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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 824.htm
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posted on May, 2 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by Cyanhide
 




Would it be more helpful to you if the information on this thread were organized chronologically and by subject?


Heck yeah but that would be a MASSIVE undertaking.

Actually now that you got me thinking about it perhaps assigning blocks of 50 or so pages to certain active posters, culling the wheat from the chaff and having a ATS staff member open a "locked" thread so that salient points can be collated and edited to the bare bones for people looking for a "quick fix" or Cliff's Notes version to check in on.

At the same time this would allow us to continue debating what is actually going on and analyzing whatever news snippets and photos we can get our hands on without having to constantly refer back 75-100 pages.
edit on 2-5-2011 by SFA437 because: Massive syntax problems





posted on May, 2 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Moonbeams771
I am sure there is a perfectly boring explanation, but I still feel a little puzzled.


It is the way of things... humans have short term memory and attention span. It may be a survival instinct. Every one is on top of it when the info is coming hot and fast, but soon there is another incident somewhere that distracts, tornados wiping out the midwest, Libya being blasted to the stone age, Bin Laden and Gaddafi's family terminated. Then we have unusual earthquakes in Hawtorn Nv that people are thinking may be the start of Long Valley Caldera... just too much going on and then one has to deal with life.

On top of that you get certain posters who get glee out of derailing a thread and sooner or later you get fed up with it. Medieval Ghost has removed his avatar... I think he is one that is gone and he lives in the area.

For me my Poolium has gotten out of control and its becoming an eco system even had two duck move in
so its time I get back to mundane yard duty. This situation is not changing much at the present so just looking in from time to time will work... its now down to 1-2 pages a day to catch up not 5 per hour.

Quite frankly the news from Japan is a joke... we keep hearing the same efforts recycled... its like seeing reruns. I wonder if ATS is being blocked by any Japanese providers.

MrBill's sideshow keeps saying too much speculation not enough data... yet he has no solution on WHERE to get accurate data as there is no independent source. Too many good threads at ATS end up that way where the good posters have presented the case, then the trolls and derailers come in to kill it...

Then a few months later someone new comes along and starts a thread.. "Guess what I just discovered" and all the work you did month's ago is not even mentioned. It is the way of the cyber world... and people vanish. I have a long list of posters that have disappeared and only a few I know why.

Well time to feed the Ferrets have a coffee and go get a Poolium pump



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by SFA437
Heck yeah but that would be a MASSIVE undertaking.


Working on it... and now that things have slowed down I can start organizing it. This is the work sheet starting with the Tsunami. I have 8 pages of notes so far beyond this one. It will take a few weeks to finish though. I gotz no sexatary to help out


www.thelivingmoon.com...



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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(Hair-brained, half-baked, probably unrealistic suggestion disclaimer)

If the problem is the radiation being too high and it preventing the workers (human or robotic) from getting closer, you need to find some way to diminish or negate that problem.

What if you took something like a directed energy weapon and fused it with something similar to active noise control to make an "anti-radiation" waveform what would negate or possibly reduce the energy in the area of effect.

I know this doesn't take into account gamma particles, but is it possible for the energetic emissions to be dealt with in this way?

Back to the issue of thermal dissipation from the masses of corium, are there any amorphous metals or alloys thereof tht could withstand the temperatures generated and act as a conduit ti wick heat away from the blob?

(/hair-brainedness)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I agree with what you (and DancesWithWolves) have said regarding posters coming and going - especially with a long term disaster like Fukushima.

What I am referring to though is that around 2nd of April, about four of my favorite sources for Fukushima information (here and elsewhere), went quiet. Some have reappeared but none of them have talked about Fukushima again. It's more than likely a simple coincidence but I guess I feel a tiny bit suspicious, especially after reading about the MITA "letters of request", and their campaign to try and censor the "false rumors" that they believe will "incite public unrest".

A few excerpts from the letter from the National Police Agency Ministry of Internal Affairs, Cabinet Office, METI:

To suppress false rumors on the Internet


...word of mouth and e-mail, write to the bulletin boards, etc...

