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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


If the readings were 5,000 Sv/h there would be nobody working on the reactors because they would be dead quickly, faster than the liquidators at Chernobyl. Something seems wrong to me about the number.

Pred...




posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by predator0187
 





As for the 4000 Sv/h, although I am not saying you guys are all full of crap, but the fissioning reactor of Chernobyl that blew up only reached 300 Sv/h.


I agree those numbers are crazy high. maybe that water that has been setting there getting "hot" for several weeks now could read those numbers?? I dunno




so unless this plant is doing something funny the numbers are not adding up.


I do feel something funny was going on at reactor 4...early photos before 4 blew but after 3 blew shows no truck in the fuel bay of reactor 4...but after 4 blows there is a truck parked inside of the bay...what would be the reason in the middle of a accident to drive a truck into the reactor that hasn't had major trouble yet??

and remember the odd barge cargo? maybe that fits into reactor 4 somehow??




I understand the spent fuel, sure, but there is a reason why it is "spent". It is not close to being as reactive as the enriched uranium in the fissioning core


also reactor 4 had a full load of new fuel in the spent fuel pool waiting to go into the reactor

whatever the truth is about the numbers...an effort was made to hide these...in police work...we call that a clue



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by predator0187
 





If the readings were 5,000 Sv/h there would be nobody working on the reactors because they would be dead quickly, faster than the liquidators at Chernobyl. Something seems wrong to me about the number


I think that in alot of the reactors that the buildings/rubble/massive amounts of water and concrete are providing some shielding...one of the other reactors has had readings of 100-400 sieverts per hour as well inside the building..

just like the 900 mSv/h chunk of concrete..it came into contact with something very "hot" for it to get to that level of contamination...my guess is it came from reactor 3...and was thrown where it is from the blast...now if reactor 3 RPV was all good until the explosion according to the official story..then that piece had to get "dirty" during the blast..that only took seconds...or one of those plants has a lot more rads coming off of it than they are saying

again..I have no idea of those numbers are true or not...but something smells in denmark as they say



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by predator0187
As for the 4000 Sv/h, although I am not saying you guys are all full of crap, but the fissioning reactor of Chernobyl that blew up only reached 300 Sv/h.

Those two numbers do not add up as the Chernobyl core was in the process of fission when it was exposed, so unless this plant is doing something funny the numbers are not adding up.

I understand the spent fuel, sure, but there is a reason why it is "spent". It is not close to being as reactive as the enriched uranium in the fissioning core.

Maybe I'm missing something though, which I very well could be.


Pred...


Guys, couple of things...

The spent fuel pool at R4 has many thousands of rods stored there. There are over 600,000 rods on the site, somebody found some numbers back in the thread saying this was the largest of the pools. It was apparently full to capacity of upwards of 80 reactor assemblies, all spent fuel rods are many many times more radioactive in their "spent" state - the fissionable materials are exactly like what a nuclear bomb would produce. I would guess It is highly likely that radiation upwards of 5k/Sv could be achieved if there was a fire or criticality in this pool just due to the shear amount of hot (radioactive) material there. The only unknown I think we have is how many of these assembles were MOX in this fuel pool (did anyone ever get that data?).

Also, the "still hot" assembly from R4 was being transferred to the pool at the time of the quake (correct?). When we see R4, they are most likely referring to the spent fuel pool in R4.


edit on 26-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 03:12 AM
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regarding the radiation levels in reactor 4


The company says the levels of cesium-134 and 137 increased about 250-fold and iodine-131 increased about 12 times compared with one month ago. TEPCO says contamination of this level requires them to prioritize the transfer or disposal of the water

The water level in the No. 4 reactor's turbine building rose by 20 centimeters in 10 days. TEPCO says water used to cool the No. 3 reactor could be leaking into No. 4 as their turbine buildings are connected.


NHK

At least they are admitting they are rising



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by predator0187
If the readings were 5,000 Sv/h there would be nobody working on the reactors because they would be dead quickly, faster than the liquidators at Chernobyl. Something seems wrong to me about the number.


