together to get to the truth.

Marine Scientists Begin Cruise Off Fukushima

Three months after the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Daiichi plant began leaking unprecedented amounts of radioactive isotopes, an interdisciplinary group of scientists will begin measuring the radioactivity in the ocean east of Japan on 4 June. Led by Ken Buesseler of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), the cruise will carry 17 researchers from several countries on a 15-day exped

"We need to trace where the radionuclides are going, and how much is making it offshore," says Steven Jayne, a physical oceanographer from WHOI. The research vessel, Kaimikai‑O‑Kanoloa, will monitor radiation levels over 400 square km, crisscrossing the strong Kuroshio Current that runs northward along the east coast of Japan. The radiation spill, Jayne says, also provides a unique way of tracing the Japanese currents. "It's like pouring dye into the ocean," he says. The Kuroshio Current, similar to the Gulf Stream of the Atlantic, is a crucial factor in fish migration patterns and can slow or speed international shipping in the Pacific Ocean.

The WHOI group will monitor water 300 km offshore, an area with large fisheries for tuna and other seafood.


posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:48 AM
reply to post by Wertwog

Thanks Wertwog. Still not convinced though that SFP 3 isn't a ticking time bomb as well. But either way, the problems at Fuku are mind boggling.

It would be truly nice to get an independent team of experts in there to make an assessment, but as happens, the only people who will be allowed in are going to be industry people they can control.

I have also been following the discussion at Physics Forum and am disappointed there. Alot of knowledgeable people that are missing the forest for the trees. Theyve dismissed Arnie as a fruitcake because of earlier data mistakes that he has since acknowledged and corrected, while avoiding the bigger picture he has accurately predicted. At PF, 4 isnt leaning so theres no concern, its water vapor not steam or smoke coming from 1 so things arent too hot, the situation is bad but dont do critical thinking and speculate how bad. So much for the experts. Of course the mods are in bed with the industry so what would you expect.

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:49 AM
Excellent new video, covering many new stories. Beginning with capture of explosion on TEPCO live cam...

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 11:02 AM
reply to post by zworld

Welcome zworld. I like your writing style.

I read on the Physics Forum, but not posting there. I reserve all my posting for here in the monster thread.

I find the Physics Forum to be a good source for "hard data". But, what leaves me dry there, is the lack of thinking "outside" the box. I find this forum, to be well rounded in both data on all things nuclear, and the willingness of participants to be open minded in overall discussions. I have the attitude of take what resonates with me, and leave the rest regarding the Physics Forum.

Looking forward to your input zworld


edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by zworld

Welcome zworld. I like your writing style.

I read on the Physics Forum, but not posting there. I reserve all my posting for here in the monster thread.

I find the Physics Forum to be a good source for "hard data". But, what leaves me dry there, is the lack of thinking "outside" the box. I find this forum, to be well rounded in both data on all things nuclear, and the willingness of participants to be open minded in overall discussions. I have the attitude of take what resonates with me, and leave the rest regarding the Physics Forum.

Looking forward to your input zworld


Welcome zworld! A short time member myself, but their a lot of brilliant, insightful, considerate folks on this forum - and you don't feel quite as alone in this world when your family, friends, associates look as you cross-eyed when you start talking about Fukushima. "Thought that was over"..."Oh that's just hype"...clueless...

Des glad you're back...

Agree with you about Physic Forum...highly intelligent and have their forte...but I end up feel dumb as crap most of the time...and they into such minucia...but glad they exist for many reference points...when I can understand what the heck they are talking about...

Thanks Des for the video to lighten things up...

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 12:01 PM

Reactor/Spent Fuel Pools Temperature - Units 5 & 6

What the hell is this? Modern Art?

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 12:28 PM
reply to post by Destinyone

Des, have to tell you this, because I sat here doing a double take and then started laughing at myself..

I read this line from you "with really big titles" and my mind thought that last words was something other than titles, and I was trying to figure out why it would matter if someone had really big ones, then read it again and saw that my mind had wandered into the gutter, all on it's own..

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 12:31 PM
Thanks all. And I should clarify that Id know very little right now if not for the PF forums. The following is a good example. Two knowlegeable people I respect from the PF forum, Stolphi;

"So, to simplify the picture, all three reactors are at atmospheric pressure. So they probably have a hole at the bottom, and their fuel is lying on the concrete at the bottom of the drywell, optimistically. And their "primary containments" seem to be leaking like sieves."

and Astronuc;

"The SFPs must be secured in order to eventually access the reactors and cores of Units 1, 2 and 3, which must eventually happen in order to mitigate further release of fission products. As long as the reactor service floors are contaminated and cluttered with debris, it is impossible to begin removing the spent fuel. As it stands, the SFPs have direct communication with the atmosphere, and thus a direct path between released fission products and the environment.

The spent fuel must be removed from the SFPs of Units 1-4 in and placed in casks. That can only happen after the debris is removed, and most likely will have to be done remotely, and possibly robotically."

And that about sums it up. Three ongoing "China Syndromes" that can't be dealt with because of 4 SFPs hanging over them, including two in precarious positions, one with MOX fuel and the other with fresh as well as spent fuel. And these can't be dealt with because they are extremely radioactive and buried in crap. And possibly the only hope is to design and build a robotic crane system that doesnt exist capable of genlty removing radioactive material weighing thousands of tons and covered in water.

This TEPCO calls stable, the IAEA and NRC agree and our government refuses to find out whats really going on or coming our way. How can we stop this madness. I live west coast N Cal and there have been reppeated instances of people feeling tired all the time, waking up feeling heavy, like they were made out of something thicker, and occassional boutes of nausea. The times when its been most pronounced have happened a week or so after problems at the plant, if memory serves. These could be symptoms of low level radiation exposure. Who knows. We dont because the people who should be protecting us aren't. Plain and simple.

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 01:54 PM

Chernobyl plant life endures radioactivity

At least some good news!!! Of course, once humans are out of the picture!!

Article dated September 20, 2010:

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 02:12 PM
reply to post by matadoor

LOL...gonna wash your mind out with soap Matadoor I see you already have 4 stars, so you are not the only one with a mind in the are in good company

I've been reading a lot of articles recently, where people out of sheer frustration are beginning to form their own independent research groups. Coming together out of the scientific community, and political arenas to take some kind of action. It's better than the pablum being fed to us by TEPCO, and the politically driven NRC, with their self serving agenda.

This past week, I took some time to start at the beginning of this thread...again...and, I must say. We as a group have called every single crisis, that TEPCO, in the past three months has had to fess up to. We nailed it all on the head, weeks, and sometimes months before the truth has been forced out of them.

It reads like a laymans' nuclear disaster book. It covers every aspect of the worse man made event to ever happen on OUR Planet. Thank You ALL beautiful, caring fellow brain cells...


edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 02:29 PM

Pro-Nuclear Candidate Wins Japan Poll


Money Talks...

- Purple Chive

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