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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 07:01 AM

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 07:46 AM
reply to post by Purplechive

Gov't didn't release radiation data after accident!

The Japanese government has expressed regret for not disclosing some important results of the radiation monitoring conducted near the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant soon after the accident.

The central and Fukushima prefectural governments collected the data to determine evacuation measures as well as food and water restrictions for residents.

A reading on March 12th, one day after the massive earthquake and tsunami hit the plant, shows that radioactive tellurium was detected 7 kilometers away. Tellurium is produced during the melting of nuclear fuel.

Three hours before the data was collected, the government expanded the radius of the evacuation area around the plant from 3 kilometers to 10 kilometers.

But the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency reported at a news conference several hours later that the nuclear fuel was intact.

The government also failed to disclose the high radiation levels in weeds 30 to 50 kilometers from the plant. On March 15th, 123 million becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per kilogram were detected 38 kilometers northeast of the plant.

The nuclear safety agency says it deeply regrets not releasing the data.

Professor Yasuyuki Muramatsu of Gakushuin University says radioactive iodine has a high effect on children. He says that if the data had been released earlier, more measures could have been taken to protect them from exposure.

Saturday, June 04, 2011 15:27 +0900 (JST)

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 09:16 AM
reply to post by VisionsOfMann

Yes Visions it is incomprehensible what Japan was experiencing immediately after the earthquake, Tsunami and Fukushima's reactors blowing up. A triple whammy. A state of shock. In a way I can understand why this information was not immediately released - panic, hysteria, distress...

But what is that an EXTRAORDINARY, HERCULEAN effort - was not been made to stop this nightmare and still is not being done.

It is all very confusing...

- Purple Chive
P.S. Where is everyone else? Des? DWW? I'm getting concerned that I might be posting too much. My apologies if I am. I joined this forum because of the brilliance all you folks contribute.

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Purplechive

Tera stands for one trillion

At this level things kinda get inconceivable...what do you do with a trillion becquerels?

One Becquerel is defined as the activity of a quantity of radioactive material in which one nucleus decays per second. A trillion seconds is 31,688 years. And they have 720,000 terabecquerels?


TEPCO says contaminated water may overflow

Tokyo Electric Power Company says that, in a worst case scenario, highly radioactive water may overflow from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant as early as June 20th.

The company is set to start operating filters for highly radioactive water from June 15th. However, it warns that if the filtering does not go to plan, highly radioactive water may overflow from a tunnel at the Number 2 reactor.

TEPCO says that by May 31st, 105,100 tons of waste water had accumulated. It contains an estimated 720,000 terabecquerels of radioactive substances. Tera stands for one trillion.

The utility plans to treat 1,200 tons of water per day at a storage facility and transfer the filtered water to temporary tanks. It says it has already set up tanks for 13,000 tons of filtered water and will increase storage capacity by 20,000 tons per month.

TEPCO officials say that in the event the filters don't work properly, the utility will complete an additional underground tank for highly contaminated water by mid-August.

The basements of the reactor buildings and turbine buildings are full of highly radioactive water. The amount is increasing by 500 tons a day due to ongoing injections of fresh water to cool the damaged reactors and fuel rods.

Friday, June 03, 2011 20:15 +0900 (JST)

Would appreciate some help from you folks putting this into perspective..."Happy Thoughts" are always welcomed!

- Purple Chive

Yes!! The brainacs on Physics Forum helped put this huge quantity into perspective!!

Thanks robinson!!
Posts: 79

Re: Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

720,000 terabecquerels of radioactive substances

1 Ci = 37,000,000,000 Bq

Fukushima (in the water there)

720,000,000,000,000,000 Bq

Unless I made a math error, that's
19,459,459 Curies currently in just the waste water there. That doesn't include the material spread out over the land, around the world, or into the ocean from leaking water.

What was the figure for Chernobyl again?


Ah, found it.

Chernybyl released about 1,300,000 Ci of Ce-137 and 2,400,000 Ci of Ce-137

Thanks again Robinson!!

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 03:31 PM
Well lookeeeyy here; I think they may be moving from the denial stage to acceptance!
"NRC afraid bottom reactor 3 will literally break & dump everything.."
Fukushima water has more radiation than leaked into air
edit on 4-6-2011 by xxPUSH0Noo because: added another article

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:25 PM
Very bad news :S

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 08:11 PM

#Fukushima I Nuke Accident: Arnie Gundersen's Interview with Chris Martenson

(h/t Helios)

"Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think"

Part 1
Part 2

Gundersen thinks the melted fuel is at the bottom of Containment Vessels in Reactor 1 and 2; for Reactor 3, he thinks there may be some left in the Reactor Pressure Vessel, causing a local, on-and-off criticality:

Arnie Gundersen: Yes, once the uranium melts into a blob at these low enrichments, four and five percent, it can’t make a new criticality. If criticality is occurring on the site - and there might be, because there is still iodine 131, which is a good indication - it is not coming from the Unit 1 core and it's not coming from the Unit 2 core, because those are both blobs at the bottom of the containment.

