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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves



Much more here


Arbitrary units?





posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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The proverbial we?

edit on 24-4-2011 by SamSeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog

Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by xxPUSH0Noo


Wert, the unfortunate thing is that mechanical propulsion or destruction is almost immaterial to the size of the particles formed ( from the governments own testing on 'waste' fuel rods by 'explosive' and compressive 'disintegration' or destruction by explosion), but even then the particles from these materials seem to form very small particles ( less than ten microns ) almost entirely.

The research indicates a secondary process wherein hi-energy chemical interaction during and immediately after explosive decomposition is like an automatic aerosol particle generator. The tell tale indicator that this being a chemical thing should be especially temperature dependent ( although I have yet to find the study relating to further tests in this area ) but , the range of temperature tests done DO CONFIRM ( by whatever mechanism ) that at temps as low as 60C almost complete aerosolization of things like cesium and around ten percent for things like uranium ( I have not found 100% peer review data on plutonium yet, but being more reactive I would assume higher numbers )

Since we are talking temps in the 1000C+ range for starters and 100C-400C almost every day since, we can count on a very high level of single digit micon sized particles , that would ( even heavy as uranium ) act very much like a gas and have extremely long legs ( pacific league boots so to speak ), also uranium at these types of temps and environs will form UO3 which (uranium tri-ozide) O3 is ozone,


I think RedN was thinking the size of the explosion did matter (mainly how high), but what you are saying makes sense, the size of the particularization is more important. I hadn't made the connection between aerosolization and gasification. If this is what has occurred the situation is MUCH much much worse than we are being let to believe. THIS could be the reason for the massive coverup, and so many folks need to connect the dots here. OMG. I should have left the West Coast when I wanted to, but by the 18th it was too late. We've had so much rain since then as well it's been rained out pretty heavily. I'm no weather expert, but have been doing some research on the troposphere and found that weather patterns over the pacific vary heavily as per time of year. There are so many uptakes at this level it is highly likely that much of this "plutionium gas" will have made it to the US/Canada. Also, we are heading into tropical upper tropospheric trough (cyclone season - May to Sept) what continues to spew out will enter into these highly dynamic weather patterns.


Think of it as a lot of really hot little hot air balloons like weather balloons ( the same kind the japanese used during WW2 to cross the pacific )

Between November of 1944 and April of 1945, the Japanese launched about 9300 balloon bombs against the US.
Out of that number, only about 1,000 actually made it to the US and Canada,

The first balloons were launched on November 3, 1944 and began landing in the United States on November 5th, off San Pedro, California, and by the following day were landing as far away as Thermopolis, Wyoming.

...The balloon then would rise again to approximately 38,000 feet, and be carried along by the higher winds. It would sink to the minimum desired altitude-around 30,000 feet-as the gas slowly escaped or was cooled.....


I didn't know about the balloon bombs, wow, that's amazing.




Even as they start to cool they can use the O3 hooks and ladders to get high and stay so by using a variety of tricks including tagging onto water vapor. I am not trying to be alarmist but the problem is somewhat worse than one would hope for ... I am sure it's one of the reasons for silence on certain isotopes on the US side, it would spell the death bell tolling for the NUKE industry if people realize just how much pollution and over how large an area ONE Nuke plant can spill.


THIS IS VERY BAD. This is the reason there is no data folks.



And I am not sure whom you are kidding but that spaghetti makes me think of sex EVERY time , without fail, and it makes me hungry which is about how that normally works anyway. (oh and Jaded found the waste rod aerosol pdf I just was able to slog through it ;-)
edit on 24-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


Um, ok, a little TMI but funny! Spagetti fetish.... ok, well! Didn't mean to make you feel frisky every time you saw my avatar, but I think I will keep it up and get a private giggle from your reaction, but after all food and sex are two of the mostest awesome things in the whole world so no harm done!

edit on 24-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)


Hey, so summarizing for a science-dummy like me your saying that plutonium may very well of made it to the US in dangerous amounts? I am living in Texas but have the option to move back to SC and I will factor that into my decision somewhat......



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by SamSeed
 
try it again, Sam; no vid, bad linky; we are patiently waiting...


seeker



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by vox2442
 


Ya, I know. It was based on 3 million gallons. My guess is it's arbitrary because TEPCO hasn't exactly been forthcoming with levels of radiation in what has gotten out. I originally left the graph out of the post from that site for that very reason. Added it after initial post. Sorry...maybe I should have left it out still. Everything is arbitrary right now. We will see what Greenpeace reports once they get on site. Anyone know the date of their arrival to begin testing water and marine life? We need folks besides TEPCO.GOV testing.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by DancedWithWolves
 


DWW, your post could not be more bang-on. I'd bake you a cake but can only star you. I wish we could flag and sticky this post because what you are posting here is so important.

