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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 811.htm
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posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by AlaskanDad
reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


MG I have enjoyed many of your posts in my short time here at ATS.

Though I can not say I enjoyed the pictures you recently posted, I think they are very important and need to be seen by everyone. Thanks for showing the true hell that radiation can cause, it is a harsh reality that we all need to face!

thanks!
AD


Thank you. I don't enjoy those pictures, either. But it's important for everyone to see just how deadly and destructive high radiation levels can be. We should never forget the sacrifices those Fukushima workers are currently making.




posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Someone shows a picture of a dude with a sunburn on day one... no problem.

Apoptosis takes time, and your post shows the progression.

Everyone has had a sunburn and can understand if they think about it...

But this is bad to the bone...



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Those photos are from the Tokaimura accident.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by vox2442
reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Those photos are from the Tokaimura accident.


Yes. Thanks for the link.


Same wiki link:


The three operators' doses were far above permissible limits at 3,000, 10,000, and 17,000 mSv; the two receiving the higher doses later died. The most severely exposed worker had his body draped over the tank when it went critical. He suffered serious burns to most of his body, experienced severe damage to his internal organs, and had a near-zero white blood cell count.


Near-zero white blood cell count. Wow.


edit on 29-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost

Yes. Thanks for the link.


Same wiki link:


The three operators' doses were far above permissible limits at 3,000, 10,000, and 17,000 mSv; the two receiving the higher doses later died. The most severely exposed worker had his body draped over the tank when it went critical. He suffered serious burns to most of his body, experienced severe damage to his internal organs, and had a near-zero white blood cell count.


Near-zero white blood cell count. Wow.


Well, he was lying on top of the tank when it went critical. I'm surprised he had any white blood cells at all.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by Chakotay
reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Someone shows a picture of a dude with a sunburn on day one... no problem.

Apoptosis takes time, and your post shows the progression.

Everyone has had a sunburn and can understand if they think about it...

But this is bad to the bone...



Glad you said that. Do you remember when CNN live blog carried this analysis when the three workers were exposed?


[11:34 a.m. ET Friday, 12:34 a.m. Saturday in Tokyo] Three men working near the No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant Thursday stepped into water that had 10,000 times the amount of radiation typical for a nuclear plant, a Japanese government official said Friday, but nuclear experts said the burns suffered by the workers may not amount to much more than a sunburn.

Beta rays given off by radioactive substances don't penetrate deeply into materials, including flesh, said Nolan Hertel, a professor nuclear engineering at Georgia Tech. Consequently, the danger is relatively limited,
he said. "Basically, a beta burn would be akin to a bad sunburn," he said.


CNN live blog March 25

edit on 29-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


oh my... the degree of suffering that person must have experienced


thanks so much for posting these truly nightmarish & heartbreaking pics... i've been ranting so much on my facebook about fukushima & radiation to try & get peoples interest in this crisis.. alas, i may as well be pishing in the wind

i'll not give up though, & i may just link these pics to hopefully get further forward with it

i'm so scared for these poor workers at EVILCO... just...



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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This should be interesting:


About 300 experts from Osaka University, Hiroshima University, the University of Tokyo and other academic and research institutions will start collecting soil samples in May at up to 10,000 locations in 1,500 designated areas, mainly in Fukushima Prefecture, to create a soil-pollution map.


They have a fairly large area , set up ;


...will start its work by dividing the area around the stricken nuclear power plant spanning 100 kilometers north-south and 60 kilometers east-west into 1,500 2-kilometer square zones.


So East? does this mean water/seabed sampling? and 100clicks north and south , I have a feeling that if they are on the up they will be extending those zones in certain directions, but they do intend to do ongoing samples:


Regular updates are important because, compared with the areas around the Chernobyl plant, those around the Fukushima plant are more undulating and rainy, ... Rain causes soil drainage and significant changes in radiation levels over time. The group will also study the effects of soil contamination on human health by using data from health checkups of local residents.


