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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 898.htm
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posted on May, 25 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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Brown building to the right just above what looks like a "sand-trap" (golfers know) another "weird light" starting.
edit on 25-5-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 25 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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Greetings. First post. Anyone elso notice the serious crane action in the woods just in front of Unit 3, directly in line with the venting tower??



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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For the love of God. This is delusional.......TEPCO, you are wearing your underwear outside your pants. What is wrong with you people?

ahahayhahahahahahahahaja....underwear on the outside ...hahaahahaha...


There is no honor in this path of deception. None at all.

Silverlok, I need some help here, or others versed in nuclear rodeos, is there any reality in which their statements above could be true? Do you see, with better eyes, any way their "plan" justifies itself and things will improve as they say? Is there a way to cold shutdown this plant?


Sorry if someone already got this one , but I have been out completely for a day or so and am way behind..

NO , there is absolutely no reality to the statements. It's complete monkey shine built by elves and ridden by fairies on unicorns.

The term " cold shut down" refers directly to an intact core being cooled from it's decay heat , which is probably impossible if you have even a little bit of melt down ( and that is a little like someone being kind of pregnant ) and totally impossible in the event of a core breach

and you are totally correct they have been violently raping the word 'stable' for months now ( in fact I believe the word 'stable is now in danger of succumbing to Stockholm syndrome ) , as in the very definition of the word it means "not spontaneously radioactive"

if I was asked to guess at this point what the actual game plan is , I would say that after running 10 weeks of KNOWN "controlled" meltdowns they are now simply trying to keep a steam explosion from happening as the various poolium and coriums burn holes in multiple spots into the 'bedrock' (sandstone) , and that is most likely their actual roadmap to entombment : self burying corium and poolium that they can then pour or dump stuff on top of and try to cover the extent of the actual disaster

This will not work.

edit on 25-5-2011 by Silverlok because: 2 is good too



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


What WOULD work then, Silverlok, in your opinion?

I dont much like the sound of the corium in the bedrock. What makes you think it is in the bedrock and not suspended in water in the wrecks of the reactors?

It is my understanding from what I know that they cannot just bury this thing right now in concrete because then all it would do is create big concrete bombs and they could not get to the hot corium to do anything much to it? It cannot be buried until it is cool. Is this right?



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


Can you send me the screen caps of those pictures? Is that possible or did you get rid of them already? Let me know, thanks.

Pred...



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 




How's that hole comming? to "catch the melted slag" ????

It's only been 3 months.

Itried
edit on 25-5-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by predator0187
 

Those are the original print screen captures,,from the live-cam,,, if thats what u mean?



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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Fukushima Considered for Nuclear Graveyard



Japan’s atomic energy specialists are discussing a plan to make the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant a storage site for radioactive waste from the crippled station run by Tokyo Electric Power Co.

The Atomic Energy Society of Japan is considering the proposal, and building a repository would cost several trillion yen, Muneo Morokuzu, a professor of energy and environmental public policy at the University of Tokyo, said in an interview yesterday. The society comprises more than 7,000 nuclear researchers and engineers and makes recommendations to the government on atomic energy policy.

“We are involved in intense talks on the cleanup of the Dai-Ichi plant and construction of nuclear waste storage facilities at the site is one option,” said Morokuzu, one of 50 people on a cleanup panel that includes observers from Tokyo Electric and the Trade Ministry.

www.bloomberg.com...



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
reply to post by Silverlok
 


What WOULD work then, Silverlok, in your opinion?

I dont much like the sound of the corium in the bedrock. What makes you think it is in the bedrock and not suspended in water in the wrecks of the reactors?

It is my understanding from what I know that they cannot just bury this thing right now in concrete because then all it would do is create big concrete bombs and they could not get to the hot corium to do anything much to it? It cannot be buried until it is cool. Is this right?