1. There is NO safe level of radiation
2. Radiation bio-accumlates
3. We're not being told about the alpha emitters

Especially striking to me is this quote from your post:


“The committee concludes that the current scientific evidence is consistent with the hypothesis that there is a linear, no-threshold dose-response relationship between exposure to ionizing radiation and the development of cancer in humans.” This means that the sum of several very small exposures to radiation has the same effect as one large exposure, since the effects of radiation are cumulative. And this means millions and eventually billions of people are going to be affected by this multiple reactor disaster in Japan.


And when we talk about affected, we should be clear. This is going to effect the human race on a genetic cellular level and much of this material will not disappear for 1/2 million years.

Psychopathology of Leaders

Also, I meant to make a post about this but you mention Psychopaths. It is clear that Sociopaths are running these companies and have no care/thought for anything but their own interests. The fact that millions will die does not move them. Mutated babies do not move them, they have a complete lack of empathy. A high proportion of our corporate leaders are sociopaths & psychopaths as it is these very qualities that make them successful in these roles. Sociopaths are specifically sought after by corporate leadership. There is evidence that psychopathy may be hereditary whereas sociopathology may be environmental. wiki - psychopaths & sociopaths
edit on 24-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by Silverlok
 


Just adding to your post, I believe it was chr0naut who proposed that the reactor was intentionally being run in a "breeder" configuration (he might have just been talking about #3), was being run beyond safety limits and was too hot. The shut down was NOT successful ... the reactors were too hot resulting in re-criticality after shut-down. Apparently it is common practice for TEPCO to "overclock" their reactors, a very dangerous practice with the potential for exactly this sort of outcome.


Yes they certainly were , just using the mox pushed that reactor above it's output level ( there is some thermal and kilowatt pdf's somewhere showing the before and after mox use, but It appears that none of the scrams was actually done on any of the reactors , and that Tepco did not have nitrogen in the drywell ( secondary containment )

the # 3 reactor is also where the cameras were installed by magma as it was having over heating, and other problems , so it's probably why the core burned so hot so quickly, which reminds me...


the description I realize of the scram not completing at three, rounds out our assessment of what happened there:

almost certain leak somewhere in the steam side or vent side for #3 or the #3turbine start releasing water
1)scram failure
2)power failure
3)flooded 'basements', torus' 'rooms' from tsunami in at least #3
4) ALL zircalloy converted to hydrogen and other by-products filling inside of 'trapped' areas in building #3
5)Corium melts through the rpv in less than 40 hours
6)Corium melts through the dry-well ( secondary contaminant ) in about forty hours and hits the water in the basement : BOOM

7)Steam explosion begins ripping building apart, ignites hydrogen and ( through roughly similar sized holes in the dry-well and RPV ( why the noises on the tape of the explosion are so evenly spaced)) pops both primary and secondary lids producing the 'cannon' ( booms would have been RPV cap , secondary cap , and concrete cap , boom , boom ,boom

8)pool is mostly destroyed in explosion and what remains begins to poolium up

( so I do not think , anymore, three had a torus explosion, but design flaw , human error, and mox contributed massively to three popping . if it had a secondary cooling loop I believe three never would have blown even with all that )



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
reply to post by vox2442
 


Ya, I know. It was based on 3 million gallons. My guess is it's arbitrary because TEPCO hasn't exactly been forthcoming with levels of radiation in what has gotten out. I originally left the graph out of the post from that site for that very reason. Added it after initial post. Sorry...maybe I should have left it out still. Everything is arbitrary right now. We will see what Greenpeace reports once they get on site. Anyone know the date of their arrival to begin testing water and marine life? We need folks besides TEPCO.GOV testing.


Green Peace arrival date Fukushima...The Warrior is expected to arrive in the Fukushima area around the 28th of April.


We hope that by providing additional, independent contamination information we can help ensure the right decisions are made to clean up this disaster, safeguard the marine environment, and ensure the people of Japan can make the right choices to protect their lives and livelihoods.

The trip will also be one of the last for the aging Warrior, which, after 20 years of environmental campaigning around the world, is due for retirement be replaced by the purpose-built Rainbow Warrior III. She came into service campaigning against nuclear technology, and it is fitting that she will spend her last days again highlighting the terrible consequences our unnecessary reliance on nuclear power can have.

The Warrior is expected to arrive in the Fukushima area around the 28th of April. www.greenpeace.org...


Des



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by Destinyone
Reading between the ripples...