Chris Martenson: All right, so we have these blobs, they’ve somehow escaped the primary reactor pressure vessel, which is that big steel thing and now they are on the relatively flat floor of the containment – they concrete piece – and you say Unit 2 is roughly the same story as Unit 1 – where’s Unit 3 in this story?

Arnie Gundersen: Unit 3 may not have melted through and that means that some of the fuel certainly is lying on the bottom, but it may not have melted through and some of the fuel may still look like fuel, although it is certainly brittle. And it's possible that when the fuel is in that configuration that you can get a re-criticality. It's also possible in any of the fuel pools, one, two, three, and four pools, that you could get a criticality, as well. So there’s been frequent enough high iodine indications to lead me to believe that either one of the four fuel pools or the Unit 3 reactor is in fact, every once in a while starting itself up and then it gets to a point where it gets so hot that it shuts itself down and it kind of cycles. It kind of breathes, if you will.

The Fukushima accident is worse than Chernobil, Gundersen says:

Arnie Gundersen: Well, this event is – I have said it's worse than Chernobyl and I’ll stand by that. There was an enormous amount of radiation given out in the first two to three weeks of the event. And add the wind and blowing in-land. This could be – it could very well have brought the nation of Japan to its knees, I mean there is so much contamination that luckily wound up in the Pacific Ocean as compared to across the nation of Japan. It could have cut Japan in half. But now the winds have turned, so they are heading to the south toward Tokyo and now my concern and my advice to friends that if there is a severe aftershock and the Unit 4 building collapses, leave. We are well beyond where any science has ever gone at that point and nuclear fuel lying on the ground and getting hot is not a condition that anyone has ever analyzed.

So the plants, you will see them steaming and as summer goes on, you will see them steaming less, because the air is warmer, but it's not because they are not steaming, you just don’t see it. Because this event occurred in March and it was cool there, so you will see the steam a lot easier. Those plants are still omitting a lot of radiation. Nowhere near as much as on the first two weeks, but a lot of radiation: cesium, strontium, and mainly cesium and strontium – those are going to head south, whether or not there is a tropical hurricane. The wind is going to push it south this time and so the issue is not the total radiation you might measure with a Geiger counter in your hand, but hot particles.

And TEPCO and the Japanese government can't just give up and pour concrete over the mess, because the cores are just too hot:

Chris Martenson: So talk about -- realistically – I mean this is going to be months, years, whatever, it's going to take a long time. What do they do at this point, are they going to entomb these things, are they required to just keep dumping water on these things until they finally cool down, capturing water all the way through? Or is there some way that they can maybe just throw up their hands and just pour a bunch of concrete on it and call it a day?

Arnie Gundersen: I think eventually they may get to the point of throwing up their hands and pouring the concrete on. They can’t do that yet, because the cores are still too hot. So we are going to see the dance we’re in for another year or so, until the cores cool down. At that point, there’s not anywhere near as much decay heat and you probably could consider filling them with concrete and just letting sit there, like we have it at Chernobyl, as a giant mausoleum. That would work for units 1, 2, and 3. Unit 4 is still a problem, because again all the fuel is at the top and you can’t put the concrete at the top because you will collapse the building and it's so radioactive, you can’t lift the nuclear fuel out. I used to do this as a living and Unit 4 has me stumped.


I feel like we have entered a horrifying twilight zone now. These blobs...are breathing. Breathing. How is a breathing blob, possibly cycling criticality, going to ever end?
edit on 4-6-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 08:51 PM
I dont think it can end for another few years yet. In a way, this interview is good because it alerts more people to the problem that has been identified all along on this thread. The more people who understand the seriousness of it, the more we will probably get transparency. The more people who understand the seriousness of it, the less likely will be a mass panic - which seems to be the one thing that governemnts/companies fear more than anything(apart from losing their profit!).

We need to get experts from all over the world together and devise some kind of plan, but thats no good as long as Japan are not releasing the full information. While they are still hiding stuff, no-one has a hope in hell of finding a long term solution.