Yes precisely... no one is working on them. The only one we hear a lot about is #2

Not only that...



Radioactive water level unchanged at No.2 reactor


The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says the level of radioactive water in a tunnel at the No.2 reactor is unchanged.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, has prioritized the operation to transport water from the No.2 reactor. The level of radiation there is especially high and the contaminated water is hampering other work to bring the crisis under control.

TEPCO says the water was 89 centimeters below the top of the tunnel at 7 AM on Tuesday. The level has been about the same for the past few days.

TEPCO also says the contaminated water levels are rising in the tunnels at the No.3 and No.4 reactors.

It says water was 98 centimeters below the top of the tunnel at the No.3 reactor, a rise of 3 centimeters in 24 hours. TEPCO has set one meter as the standard level at which it should begin removing the contaminated water.

At reactor No.4, the water was 115 centimeters from the top of the tunnel, a rise of 5 centimeters in 24 hours.

But TEPCO has not found a location to store contaminated water from these 2 reactors. It will continue to carefully monitor the situation.

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:50 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

So see? NO ONE is working in the buildings because the water is hampering them going in, and despite any efforts to pump water out, the level is unchanged and in fact rising in some...

So NO PROGRESS in #2, #3 or #4

Now there latest effort...

TEPCO prepares to fill No.1 reactor with water


Remote-controlled robots are being used to look inside one of the disabled reactor buildings at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, before workers begin pumping more water into the reactor.

Tokyo Electric Power Company is planning to fill the No.1 reactor and then its container with water by mid July, to submerge the fuel rods and cool them down stably.

To prepare for the operation, TEPCO sent robots inside the reactor building on Tuesday morning to check for leakage and other damage.

If no problems are found, the utility plans to increase the amount of water being fed into the reactor on Wednesday, on an experimental basis.

The water feed is due to be increased from the current 6 tons per hour to a maximum of 14 tons.

Workers will monitor changes in temperature and pressure, to see whether the reactor container can safely hold the water.

Robots will then enter the building again, to check for signs of seepage.

The government's nuclear safety agency says TEPCO also needs to determine whether a water-filled reactor container can withstand strong aftershocks.

TEPCO hopes to fill up the No.1 and No.3 reactor containers by mid-July, as part of its recently announced schedule for containing the nuclear accident.

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:49 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

Ummmm really? They hope to fill them by July?

Official: Fukushima radiation release falling


Japan's Nuclear Safety Commission estimates the amount of radioactive release from the Fukushima Daiichi power plant at around 1 terabecquerels per hour as of Sunday. A government advisor says he thinks the amount is gradually falling.

The commission announced its latest estimate on Monday, and compared the level to the 154 terabecquerels per day on April 5th.

Kenkichi Hirose, a Cabinet Office advisor in charge of the Nuclear Safety Commission, told reporters that he believes the amount of radioactive release has been declining judging from the current conditions of the plant.

Radioactivity is measured in becquerels, and a trillion becquerels is a terabecquerel.
A huge amount of becquerels does not automatically translate into a similar level of sieverts, which is a unit for measuring the likely medical impact of the radiation on an individual.

When Japan raised the severity rating of the Fukushima nuclear disaster on April 12th, the commission announced its estimate that 630,000 terabecquerels of radiation had been released into the atmosphere from March 11th till April 5th.

At that time, the Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency offered its own calculation of 370,000 terabecquerels.

The agency said its estimate is about one-tenth of what was released in the 10 days following the Chernobyl accident on April 26th, 1986, and the Nuclear Safety Commission's estimate is even higher.

The figures for Fukushima involve radioactive iodine 131 and cesium 137.

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 12:50 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

I am reading these reports... but they are turning my brain to mush

edit on 26-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 


Maybe reactor 4 had something weird yes, but numbers like that are huge. The reactor core was exposed at Chernobyl, people could physically see it, and the glowing mass was not that high in readings. You can get numbers like that from nuclear bombs, but we are talking about the critical mass when the bomb is hotter than the sun. Someone would notice that.