With the lack of pertinent data being released. We are still finding nuggets of truth, by reading between the ripples.
Japan's gov't and TEPCO, are sowing massive amounts of a whole new emotional crop. One not often seen in the Japanese culture.They are sowing "anger" This new crop is starting to grow as fast, as the radioactive leaks at Fukushima.
Neither can be controlled. The irony here...the leaks, fertilize the new crop. Just as Japan/TEPCO have no "plan" on how to deal with all the radiation...they also have no "plan" on how to deal with all that anger.


(Apr. 24, 2011

Satoyama woodlands face grim future

The Yomiuri Shimbun DAILY YOMIURI ONLINE

IITATEMURA, Fukushima--Radiation leaks from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant will force people in Iitatemura to abandon satoyama--natural woodlands near human communities

Residents of Nagadoro district in southern Iitatemura have been devoted to preserving the picturesque satoyama woodlands. A gentle stream burbles through the landscape, where residents grow vegetables.

Though Iitatemura is more than 30 kilometers from the crippled nuclear plant, the entire village was designated as a planned evacuation zone Friday. Consequently, the residents who have tended the satoyama will soon have to leave the area.

Hatsuo Sugi#a, 61, who left his company to operate a stone processing and sales business in the town after he inherited a plot of land there, has cherished the satoyama with his wife, Takiko.

But his family will have to take shelter in the next few weeks due to the risk of long-term exposure to radiation, leaving his house, factory and fields behind.

"We haven't decided anything--where we'll go or how to earn a living. If nobody lives in the satoyama, this place will soon be ruined. Even if we can come back, the satoyama can't be returned to its original state," Sugi#a said. "I want people in the Kanto region who received the benefits of the nuclear power plant to understand our feelings."
www.yomiuri.co.jp...

Des


Greetings:

As usual, a wonderful find.

These pictures reflect your story and we are truly happy to share space with you directly on this thread - always near - and there. Thank you for what you do - our heart sends you a rose ... enjoy.


Satoyama
































In Peace, Love & Light

tfw



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


We have been trying to figure out for 780 pages how to prove that those control rods did not insert. I believe you may have just done that. Well done. Very well done. Thank you. (insert bowing dude here)


Your last few posts have been historic. Thank you so, so much for sharing your thoughts and analysis here.

California's not so happy cows...are also following this thread...closely.




They will, again, be waiting for TEPCO executives...out back.

cow



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by xxPUSH0Noo
 




Hey, so summarizing for a science-dummy like me your saying that plutonium may very well of made it to the US in dangerous amounts? I am living in Texas but have the option to move back to SC and I will factor that into my decision somewhat......


Yes, we are saying that the plutonium in gaseous form made it here and is currently raining out/being deposited. This will now be lower amounts than when the blast occurred, but we really don't know how much since we aren't being told. You should carefully weigh what the officials are saying and make your own choices, but yes, this is very bad news. I initially believed RedNeck because the explosion was below 500ft and didn't realize it could aerosolize into a gaseous form as Silverlok has pointed out. The more research I did on the lower troposphere (the level at which this explosion occurred), there is a high probability that even aerosolized alpha particles have made it here, but if it is a kind of "plutonium gas" it is almost certain.

You must choose for yourself what you would like to do.There is still time to go, radiation is cumulative, but much of it will spread all around the northern hemisphere eventually. If I was going to bug out it would be Southern Hemisphere.
edit on 24-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by DancedWithWolves
 


(thread-delay disclaimer)

Fantastic suggestion!

I made a thread in the board news and discussion forum here some time back when thinking about this and I suggest something similar.

Take a look at the thread in my signature for an example of one person'a dedication to updating such a reference source.

It's no small task.

Back to reading. I need to get caught up fully work has been a bit of a bear leaving me somewhat drained when home and the need for rest has overridden the need for information.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by xxPUSH0Noo
 




Hey, so summarizing for a science-dummy like me your saying that plutonium may very well of made it to the US in dangerous amounts? I am living in Texas but have the option to move back to SC and I will factor that into my decision somewhat......


Yes, we are saying that the plutonium in gaseous form made it here and is currently raining out/being deposited. This will now be lower amounts than when the blast occurred, but we really don't know how much since we aren't being told. You should carefully weigh what the officials are saying and make your own choices, but yes, this is very bad news. I initially believed RedNeck because the explosion was below 500ft and didn't realize it could aerosolize into a gaseous form as Silverlok has pointed out. The more research I did on the lower troposphere (the level at which this explosion occurred), there is a high probability that even aerosolized alpha particles have made it here, but if it is a kind of "plutonium gas" it is almost certain.

You much choose for yourself what you would like to do.There is still time to go, radiation is cumulative, but much of it will spread all around the northern hemisphere eventually. If I was going to bug out it would be Southern Hemisphere.