It is really beyond a witch hunt now because it affects all of us - the whole world. It could have been any country which had this accident as there are lots of countries with reactors near the sea and some near to fault zones too. We really need to get beyond finding a whipping boy and work together to sort this thing out - as far as it can be sorted out, anyway. Whether Japan were doing something 'secret' below that reactor or not, is immaterial now. There wont be much of a world left to dominate (if thats what was in their mind) if we dont find a solution. THEN we can worry about who wants to dominate whom.

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 09:20 PM

Originally posted by qmantoo

It is really beyond a witch hunt now because it affects all of us - the whole world. It could have been any country which had this accident as there are lots of countries with reactors near the sea and some near to fault zones too. We really need to get beyond finding a whipping boy and work together to sort this thing out - as far as it can be sorted out, anyway.

Great points in your entire post. Thank you. I agree - everyone should read part 1 and part 2 of this interview.

People this is serious. This is a catastrophe. And, the solution the leaders have laid out are - trust the food, trust the products, trust us. It's all ok.

It is not going to be ok. What our governments and industries are doing is simply rolling over and accepting this as the new normal in radiation exposure. We have a deliberate cover-up of data and raising of radiation limits...welcome to your new normal. Deadly normal. I am just as horrified at the lack of leadership to search aggressively for solutions and a preference to deny the reality. They are not taking actions now, even today, to stop this spread of more radiation. Why?

Bottom line, Arnie's message is - if the spent fuel pool in Unit 4 falls...get on an airplane and leave Japan. The west coast needs to stay alert. In the meantime, bombardment by hot particles continues in the northern hemisphere. We are so in trouble. As of now, I see a very, very dark tunnel ahead. And the chances of all of us surviving unscathed - are falling. What have we done to our world and ourselves? We are in uncharted nuclear waters here.

I appreciate all everyone has added to this thread as real world takes some of us in and out periodically. It has become abundantly clear that this disaster needs chronicled - as the story tends to become fiction if folks aren't watching and raising the questions that echo throughout the net. We are going to be here a while it seems.

posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 11:35 PM
Hi ATSers. Longtime lurker with some questions. Arnie states in above interview that they can entomb reactors 1,2 and 3 and that the SFP in 4 is the real danger. Acknowledging that 4 SFP is definitely a ticking time bomb standing on shaky ground, what about the other SFPs. How can they entomb SFP 3 with it in the condition its in. Or do they intend to remove the fuel from these other SFPs.

When they entombed Chernobyl, it was all on the ground wasnt it. No hanging baskets of spent fuel to deal with.

I look at the pictures of buildings 3 and 4 and think of the radioactive potential they carry in their upper floors and I shudder.

Also, as has been mentioned here and numerous other forums and indie media, we have a right to know what is in the steam/smoke/water vapor that is constantly escaping Fukushima, but will probably never know, just like independent researchers had the right to investigate the Deep Water Horizon disaster site and were refused. Japan, USA, UK, doesn't matter. Governments worldwide sold out long ago, and its time to take them back..

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 04:57 AM
I say BULL to much of what Arnie Gundersen said in the interview with Chris Martenson. Of most significance is where he claims that the reactors cannoy be buried for another year because they are too hot. They buried Chernobyl right away and it was just as hot as this disaster. There is a very good documentary on You Tube called "Chernobyl disaster (Ukraine 1986) part 1 of 10 " that if you have not seen it, it is a must see for anyone that is serious about this issue. If anyone involved with Fukushima was actually trying to end this disaster, the lessons from Chernobyl would have paved the way and Fukushima would be halfway done already. Don't believe me? Then you haven't watched the Documentary and/or know nothing of Chernobyl.

It is late and I'm tired. I had said before that I thought that Gundersen had been concealing info with half truths and such. Now I am convinced that he is just another talking head for TPTB, and/or one of their "controlled oppositions" put out there for our viewing pleasure to pacify the wild beast that any respectable parent/non parent should be turning into before long. The evidence that supports this is plenty and I will provide it if anyone wants it. In reality, just READ instead of listen to his interview, and analyze everything he says and you will see some of his "errors". Learn about Chernobyl (watch the video) and you will see not only his lies, but many significant lies made by the US, Japanese, French, and Russian governments and the IAEA at the time of Chernobyl and ever since. Some of the same lies and fraudulent actions are being used again with Fukushima. You have to watch this documentary, you will be glad that you did! Quite the EYE OPENER! Once you have seen this video, you will know for a fact that everything done promoting anything nuclear since Chernobyl are both unconscionable and malicious acts of crimminal behavior at the very least.

Good night all.

Good night all.