...work together for the site administrator, etc., including information voluntarily remove obscene laws and requested to take appropriate action and make efforts so that accurate information is provided to users


Including the deletion, requested to take appropriate action, provided accurate information to the user


METI



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by SFA437
 


What it would take is someone setting up a separate bulletin board, get a URL (I checked, Fukushima.com is already taken...heheh) and host it. It's not that much work or cost (which can be recovered in Google ads), it just takes some time. The hard work comes in managing it and finding people to help with the admin and moderating bu there seems to be several motivated people on this board to draw from.

Take a look at this guys site. I check it everyday, he only posts 4-5 articles each day but most are relevant. At the top he has sections for specific information, if you want data on building 3, or radiation on the west coast or even cover up issues, you can go to those sections and see what he has linked.

enenews.com...

In a very small, basic nutshell this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

BTW - I never wanted to fight with you. When you came on board I thought you were a breath of fresh air, someone who has specific knowledge in a certain field who could cast some illumination on what was going on. But that didn't mean I would agree with you all the time!
edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


"MrBill's sideshow keeps saying too much speculation not enough data... yet he has no solution on WHERE to get accurate data as there is no independent source."

That isn't what I said, in fact several times I pointed out how good the info is that is posted here. What I said was to stick to the facts. If anything it was the groundless speculation and tinfoil conspiracy theories that were killing this thread. Don't blame the guy who tells the king he has no clothes no matter how ham handed it is done. I'll be the first to admit, Marcus Welby I ain't. (That should date me to the few who go back that far...)


edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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People here want to piss off Tepco? Build a website that is an historical archive of all the information (albeit what little there may be and before it can be flushed down the rabbit hole) including opinion and analysis from around the globe...that the world, and Japanese people, can access.

If you want to screw Tepco, put it all in one place for the world to see. Sunlight is a wonderful thing.
edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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High-Level Radiation Detected in Fukushima Sewage Sludge


The sludge at a treatment center in Koriyama had 26,400 becquerels of radioactive cesium per kilogram. Slag made by reducing the volume of sewage sludge had 334,000 becquerels per kilogram.

Massive amounts of radioactive substances released by the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant may have flowed into sewage when rain fell, prefectural officials said.

The treatment center produces 80 tons of sludge per day, of which 10 tons are transported to a cement company outside the prefecture for recycling. The prefecture suspended sludge recycling Sunday.

An estimated 500 tons of sludge have been provided to the cement company since the nuclear plant was stricken by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, the officials said. Whether they were actually recycled remain to be seen, they said.


I'm not sure if they are saying that the sludge delivered to the cement company has 26,400 or 334,000 becquerels per Kg?

So if my maths is right:

500 tons (US) @ 26,400 per kilo = 11,974,838,568 becquerels (or 0.32 curies) of cesium
500 tons (US) @ 334,000 per kilo = 151,499,728,000 becquerels (or 4.09 curies) of cesium

I hope they haven't been building with this cement.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Moonbeams771
 


IMO it is a good bet it is being used in current construction, maybe the temporary shelters being built for the evacuated. This is not an hysteria, it's a reasonable conclusion based on my personal knowledge of how quickly firms of this nature need to turn inventory.

30 days or less. Any more and you're giving the bank your kids college tuition.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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More condemnation for the increased radiation limits for children:

Physicians for Social Responsibility, a U.S. nonprofit organization of medical experts, has condemned as "unconscionable" the Japanese government's safety standards on radiation levels at elementary and junior high schools in nuclear disaster-stricken Fukushima Prefecture.


The PSR view is also in line with that voiced by Toshiso Kosako, who said Friday he would step down as an adviser to Prime Minister Naoto Kan on the Fukushima nuclear crisis in protest.


"Any exposure, including exposure to naturally occurring background radiation, creates an increased risk of cancer. "Children are much more vulnerable than adults to the effects of radiation, and fetuses are even more vulnerable,"...


The medical experts group is part of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, which won the 1985 Nobel Peace Prize.