Thank you again & star for breakin that down for me. I am not going to bug out as there is nothing you can do about these things but just be aware, alert and informed. I can't run from something this big. Eventually it will be by the beach where I will be.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by gr82m8okdok
Des baked you one, Zorgon, but your ferrets ate it.





posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 





Yes, we are saying that the plutonium in gaseous form made it here and is currently raining out/being deposited. This will now be lower amounts than when the blast occurred, but we really don't know how much since we aren't being told


well here is the "offical numbers" take it for what it's worth
link



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Yes, that's definitely him. Commander Fuzzbutt, I gave your Chocolate Souffle to him, I did. He's one handsome bandit



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by the seeker_713g
Aye, woggy, that is going to be the crux of the matter; look at the situation in Germany, and their reaction to all this fertilizer being spread by Inepco and the rest... I imagine that a lot of citizens might actually not only get a little pissed but might possibly raise mortal hell if they ever did get a clue as to how easily it can get really bad (is bad) and break out the pitchforks and goon boots world wide;



Well it might not be all that bad
A little radiation might improve the yield...





Those are plants grown from seeds taken into space and exposed to space radiation for two weeks then brought back and planted
China thinks its the answer to food shortages

www.spotshoppingguide.com...

I mean just imagine potatoes like this...




edit on 24-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by xxPUSH0Noo
 


"plutonium ...dangerous amounts"

wow , what is a dangerous amount of plutonium in the environment and how does one judge when several hundred tons spread across the northern hemisphere in a non-uniform way constitute more risk than is wise?

Yes it is my belief that uranium , plutonium , strontium , americium , ...etc etc are 'fall-out' here( I live in wisconsin) , also that significant large amounts of cesium have been released to make a difference, but it falls in two aspects: one immediate exposure , the other in cumulative environmental exposure ( bio-accumulation ) . The weakest link is going to be the water table , because all as ( as bender says ) meat bags are mostly water , and we have to eat things made out of ..mostly water , so determine your water table and where and how it gets replenished and whom uses it for your for food stock, is a 1% chance of cancer better than a 5 % chance of cancer ? or is .5% I believe the long term effects may be as high as 25 to 30% in areas that have special warm climates , centralized water facilities for large land area's , but that is over a 20 year time scale for EVERYONE

As dances says , babies and old people first..remember one odd fact , some of the survivors from Chernobyl claimed they could taste the radiation, an interesting consideration .

without more info it's a from the intestines guess , make of it what you will , but as better numbers become available ( which they will ) better place estimates will be possible , but for the nonce all one can say for sure itit is absolutely positively not zero ... but radiation is a crap shoot



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Trying to do my part =)
G ood Link To Bookmark All Things Radiation
&& I was wondering about this !!! Take a look !! What are yall's opinions on this? I was watching CNN this morning and after watching a clip of a tornado somewhere on the east coast the woman commented ".........the jet stream is strong!"

"Atmospheric radiation leak underestimated"
Duhhhhh
Source & Article



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog

Yes, we are saying that the plutonium in gaseous form made it here and is currently raining out/being deposited. This will now be lower amounts than when the blast occurred, but we really don't know how much since we aren't being told.


Sharing these screen captures extracted from buried EPA data. Still unverified data as the OP of the original thread did a quick in and out on the thread and it is languishing.





Plutonium Results
Update 12:01 EST April, 22nd 2011
Here are the results for Plutonium.
All results were detected by actinides extraction chromatography as part of either the RadNet Radiation Network Alert or the Fukushima deployables.
To fit the data on the web page I have moved some redundant columns .
I removed the half-life column which the EPA results report as 24131 years for Plutonium-239 and for 87.75 years for Plutonium-238.
I have also removed the unit column as all amounts reported are pCi/m3 or picocuries per cubic meter.






Strontium Results
Update 1:07 EST April, 22nd 2011
Strontium-89 and 90 were detected in Environmental Matrices.
Again the half-life column has been removed to fit the data on this page. The EPA reports the half-life for the Strontium-89 is 50.55 years and the half-life for the Strontium-90 at 28.6 years.
All Strotium detections were from the RadNet Radiation Alert Network.
Agian all units reported are pCi/m3 or picocuries per cubic meter.



You can get to the EPA data yourself, though it is rather confusing.

1. Start here: Final step of the advanced custom EPA Radnet data search here. Link
2. Then simply enter 3/11/2011 as the start date and today’s date as the end date.
3. Scroll down click the radionuclides to include in the results, for example plutonium.
4. Finally click search database to view the results or download to CSV to save the results on your PC.

Again h/t to Lucas for making the original discovery that the EPA had hidden this data from the public results they have been compiling.


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