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 05:19 AM
There came something to my mind....what happens when a meltdown go's all the way down in the earth? What would happend? How far would the fuelrods go? Maybe is there some sollution? Could a fuelrod come in the earthcore? Or would the earth seal of the radiation when you seal off the hole? Just a tought!!!!

new footage:
edit on 5-6-2011 by ni91ck because: (no reason given)

2000 people at the plant for work in high levels of radiation.....this is mass murder...a crime of humanity....poor people...i give a prayer for them....but god shows his other side!!!!
edit on 5-6-2011 by ni91ck because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 05:55 AM

Originally posted by VisionsOfMann
reply to post by Purplechive

You just have to love Tepco. Here is a quote about the water filter plan..

"The company is set to start operating filters for highly radioactive water from June 15th. However, it warns that if the filtering does not go to plan, highly radioactive water may overflow from a tunnel at the Number 2 reactor."

Let's put this statement into reality speak!!

"We have this lame-brained idea. If this latest lame-brained idea fails as severly as our previous 189 lame-brained ideas, we'll dump highly radiated water into the ocean. Oh yes, we also hope that anyone reading this plan flunked basic math as severly as we did. We would rather you didn't figure out that treating 120,000 tons of water at 1,200 tons a day will take 100 days. Now modify that total by including the addition of 500 tons a day of newly radiated water. We also think we can build 1 tank of 10,000 storage a month, but this is a maybe. So a year from now we should have enough storage to contain all the water we now have on hand. This estimate does NOT include any new radiated water we are creating on a ongoing daily basis. But do not worry, the ocean is big, highly radiated water will dilute quickly. Besides, none of these situations is harmful to human health!"

And the IAEA gives them high ratings for the way they have handled this so far!!

Hi guys, I'm still here. Reading every day but often via a mobile which isn't as easy to post from, plus, well new data isn't exactly free flowing yet is it, from Japan at least.

Re: TEPCOs nasty water/flood problems. I have thought about this news, and your great analysis, and have further questions, which of course were omitted in any MSM reporting, sorry regurgitating.

TEPCO themselves and numerous photos have made it clear that the EQ/Tsunami left the entire site/region ravaged by surface and sub-terrainian fractures, earth movement etc...They spent some time earlier on releasing fairly spurious and vague reports about "where's all the water coming from?"/"where's it all going?", which we did a pretty good job of answering as best you can without site surveys etc. (i.e. into the drains, the water table - now raised approx, 40cm, into the sea...)

Surely most of this entire sub-terrainian complex has been partiually or fully submerged from day one, when the Tsunami must have fully filled/deluged them (and the drains). Granted, since then the levels MAY have dropped (at what rate?), but clearly they have been up to ground level in at least the reactors (there were photos of this way back) fairly soon after, either because of the coolant or because they never emptied?

Now, here we have a fresh little PR story whipped up by TEPCO, and as you rightly point out there are numbers that personally I feel are not giving the whole story. My point is this: They haven't indicated, as far as I can see, the loss rate via drainage (which MUST be occuring at some rate) via drains/fractures.

All I am saying is to take that into account when evaluating the story and figures as they unfold. I suspect TEPCO could use this new story to mask or buy time on that other issue (i.e. uncontrolled leakage, etc.). If we don't know the loss rate then surely that gives them wriggle room with the input/removal figures?

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 06:53 AM
reply to post by curioustype

A couple more things.

1). Forgive me if someone else has covered this, but if you take a look at the cutaway diagrams of this reactor design, the sub ground level room appears to me to house the torus/doughnut and the control rods/base of the containment presumably that all flooded both on day 0 and either remained submerged or, if you believe TEPCO, re-filled at some later point, either way now full and with added radioactive nutrients (remember - radiation's good for you!). So did TEPCO really ever have any access to the areas that mattered for control or monitoring at any stage (at least in Rs 1-3)?

2). That's a LOT of weight and water down there, and I just wonder if as I suspect it is seeping out not only via drains but also fractures, I wonder what that's doing to the integrity of the concrete structures and to the surrounding soil/rock? Perhaps it has been largely contained, but if it overflows that may change? Also, I'd imagine filling then emptying those structures with SO much weight/water may cause the structure to 'relax' on emptying, I'd be interested to hear from engineers on that.

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 06:57 AM
reply to post by Purplechive

High radiation levels around ditches in Fukushima

High radiation levels have been detected above roadside drainage ditches in Fukushima Prefecture, which hosts the crippled nuclear power plant.

Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission tested radiation levels in the air about 1 meter from the ground at a business district in the prefectural capital on May 24th and 25th.

The test detected radiation of 3 to 4 microsieverts per hour above ditches covered with mud and fallen leaves. The level reached nearly 100 microsieverts in the mud. It is believed that radioactive dust has accumulated in the mud and leaves.