Although I wonder how 'open sourced' this will be and if politics will be coloring the data , as Haruki Madarame, ,a former professor of thermal engineering at the University of Tokyo who is now chairman of the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan seems to have been rewarded for his court remarks (as an expert witness) about the readiness of the nuclear plants in Japan:
(could the back-up power systems fail ?)


"We don't expect it," said Madarame, ..... "We need to draw a line somewhere because we will not be able to build anything if we have to take everything into account."


On a different note it looks as if Tepco is running with the water pouring into the #4 RPV idea ,


Although about 70 tons of water is assumed to be evaporating every day from the pool, company officials said even considering evaporation, the water level is not rising as much as expected. The company checked the reactor facilities, suspecting water might be leaking from the pool, but cannot confirm water leakage into the bottom structures of the reactor building. The utility believes one possible answer is that water pumped into the spent rod pool is flowing back across the damaged gate into the No. 4 reactor well located next to the pool.


Tepco spin on it is Hillarious :


-- As a result, hundreds of tons of water entered the pool and the overheating of fuel rods ended.


See it stopped , no fires no additional cooling necessary , it stopped problem solved , look we said it on the internet so it must be true.

I think Tepco should just paint huge happy faces on the reactors and tell everyone that solved all the problems

The reason they are taking a little time to get #1 shut down at Brown's Ferry is because it appears they haven't gotten around to fixing the valve trouble from earlier this month and is using a 'non-standard' cooling solution :


"The risk would be that you would have to find an alternate path to cool the uranium fuel and we were able to do that," he said, adding that plant operators used back-up pumps to cool the reactor.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Brave photo journalism there Ghost.
Sad but, needed to shake up some people.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by burntheships
Fukushima Daiichi's shoreline to be sandbagged


Tsunami went over and destroyed 13 meter sea walls, washed away three story builings and house and put boats and car onto roof tops..

Of what possible use are a few sand bags against that?




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Yes, I think so too. What are they possibly up to?
Is this perhaps to absorb some radiation going into the sea???



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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That's Primorsky region.

Russia's Far East lifts radiation alert over Japan's nuke plant
(Mainichi Japan) April 28, 2011


mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/archive/news/2011/04/28/20110428p2g00m0dm001000c.html


TOKYO (Kyodo) -- The governor of Russia's Pacific Maritime region said Wednesday the region has lifted an alert issued in the wake of an accident at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Sergei Darkin, the territory's governor, announced the lifting of the alert, saying abnormal levels of radioactive materials have yet to be measured in the Far East of Russia.

(...)


---

2011/04/26 16:03 KST
Japan to allow S. Korean nuclear scientist to be stationed


english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2011/04/26/35/0301000000AEN20110426009500315F.HTML


SEOUL, April 26 (Yonhap) -- Japan has agreed to allow a South Korean atomic scientist to be stationed in the country as part of safety cooperation amid a protracted crisis at the Fukushima nuclear plant, South Korea's foreign minister said Tuesday.

The agreement, announced by Kim Sung-hwan ahead of a press briefing, comes weeks after South Korea began pressing Japan to accept nuclear scientists from Seoul, with safety concerns persisting in the region after an earthquake-led tsunami hit northeastern Japan on March 11.

(...)


---

ASIA NEWS | APRIL 28, 2011
Japan Sees a Role For Foreign Expert


online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704099704576288970995179878.html


TOKYO—Japan may invite a foreign expert to join a government panel to investigate the causes of the continuing crisis at the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, an adviser to the prime minister said Wednesday, as the country tries to increase transparency and reassure the international community about doing business in Japan.

Separately, a female employee of plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. received a radiation dosage above the legal level for women, the government's main nuclear regulator said Wednesday, marking the first disclosed case of a worker at the plant exceeding radiation dosage limits. The company, known as Tepco, said the woman didn't suffer any immediate injury.

(...)

edit on 29-4-2011 by jjjtir because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by SFA437

Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by Moshpet
 


"The reactor is cold, compared to the fuel pool."

Wrong. The top of the fuel pool is open that's why it shows hot, what you call the reactor core is the lid to the primary containment vessel.