"(Twenty millisieverts) for children exposes them to a 1 in 200 risk of getting cancer. And if they are exposed to this dose for two years, the risk is 1 in 100. There is no way that this level of exposure can be considered 'safe' for children," the statement said.

Japan Times

The government's response is?...

The government defended its safety standards for radiation levels at school yards

...government safety standards were "based on the reasoning of the International Commission on Radiological Protection."
Yomiuri

...and...

Ministers have defended the increase in the acceptable safety level from 1 to 20 millisieverts per year as a necessary measure to guarantee the education of hundreds of thousands of children
The Guardian



edit on 2-5-2011 by Moonbeams771 because: ...to add some more info.



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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Moshpet I cannot find the exact image fromhere, i was wondering if you could point at it for me , but I did go back to the ministry of defense page and found a thermal from the 20th of march that I somehow missed.

It has a very revealing picture of the remains of the pool and the core at #3 :


O.k. so one week after the explosion and the pool looks quite hot and seems to be leaking back towards the containment area...and absolutely no heat signature from the rpv central core area , but four nice hot spots that should be about where the torus connection legs are, one of which they have marked at over 128C

When matched to the data from here averaging the top and the bottom temps from late on the 20th gives us a number around 148C so a bit of a difference but close enough that the info from the sensors seems to be accurate , but those four torus mounting points were either accumulation zones or the entire drywell/ rpv structure broke away from the torus at all four points .

It also seems that we have a very similar scenario to #4 wherein the poolium finds it's way into the drywell/torus areas , that could be why we see periodic spikes in the temps from the containments vessels ( which are at thte very least totally empty as of the 3-20)
edit on 2-5-2011 by Silverlok because: 3sir3


(edit) it would seem either Cryptome of the ministry has bad dates as the thermal above claims to be from the 3-20 , but one can clearly see the vent pipe next to three has already been moved , and on the Cryptome pic here dated 3-24-it has not been moved , so I wonder whom has it wrong and why
edit on 2-5-2011 by Silverlok because: challenges



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 


I had a feeling that the turnover rate might be quick. Apparently they create the slag by burning the sludge. Here's a little more:


What's not clearly stated in the Jiji article is HOW they reduce sludge into slag. They BURN it. Talk about environmental hazard. So, not just dioxin but now the radioactive cesium may be spewed into the air.

Additional information from Asahi Shinbun (in Japanese, my summary translation; 3:01AM JST 5/2/2011):

Fukushima Prefectural government is said to be "investigating" whether the radioactive materials spread in the air when the sludge is burned.

There is no manual or guideline as to how to treat the radioactive sludge [according to Asahi, but it is hard to believe there is no guideline].

The cesium amount in the slag, measured on April 30, was 1,400 times as much as the amount prior to the Fukushima I Nuke Plant accident.

There are 80 tons of sewage sludge per day, of which 70 tons are burned in the incinerator and reduced to 2 tons of slag. The remaining 10 tons of the sludge are sent to a cement company.

The Prefectural government will provide the workers at this plant with dosimeters, and will test the other 22 facilities in Fukushima Prefecture.

On May 1, the Prefectural government measured the [air] radiation level at the facility at 1.8 to 3.4 micro-sieverts/hour, which was higher than 1.6 micro-sieverts/hour measured at the Koriyama City Hall Complex 10 kilometers away.

Under the current law on sewage, recycling the sludge is encouraged. 80 percent of the sewage sludge is recycled as building materials [like cement], and the remaining 20 percent is buried in landfills.

ex-skf blog



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Japanese gov’t withheld radiation forecasts to prevent causing panic


Japan’s NHK TV is reporting the “Japanese government is about to begin releasing data projecting the spread of radiation from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant that it initially withheld for fear of causing panic.”





posted on May, 2 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 




This one?

M



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by Moonbeams771

 


I had a feeling that the turnover rate might be quick. Apparently they create the slag by burning the sludge. Here's a little more:


What's not clearly stated in the Jiji article is HOW... May 1, the Prefectural government measured the [air] radiation level at the facility at 1.8 to 3.4 micro-sieverts/hour, which was higher than 1.6 micro-sieverts/hour measured at the Koriyama City Hall Complex 10 kilometers away.