I have mentioned a few things that I think are viable directions but in short entombment NOW...(more on that in a second)

about why? The amount of time that has passed and Tepco's basic "management" strategy to date. I do not think that ALL of the escaped material has made it to the ground , in fact I believe , relatively small percentages (may still be in the tons as there are thousands of tons of this stuff at fuku)are as yet in the 'dirt' .

for example the core (RPV) and containment vessel ( CV ) are both semi-spherical at the bottom which would tend to concentrate solids accumulating together rather rapidly (like pouring milk into a bowl ) , but once the cv was breached there is a concrete 'floor' which is flat and would tend to slow things a bit by spreading the accumulating materials ( like pouring milk on a plate ) although the brownian motion of a falling object and the lava like qualities of the material would create a point of higher concentration near the center.

both units 3 and 4 were showing this exact behavior near the end of the thermal images that teh ministry of defense stopped releasing on the 26th of last month.

direct deposition is only one method of core/pool material re-location another is solution transport . Unaium can be suspended in solutions of water in concentration high enough to make it go critical ( but still be a fluid that looks like water ) this system has been in operation as long as they have been pumping water , and it has been transporting fissionable materials to the SV ( torus or suppression chamber ) and the bottom of the reactor(s) building(s) ( and sea among other places )

between these two methods of transport the fukushima reactors have become a great Japanese radioactive nuclear water clock as the materials accumulate in various stages at lower and lower levels until they reach the floor of the reactor 'basements', so that after a certain ( calculable times if one has the data) amount of time has past criticalities are inevitable in waves (like the may8/9th thing), and at some point the amount of concentration in the material will allow the heating and burn through of the concrete floor even will all those thousands of gallons of water in their

the other method of fissionable material release I am glossing over is aerosol re-capture of uranium /plutonium , but I htink that at this late stage of the game most of the aerosols are being venting either controlled or not by TEPCO

the bottom line is that Tepco now has for all intensive purposes transformed the nuclear reactors and storage pools into a radionuclide aerosol generating and fissionable materials precipitation 'machine' open to the environment ( one can think of it as a (multiple) self fueling radioactive smoke ring generator pointing straight up and down



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


If this is entombed now, isnt it too hot? Wouldnt it just be getting hotter and hotter under all that concrete, with no hope of being able to cool is down, and then just melt further down into the bedrock? What if is starts reacting under all that concrete and then explodes? Isnt that just a really big nuclear bomb or 4?

Is getting that heat exchanging cooling system in place as quickly as possible, to cool it down, then burying it safer?

Im just trying to understand, Im not bright, Im no scientist, Im just trying to understand this as best I am able.



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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Here's my new polished turds.
I tried and the colors were really blended together to create a bleed effect. I did what I could.


Thanks to Bobathome for them.






Pred...



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
reply to post by Silverlok
 


What WOULD work then, -snip-. Is this right?



entombment would work but they have not done so
A) because they are ( well were until last week) hoping to salvage something from fuku
and
b) it would show that the plant had /has serious , serious problems ( remember the JApanese government and TEpCO have basically consigned 3,000,000 people in and around fukushima to a slow and painful death sentence, knowingly by their own admissions, so for entomnment to be moving forward it would "set the idea of dire consequences in concrete " so to speak...

NOW what can be done is lead carbonate ( PbCO3 ) or lead sugar (lead (II) acetate (Pb(CH3COO)2)) being added to the leaking cooling water in the cores /cv's this should cause the lead to precipitate out at the Hotest points and thus begin accumulating over the masses of corium /poolium . this will eventual increase the thermal and radioactive intensity of the masses ( driving them down ) but should also help shield the radioactively while at the same time reducing the steam flashover problem (from surface water, sub surface water may still cause an explosion) once the radiation levels are down a bit ( although the temps will be up ) TEpco should get radiators/heat exchangers in the basement water ( preferably plastic ones ) and then begin cooling , once the water temperature is low enough begin dumping concrete in the basements and cv/rpv's .

at the same time tepco should be digging a seawall barricade and building a "brick" wall around each reactor at least ten feet from the current reactor walls that they can begin filling with concrete .

some of the problems are that part of the torus ( sv) actually runs outside the reactor building proper ( under teh interchange building between the reactors and the turbine buildings) and the "hot" water pumping into the turbine building(which) I think Tepco can and does control


edit: I realize I should clarify : yes heat is a problem for explosion , but only if the hot mass can come into contact with something much ,much cooler(this is the controlled melt down theory that Tepco has been using ) , and no it cannot be like an atomic explosion (steam explosions can be impressive but several orders of magnitude smaller than atomic explosions ) , and unfortunately multiple constantly running radioactive aerosol generating nuclear meltdowns and waste pools are a bigger threat to the entire northern hemisphere than a ( or two or three ) local explosion(s) at fukushima , which is screwed for a very very long time anyway ( look to the aboriginal Australians if you want to see how well 'topsoil replacement' is going to work) , would be
edit on 25-5-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


I wont pretend to understand most of that.