The results are higher than those in other parts of the city, which were 1 to 2 microsieverts at the same locations.

The commission has noted the need to remove highly radioactive mud and leaves from ditches along busy streets. It calls on people to wear masks and gloves to prevent inhalation of radioactive substances during that work.

Sunday, June 05, 2011 10:50 +0900 (JST)

Sorry for the "Doom & Gloom" outlook, but this only the beginning of the effects of 24/7/365 radiation generated by 3 meltdowns. As one of our very learned posters noted, the laws of physics cannot be broken (or watered down, pardon the pun). The accumilation of radiation in the soil will only increase. And if I were in Tokyo, I certainly wouldn't feel safe. The full extent of radiation showing up in the entire food chain is only now beginning. It is really that simple!!

It is worth remembering that there are 2 other reactors on site (5 & 6). There are a total of 6 spent fuel pools in these reactor buildings. Then there is the common spent fuel pool, which is ,I believe, located behind Unit 4.

Lord have mercy!!
edit on 5-6-2011 by VisionsOfMann because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:00 AM
Thought for the day:

Germany steps out of line via very public ditching/abandonment of nuclear energy policy, almost immediately they sustain the lions share of the 'unusual' e-coli/vegetable outbreak, which, as all Europeans now know, has lead to all of us being asked to thoroughly wash/peel/cook vegetables prior to eating.

That sounds familiar, wasn't Mr Gundersen saying we maybe ought to do that with vegetables for other reasons?

Is it only me that has wondered whether this could have been a 'way' of changing our behaviour to one that overlaps well with the radiation contaminents/ingestion issue, whilst usefully not mentioning/connecting the change in behaviour/story to unhelpfully alarming things like 'cancer' and 'radiation' and 'manmade'?

Did Germany take a hit after jumping from the nuclear bandwagon?

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:03 AM

Radioactive water leak to be prevented for 3 days

Let's all jump for joy!!! Three whole days and gonna be raining too...sure, right...whatever you say TEPCO, especially from this guy...

There is just something about this TEPCO dude I don't like. His eyes...almost like he's jolly about this nightmare. I've personally encountered "evil"...and there is just something about him...

Anyhow around 5:15 AM EST - before it got dark at Fukushima...a lot of steam merrily billowing out all the units. So they can collect some water for a few I believe would you mind collecting up some of this steam while you are at too?

And this "treated" water? Does that mean you can swim in it? Drink it? Put it in your fish tank? Or all you might be able to do is flush your toilet with it?

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:08 AM
reply to post by curioustype

Yeah Curious...the same thing crossed my mind...a "coincidence"...glad that I'm not the only thinking this might be deliberate...punishment...

When you stand up to "evil"...they want retribution, revenge..."How dare you!!" You shall pay dearly...

- Purple Chive

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:21 AM
reply to post by curioustype

Another aspect of exposure to radiation is the loss of clear thinking. When one is under the infulence of radiation sickness, on is not aware of just how flawed their process of reasonong is. Sounds like the folks calling the shots at Fukushima!! Nut they couldn't be suffering from radiation poisining, those white outfits protect them completly!!

posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:58 AM
reply to post by DancedWithWolves

Thanks DancedWithWolves*, I am glad that text got saved in here. One more thing while I'm logged in.

In that interview Arnie sticks to the notion that R4 SFP has yet to 'fall'. Well, Arnie may have better data (emissions?) or experience to draw on to reassure himself of that, or perhaps he doesn't wish to jeopardise his good reputation by openly entertaining what I think, but I don't have those elements on my plate so here goes:

I remain unconvinced that R4 SFP is either in tact, holding water, or indeed hasn't yet collapsed (and remember the fubarium falls?) Anyway, the only real evidence submited by TEPCO to counter all the other imagery that led myself and others to summise it was already in a far worse state/dispatched was the 7 secs video that purportedly showed the inside of the SFP at R4. It looked amazingly good, and free of debris IMO, too good and I saw NO pans in their footage to categorically prove it was indeed R4 SFP (it's not like it was labelled or we'd recognise the wallpaper!). Let's face it, even at that site they had 7 other SFPs (including the 2/split Common SFP) to sorry, for all I know it's already down. As for the others, I share the concerns that it may not even be the only one to have done so, or be at risk...

I don't know where that leaves me/us re: Arnies advice, I'll choose to think he's trying to somehow reassure us [or in some way pick his fights*]?

edit on 5-6-2011 by curioustype because: *added comment for clarity

edit on 5-6-2011 by curioustype because: *oops, apologies, I accredited the post to Purple not'd be forgiven for thinking I was a nuclear power company boss or something! doh!

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