Under the current law on sewage, recycling the sludge is encouraged. 80 percent of the sewage sludge is recycled as building materials [like cement], and the remaining 20 percent is buried in landfills.

ex-skf blog



Sewage? Am I reading that right sewage treatment ? You do realize that implies Tepco has been dumping some of that hot water into the municipal drains...just when you didn't think they could get any sleazier.

I wonder if the increases have a timing that coincides with them having to stop dumping in the ocean?



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Moonbeams771


Sewage? Am I reading that right sewage treatment ? You do realize that implies Tepco has been dumping some of that hot water into the municipal drains...just when you didn't think they could get any sleazier.

I wonder if the increases have a timing that coincides with them having to stop dumping in the ocean?


They've been "injecting water" since the beginning...likely flooding the place...its illogical to assume it would not get into the floor drains, toilets, sinks, and every other open hole connected to city service...

Kind of shocking this hasn't come to light till now though


Does japan recycle its water for consumption?
edit on 2-5-2011 by Jrosh because: another thought



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 08:58 PM
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I'm not sure what to file this story under as it covers three heavy hitting topics under nuclear emergency. The headline could be:

Radiation at waste water treatment plant, or
Fukushima accident in June was early warning or
Kan considers setting up alternative Capital




Prime Minister Naoto Kan says the government and Tokyo Electric Power Company failed to fully address safety issues that had come to light before the March 11 disaster.

An accident last June at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant caused by the loss of outside power and the subsequent drop in the water levels of a reactor was taken up at Sunday’s Upper House Budget Committee meeting.

In response to a question on whether sufficient safety measures had been taken, Kan said nuclear plants operate on the assumption that emergency diesel generators will maintain a reactor’s cooling functions when outside power is cut off.

He said the fact that such a back-up system failed to work properly has serious implications.

Kan said measures were not taken despite previous accidents and warnings, and that he must admit that the utility and the government failed to fully deal with the situation.

He also suggested that he will study the possibility of setting up an alternative capital to take over Tokyo’s role in an emergency, saying that measures must be taken to secure the continuity of the capital’s central functions.

.Cesium found in sludge

Relatively high levels of radioactive cesium have been detected in the sludge from a waste water treatment plant in Koriyama City, Fukushima Prefecture.

The prefectural government is tracking some of the sludge that has been shipped out of the prefecture to be used in making cement.

The prefecture’s investigation found that the sludge contained 26,400 becquerels of radioactive cesium per kilogram.

The solidified slag made from it contained 334,000 becquerels per kilogram, which is 1,300 times the level before the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.


The prefecture says rain likely washed radioactive substances from the surface of the ground into the sewer, and they became concentrated through processing


Source

.

edit on 2-5-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by SFA437
 


What it would take is someone setting up a separate bulletin board, get a URL (I checked, Fukushima.com is already taken...heheh) and host it. It's not that much work or cost (which can be recovered in Google ads), it just takes some time. The hard work comes in managing it and finding people to help with the admin and moderating bu there seems to be several motivated people on this board to draw from.

Take a look at this guys site. I check it everyday, he only posts 4-5 articles each day but most are relevant. At the top he has sections for specific information, if you want data on building 3, or radiation on the west coast or even cover up issues, you can go to those sections and see what he has linked.

enenews.com...

In a very small, basic nutshell this is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

BTW - I never wanted to fight with you. When you came on board I thought you were a breath of fresh air, someone who has specific knowledge in a certain field who could cast some illumination on what was going on. But that didn't mean I would agree with you all the time!
edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-5-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)


I like the enenews site- hit there daily.

No worries brother- I tend to go off the deep end, especially when I hold some deep seated beliefs in a sequence of events that my training and experience tell me went a certain way and I get snarky too.

Apology accepted and extended by me in return


Now let's get back to digging out the nuggets of truth out of TEPCO's mountain of lies. I for one am on the edge of my seat to find out what the REAL rad measurements were (and I'll bet they are downplayed as well).



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