Could be something new, or could just be misreads or mistakes. The reason you can get huge readings on bombs is because they are allowed to reach critical mass, and reactors, although a hairline underneath it never get to the full potential. It's a "controlled critical mass".

I think it has to be a mistake though because the reading from everywhere around the plant are no where close. I think being exposed to that high of a number would be instant death, you would probably cook. Crazy sh!t!!

Pred...



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by okiecowboy

So contaminated water is leaking from reactor # 3 into a supposedly empty reactor #4, but it's raising the temperature?

Ummmm






edit on 26-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by predator0187
Maybe reactor 4 had something weird yes, but numbers like that are huge. The reactor core was exposed at Chernobyl, people could physically see it, and the glowing mass was not that high in readings.


The surface of the molten corium under Chernobyl... 10 years later when they went back in...



How much is that in sieverts?



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by predator0187
I think it has to be a mistake though because the reading from everywhere around the plant are no where close. I think being exposed to that high of a number would be instant death, you would probably cook. Crazy sh!t!!


You forget that the other readings are released to the public, while THIS set from #4 was NOT available to the public. And it shows a slow but steady decline over the time period



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by Wertwog
When we see R4, they are most likely referring to the spent fuel pool in R4.


Except that the numbers are under S/C Suppression Chamber





posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by Wertwog

Guys, couple of things...

The spent fuel pool at R4 has many thousands of rods stored there. There are over 600,000 rods on the site, somebody found some numbers back in the thread saying this was the largest of the pools. It was apparently full to capacity of upwards of 80 reactor assemblies, all spent fuel rods are many many times more radioactive in their "spent" state - the fissionable materials are exactly like what a nuclear bomb would produce. I would guess It is highly likely that radiation upwards of 5k/Sv could be achieved if there was a fire or criticality in this pool just due to the shear amount of hot (radioactive) material there. The only unknown I think we have is how many of these assembles were MOX in this fuel pool (did anyone ever get that data?).

Also, the "still hot" assembly from R4 was being transferred to the pool at the time of the quake (correct?). When we see R4, they are most likely referring to the spent fuel pool in R4.


edit on 26-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods.  Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings.  One “common pool” is at ground level in a separate building.  Each “reactor top” pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies.  The common pool holds 6291 fuel rod assemblies.  [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.]  Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods.


my.firedoglake.com...

The spent fuel pool at reactor 4 is the same as the others, the shared pool is the largest and it is not connected to any reactor.

The spent fuel is not as radioactive as the enriched ones in the reactor core. If they became more radioactive over time then why not just keep them in the reactor? Enriching uranium means separating the U235 from the 238, trying to get higher concentrations of the 235. The highest are weapons grade and the lower concentrations are used for fuel. When most of the highly radioactive Uranium 235 is depleted, they need to be replaced with better more enriched rods.

The spent fuel pools are bad but unless they have melted into one molten mass, we can't see numbers that high. We are talking being at ground zero radiation here, for a bomb not a reactor.

I will read more on this and try and figure out more info, I study particle physics so this is part but not a lot. I'll bring out some books.


Pred...



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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You forget that the #4 pool has the active rods from the reactor that they took out and the new ones they were going to put in...

But its all poolium by now anyway.

And what do your books say on how long fuel rods inside a reactor will last with no water?



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

You forget that the other readings are released to the public, while THIS set from #4 was NOT available to the public. And it shows a slow but steady decline over the time period


You could not hide this. The readings would be so high everywhere, there could be no one anywhere near the reactors. We would have higher fallout in NA and Tokyo would notice a spike like that.

I saw the numbers and went to the link, I'm just having a hard time grasping the numbers. We would see the glow of the sun when it went dark at night.

I could be wrong though.
But, I doubt it. I'll bring out textbooks tomorrow.


Pred...



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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Yeah past my nap time


See ya tomorrow



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:10 AM
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Sweet Dreams night crew...Good Morn day crew


To go with your morning cuppa...