It's basic mistakes like this that renders much of the analysis on this thread unusable.


A couple pages ago you agreed with Arnie that the fuel pool underwent a fission explosion which blew the fuel rods all over the place and now you're saying they're all still there which is why it is hot.

Please clarify which side of the discussion you are on.



Dude/Dudette


Wou would have to show me that I did agree, I didn't. I did say an event was possible, but that it wasn't the source of the explosion(s). Big difference.

PG 797 is where where 'Arnie's' vid is.


(Also mods what is the rule for posting from an source in the thread itself, I'm not sure there is an internal embedding thing like the /ext ones, please pm thanks


I am not going to say there could not have been a criticality event(s), but I will say I STRONGLY doubt it was in the cooling pool itself. The audio track of the event tells me it was not just one explosive event. No matter what you call it. I won't say he's wrong about the pool going critical, but I'll say that was a secondary or ancillary effect to the 3 explosions.

I can say this because of fact that it did not occur during 9.1 itself. (Or the aftershocks that directly followed.) But rather that it happened -after- reactor 1's hydrogen explosion, which establishes a time frame for the events.

Its not to say the pool hadn't been damaged by the quake, and could have lost water, and resulted in fuel burning / and the structure containing the rods to become mal-formed.


(From my post on page 799)

Debate with SFA347 is on page 800 over terminology. He has an opinion I have mine :0 But we both agree it was a non-nuclear event.

Page 805 - Two brief discussions over the video and a tell-tale document, you should read the document.

Page 806 - Nuke simulator side note. And following that is what I present as why Mr/Dr/Professor 'Arnie' is wrong as to it being a criticallity event in the pool being the source of the explosion.


Nope, I didn't agree with Mr/Dr/Professor Arnie that it was a nuke event in the pool.

Ok that issue done, On to the next,


Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by Moshpet
 


"The reactor is cold, compared to the fuel pool."

Wrong. The top of the fuel pool is open that's why it shows hot, what you call the reactor core is the lid to the primary containment vessel.

It's basic mistakes like this that renders much of the analysis on this thread unusable.



Wrong. Dead wrong, check the original source where I got the images and date of the images posted inside it.

This is after the date when the #3 went sky high.

1- If the reactor core was intact, present and contained, there would be a complete thermal glow similar to the structure of the reactor. Not just odd hot spots. The reactor would be identifiable. It's not there as a definable heat source or even close. I can tell you right now, that any significant heat source will make a 'ghost' image of its containing structure.

1b- If you doubt that, get on the web and search for ' Thermal images,' and use additional key words, houses, tanks, MILITARY, winter, summer, planes, and any other heat source you can think of.

--------------------------


2- The RPV's lid is -gone-, both the concrete outer access shell and the reactor cap itself. That much us mad bombers firmly agree on.

2a- If the cement lids / and or caps are gone and the core was largely intact the heat source would be centered in the circle. NOT melted blobs or bits off to the edge of it.

2b- The heat source while it would be smaller than the pool would be -much- hotter than the pool, if the core was present and not blown sky high / melted into the bedrock. Simply due to a -lack of cooling-.

2b.1 - Google Thermite, Lava, and super hot materials burning through metals and industrial structures. You could also look up shaped charge munitions for additional information. A core melt is proven to be hotter than thermite.

2c- Since there is no large heat source greater than the pool, as shown in the thermal image, and centered in close proximity to where the core should reside, the core is 1- not intact, 2- likely in chunks all over the place and what remained followed the path of least resistance. Though what was left in containment structure and RCV, melted down into the bedrock. Since TEPCO is not trying to cool the reactor with water, but are trying to keep what is left in the pool cool; the reactor remnants itself does contain any fuel rods, thus no heat source.

2c.1 ITS ALL GONE BYE-BYE. (It's late and I think it makes the point really clear.)

2c.1a- QED: If TEPCO isn't trying to cool the reactor remains, it is an admission that the reactor remnants are scrap metal; and there is nothing they can do to cool what remains of the fuel there. Also it shows that the melted fuel isn't where they could cool it with water. (Even if they wanted to.)