So, in short, they should be working towards entombment, cooling it off and as soon as they are cool enough, entomb them in concrete. Do you think the reason why they are not walling them off is because brick walls tend to fall down in quakes - they could start building and those walls would be down in the first 5 or greater quake they had! There are no brick houses here. Also can they get close enough for long enough to start putting up structure? With those radiation figures, I dont think so. Also they only have the unskilled labor pool to draw from. Skilled contractors are not going to want to go near that thing.

So, there is a risk of a huge explosion if we follow this entomb now idea. One which will destroy Fukushima, and hurt the surrounding areas that are full of Japanese people? I agree Fukushima is royally fuked whichever way you roll this, but how big would this bang be? Wouldnt it send a lot of radioactive crap into the air. I get you dont give a rats backside what happens to Japan, but isnt this bad for the US also?

How big a bang? Wouldnt this explosion just destroy the expensive and hard one in lives concrete tomb, and turn it into very dangerous hot shrapnel? As I said, Im stupid, I know I am. I have no idea about any of this stuff. Im a liberal arts grad, turned mother, so forgive me if I sound ridiculous.



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
reply to post by Silverlok
 


I wont pretend to understand most of that.

So, in short, they should be working towards entombment, cooling it off and as soon as they are cool enough,

entombment and cooling should be proceeding hand in had with a out look for cooling the containment at fuku indefinitely



... in concrete. Do you think the reason why they are not walling them off is because brick walls tend to fall down in quakes - they could start building and those walls would be down in the first 5 or greater quake they had! There are no brick houses here. ..unskilled labor pool to draw from. Skilled contractors are not going to want to go near that thing...

The Japanese are the experts and building in quake environments a bunch a bricks should be no problem at all . and as a former mason I can tell you it is not rocket science , practice the form and the speed will come ...they could even simply turn commercial cinderblocks sideways and stack those , but if it was a logistics technical skill problem they could use silo blocks stacked by remote truck


So, there is a risk of a huge explosion if we follow this entomb now idea. One which will destroy Fukushima,

not huge or even as large as we have already seen , so it couldn't even destroy the plant let alone the city several clicks away. But keep in mind given the idea I outline the risk of explosion is EXTREMELY low


and hurt the surrounding areas that are full of Japanese people?

yes unfortunately , but it would be a localized event that could potentially be managed , as opposed to the current situation which is poisoning almost ALL of Japan the Pacific ocean the U.S. and much of the northern hemisphere in general....in a critical situation the decision to cut the losses must be made , tepco /Kan / the nuke industry are choosing hidden slow death for millions as opposed to open admission of unsafe business practices and there effects by pretending that teh local fukushima area is not already dead, in the first week I would not have advocated any risk but now we must weight the total risk long term against short term .


I agree Fukushima is royally fuked whichever way you roll this, but how big would this bang be?

smaller than anything we have already seen


Wouldnt it send a lot of radioactive crap into the air.

Yes but only for an extremely short period pf time ...AS IT STANDS NOW RADIATION IS CONSTANTLY SPEWING FROM THE PLANT INTO THE AIR AND WATER ...after an explosion the fission material would stop creating the extreme health hazard for all of Japan and define a much smaller manageable area to be cleaned...but once again at this point the chances of massive explosions is quite low especially if my idea is implemented ( it is designed to accommodate the thermal explosion problems )


I get you dont give a rats backside what happens to Japan,

Incorrect , let me give you an example : If I were prime minister my choices would be : continue to let tepco pollute my entire country ( and a few other s and the ocean ) for months more or try entombment ( which solves the problem ) even though there is a slight risk of explosion ( which also stops the whole country pollution ) that also stops the bigger issue but leaves us with clean -up in an area that we already have to clean up ?
I think the choice is obvious



but isnt this bad for the US also?
, yes but let me ask you if you were shot with a BB gun 25 times and someone said i am going to shoot you another 25 time in the next day or 5 times in the next second , which would you choose?


How big a bang? Wouldnt this explosion just destroy the expensive and hard one in lives concrete tomb, and turn it into very dangerous hot shrapnel?

not large , relatively speaking but deadly up to several hundred feet. and yes it is VERY dangerous , but unfortunately that is the situation that TEpco and Kan have left us to deal with...in a way it is now a war , lives may very well be lost but better to die working for salvation than for nothing better than hiding some corporations secrets.

incidentally if the reactor remants powdered (from exploding)they could be glued down and immediately covered in concrete , so that would be death not in vain for the people that died trying


As I said, Im stupid, I know I am. I have no idea about any of this stuff. Im a liberal arts grad, turned mother, so forgive me if I sound ridiculous


I live this way ( minus being female or a mother or grad student ) every day and find it highly illuminating



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by predator0187
 


Is it just me or in the second image in the brush upfront, a little to the left of the middle, does that white ghosting not look like Obama rolling his eyes?
it's like a transparent whit splotch. Maybe I'm seeing things.