Below are the latest earthquakes and earthquake news from around the world updated in real-time by RSS feeds, latest news is lower down the page below the latest quakes!

USGS M 2.5+ Earthquakes

Real-time, worldwide earthquake list for the past day

M 4.9, off the east coast of Honshu, Japan
37.689°N 143.935°E

Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:03:04 UTC
Tuesday, April 26, 2011 08:03:04 PM at epicenter

Depth: 20.40 km (12.68 mi)
Posted on 26 April 2011 | 10:03 am

newsblogged.com...


Off to grind beans....Italian Espresso today...


Des



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by predator0187
Maybe reactor 4 had something weird yes, but numbers like that are huge. The reactor core was exposed at Chernobyl, people could physically see it, and the glowing mass was not that high in readings.


The surface of the molten corium under Chernobyl... 10 years later when they went back in...



How much is that in sieverts?


Drop 2 zeros and that's the reading in sieverts. So about 100.

Pred...
edit on 26-4-2011 by predator0187 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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We have to this forum, a new ATS member, from Japan. Ren1999. He kindly gave permission to copy this post over to this thread. I found the last bit of info quite interesting. Not something one would hear on MSM/Japan. Ren joined ATS to find better data than he/she, sorry I didn't ask, could find coming out of Japan.




this post
Thank you both for your concern.

Fukushima and Chiba seem to be taking the daily beating right now with magnitude 4 and 5 quakes every day. If Tokyo should be next to have this months long quake-fest, I'm sure a lot of people will lose their nerve and leave.

Because Chiba, just north east and in the Tokyo area, is getting it, central Tokyo could be next. However, we've also got the Mount Fuji area providing some stability. I'm sure there is plate locking holding things down.

Here is something most of you don't know. Many mothers and children in Tokyo have already left and are staying in their home towns all over Japan, spread out. However, because of the quietness in the city for the past 2 weeks, they might be returning.



I did give Ren a link to this thread. Hope they join in here too.

Des



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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Morning Des et. al.,

Coffee without milk for me.


I read the excellent posts here last night, but did not add. The workers there have been on my mind. I am bothered by them surely dying unreported and as anonymous heroes. They have been sacrificed. TEPCO and the Japan government need to create a memorial page for these heroes. I fear many of them have come to their end of days by now with radiation levels. They should be honored, not treated as unmentionables. It is time for the executives to take their turn minding the store at the Fukushima plant. The numbers of people there on-site to help must be dwindling. The executives are surely as qualified. Tag you are it.

After the discussion yesterday that the pressure in #1 is likely artificial on here. We have this today.

Nuke agency says water may be leaking from No. 1 reactor container




TOKYO (Kyodo) -- The government's nuclear agency said Tuesday that water may be leaking from the No. 1 reactor container of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, and that remote-controlled robots are expected to check the situation inside the reactor building.

The possible water leakage is likely to affect work to flood the reactor's primary container with water as part of efforts to stably cool the nuclear fuel placed inside the pressure vessel.

"We are currently examining data, but we think that there is water leakage to some extent," Hidehiko Nishiyama, spokesman for the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, told a press conference in the morning.

He said that data suggesting the possibility showed up through work to inject nitrogen into the container, which is aimed at reducing the risks of hydrogen explosions.

The robots, which went inside the No. 1 reactor building on April 17 to check the radiation level there, are expected to enter the building again later Tuesday to observe the primary container, Nishiyama said.


Link

Filling these reactors with water has also been highly criticized as it makes them more susceptible to earthquake damage. Not that there is any of that going on.
They are indeed desperate.

Sliding...sliding...sliding...downhill with a comfy evacuation zone to keep watchers away. They need to tell the truth.



posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


You are right,....a nuclear reactor is a controlled atombomb....but with a delayed explosion if you understand what I am saying. The waste produced is the same.

IMHO everybody should leave the place and let the fires burn until finished and not to sacrifice human lives. Saving the place from becoming worse is beyond human capabillty. Take our loses and learn from the mistakes...



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