-------------

2d- Since we don't have complete and solid data from what the conditions were 'exactly' at the time of the violent catastrophic failure(s). Us mad-bombers, as we were colloquially tagged, make the best analysis we can of the materials we can obtain.

2d.1- Visual and auditory evidence in the vids, mark several violent moments in the 'blast.'

2d.2- Stage 1 was similar to reactor #1's catastrophic event. (Likely identical to #1's hydrogen explosion.)

2d.3- Stage 2 was likely the concrete external shell of the containment structure popping, 1'st high pressure event.

2d.4- Stage 3 was likely where the flame come from, an incomplete violent burn of a second hydrogen release. Either from the torus being damaged and out-gassing hydrogen or from a rupture in the reactor itself out-gassing 'moments' prior to the next event. The time frame is so narrow as to when it likely happened, it could have been both sources.

2d.5- Stage 4 was the reactor containment vessels guts violently converting from a solid to a gaseous form. (Likeliest fuel for this was a superheated yet violently mixed steam/hydrogen vapor.... Of which I may concede some criticality events may have added to the mixture, but even then, it was not a nuclear explosion. But it was a very 'dirty' event.)

2d.5.a- Due to design of the containment shell and its hardened structure, compared to the 'cap', the path of least resistance was focused entirely upwards. It was also more confined than the hydrogen explosion in #1.

2d5.b- This confinement accelerated the release and is where the blast pulls the debris from the first few stages up an into the vacuum it left behind in its violent upward escape. Giving it its more distinctive 'shaping.'

2d.6- Stage 5 of the violent pressure events was the remains of the core likely going into the area under the vessel that had been flooded due to the tsunami. Fuel source was the super heated remains of the reactor that were not converted to gas, and or shrapnel and launched upwards, and sea water / other chemicals that might have been released in the flooding, in the basement.

2d.6.a- This would account for the building around the reactor being largely demolished as there would be multiple points where the 'fuel' would escape from. Stairwells, broken plumbing, cooling lines etc, resulting in the outer structure of the building suffering over-pressure damage effects. (I consider it unlikely anyone can get through the rubble in the 'basement areas' safely and survive atm.)


------------------


3- Other events as the melted core material down into bedrock and cooled somewhat for a time afterwards would be hard to define or document.

-----------------


4- It is unknown to me if there is steam venting from the points were the core melted down into the bedrock. If enough of the core mass survived the last stage intact enough to melt down to the water table, I'd expect steam from the location were the core melted into the water table. (A violent steam plume has not been reported, that I am aware of.)

4a.1- If we are very lucky, that the mass of the surviving core material is small enough that the melt through is very slow, very slow and may become so diluted with other substances, that the heat from it will not cause a violent steam eruption.

4a.2- If we are not so lucky, the melted core material will get ejected back up the path it burned down though to the water table. Where it would land would be anyone's guess.

4a.3- 2nd worst case event in my book, is that we'll see a radioactive fueled steam geyser that makes Old Faithful seem tame.

4a.4- A volcano could occur, IF and ONLY IF it makes a significant pathway for magma to eventually vent through, and IF and ONLY IF the melt down reaches a magma chamber. Though this would bury the site under a newly formed volcano. I'd call this both a blessing and a curse sort of event. But the chances of it are far less than 4a.3-.

-----------

5. Several important questions remain:

5a.1- Did a significant portion of the core remain intact to land in the ocean? Or did it land in other locations?

5a.1.a- Did enough of the core survive to land in the ocean as a separate super 'hot' melted blob?

5a.1.b- If a significant part of the core survived to land in the ocean, could it be spotted via thermal imaging? Or searching for a continuous radioactive current?

5a.1.b2- Is the draining from the damaged reactors the only source of additional contamination of the ocean? Or can a possible core structure adding to that problem?

5a.1.c- If part of the core made it into the ocean, is the drainage an attempt to cover up its continued existence? (I had to add this for all you conspiracy people... but even then I'm considering it as a possibility.)

5a.2- How much of the core was volatilized?