Pred...



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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quote
"With those radiation figures, I dont think so. Also they only have the unskilled labor pool to draw from. Skilled contractors are not going to want to go near that thing. "

not neccesarily:

www.nzherald.co.nz...


"Former engineers volunteer to enter nuke plant
2:03 PM Wednesday May 25, 2011"


The problem is no co-ordination.



edit on 25-5-2011 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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These poor parents stuck in a nuclear twilight zone - who either can't leave or were led to believe they didn't have to -

Concerned parents in Fukushima snap up free radiation dosimeters for children



FUKUSHIMA -- A swarm of worrisome parents snapped up free radiation dosimeters here out of concerns that the ongoing nuclear crisis at the Fukushima nuclear power plant may pose a threat to their children's health.

The common sight of children playing outside is nowhere to be found in residential quarters of the city of Fukushima, where relatively high doses of radiation have been detected since the accident at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant.

When a citizens' group called "Kodomo tachi o hoshano kara mamoru Fukushima network" (Fukushima network to protect children from radioactivity) started lending radiation dosimeters to local residents for free on May 15, it was flooded with so many requests that they had to stop taking calls after only two hours. With expert opinion divided over the effects of radiation on human health, many parents and children have been dragged into an infinite nerve war.

And evidence the situation is NOT improving:

The mother, who had borrowed the dosimeter, measured radiation inside her house, in the garden and on a farm across the road on May 19. The gauge indicated 3.9 microsieverts per hour when she held it over a potted plant near the entrance of her home. "It was 2.4 microsieverts per hour five days ago. I wonder if the figure would decline if I washed the pot with water. I don't even know how to decontaminate it," she said at a loss.

mainchini



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 12:32 AM
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Mankinds longest thread. Mankinds worst disaster.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


What we have been told time and time again is entombment is dangerous, impossible to do right now, that cooling is the only option.

I understand now that this is a huge, deadly lie. That even in worst case scenario that they entomb and it goes bang, this is still preferable. What they would need to do is evacuate permanently a huge area of land to avoid cililians being at risk.

There are also willing engineers to do so, and they could also build something quake proof with unskilled labour.

So, why the heck are they not doing this? Money, there IS money and wasting it on tarpaulin to hide it is not a good way to spend it. So, not money. These things will never run again either, so they cant possibly be wanting to salvage anything here. So why? Do they want people dead, and why would they want population reduction? Why are they not doing this? I just dont get it.

Silverlok, sorry Im not the brightest button in the box as far as this stuff goes, thanks very much for bearing with me and explaining it to me in laymans terms. Really should have majored in a science subject....

I cant stomach any more innocents being put at risk, or written off. If this went bang and killed another load of kids, let alone mine I couldnt accept that. How the hell do people cope with war and suffering every day, I have no idea.

In answer to your question, Ild rather be shot 5 times every day for 5 days, than 25 times at once. Then again, ive never been shot...so. Put it this way, Ild rather get through 5 quakes which were a 6, than one which was a 9.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by ThousandIslandSunny
reply to silverlok



I cant stomach any more innocents being put at risk, or written off. If this went bang and killed another load of kids, let alone mine I couldnt accept that. How the hell do people cope with war and suffering every day, I have no idea.

In answer to your question, Ild rather be shot 5 times every day for 5 days, than 25 times at once. Then again, ive never been shot...so. Put it this way, Ild rather get through 5 quakes which were a 6, than one which was a 9.



innocent is a difficult condition to apply applicably, but the reactor at fukushima is no in the town of fukushima, and as math is not your strong point the object of my metaphor is that fukushima is spewing a lot of radioactivity every day .... it every bit of it was blown to smithereens today , no civilians would be killed , the 24/7 radiation would stop and in a few hour on one day the dust/radiation levels would be 5 to 7 times higher than normal , but then they would drop rapidly as the source of their creation was destroyed , so by leaving FUKU as it is everyone is getting exposed more everyday IN THE ENTIRE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE.
edit on 26-5-2011 by Silverlok because: cuse




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