5a.3- How much of the core remained to melt into the bedrock and later to eventually reach the water table?

I understand the mechanics all too well, the questions I bring up need answers.

If you are not worried yet, you should be.

You may of course feel free to disagree with me. But I feel this is as close as to the events, that people could create an accurate computer model and test it. I'm not talented in that area.

Those of you who are talented in that area, I'd like to see this in simulation.


Frankly, I am concerned.
M.



edit on 29-4-2011 by Moshpet because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2011 by Moshpet because: Clarity



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


70 tons of steam is a lot of hot air that seems to match only what is coming out of Tepco's arse.
Seriously, do you see 70 tons of steam evaporating or is there any way to calculate it.




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Why would they keep them alive so long? I would have put them out of their misery long before the last picture.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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ASIA BUSINESS | APRIL 29, 2011, 1:45 A.M. ET
Some Investors See Tepco as Too Big to Fail


online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703643104576292030964195512.html


By KANA INAGAKI

TOKYO—The day traders and hedge funds that profited handsomely from the volatility surrounding Tokyo Electric Power Co. shares immediately after the quake could soon be replaced by a different breed of investor: long-only asset managers looking to reinvest in Tepco, on a bet that Japan won't let the utility go bust.

For Daisuke Iketani, a 30-year-old day trader in Tokyo, the volatility in Tepco shares following the March 11 earthquake provided a rare golden opportunity: He made a profit of ¥2 million ($24,500) mostly through a flurry of short orders as the stock briefly plunged from the prequake ¥2,100 level to below ¥300, wiping out 80% of its market capitalization. On Thursday, shares rose 3.2% to ¥425.

"If you're a day trader, the temptation is great to invest in a stock like this," said retail investor Yuuki Hakamata, citing the sharp price movements and the massive volume.

(...)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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It's all here: Explosive Disassembly of Supercritical Reactor Core...

Someone threw the Pokemon ball...


(disassembly is a good thing?)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by rbrtj
reply to post by Silverlok
 


70 tons of steam is a lot of hot air that seems to match only what is coming out of Tepco's arse.
Seriously, do you see 70 tons of steam evaporating or is there any way to calculate it.



If it is standard imperial tons about an average swimming pool worth of water , that's a lot of steam , If the pools were fifty feet deep ( like Arnie says) they would have had several hundred thousands of gallons of water in them , but the water is going in so it must be flooding somewhere and if it's pouring into the containment vessel ( not the RPV /core ) then it must be leaking out or they already have the same structural problem that they are concerned about creating at 1

Officials also had lingering concerns about possible leakage in the containment vessel. "The possibility of leakage cannot be ruled out," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman of the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said in a news briefing Thursday. No visible leakage has been found in the containment vessel so far, however. Tepco officials said that any leaks in the vessel should be plugged as they are found before proceeding with a full-scale flooding operation. Leaks could grow bigger if they are left unplugged, as water pressure rises with the injection of water, causing serious contamination, they said. Tepco plans to inject 7,800 tons of water into the containment vessel in the flooding operation.

So at 7800 tons (if that fills the containment ) that's almost 2million gallons, and if #4 was leaking all of it's water into the containment it would have filled it in ten days or so , but lets say only 1/10 of the water was getting into the containment then is should be over half full (at least by now , and I don't think those torsus and other connections , designed for a max of 4 atm's of pressure could handle the mechanical stress of all that water weight, something would be leaking in the basement ..



edit on 29-4-2011 by Silverlok because: nlande very import



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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A gallon of water weighs approx 8.35 pounds, a ton is 2000 pounds
70 tons x 2000 lbs =140,000 divided by 8.35 lbs and you get 16,766.47 gallons approx..
Tepco is telling us that 16,766.47 gallons is evaporating daily.
Any experts on evaporation around ?

wiki.answers.com...




posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Oh my God

That is truly horrific, I had no idea just how bad the effects of radiation were, obviously I knew it was awful but never to that extent, the last picture is really unimaginable, I had no idea.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know so thank you for having the nerve to post it.




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