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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 729.htm
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posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
...
I count 45 gamma strikes ( the orange circles are probably gamma strikes but I am not 100% on those so they are merely circled for your consideration ) which at 1/1000 of a second and given the section of photo relative to the size of the ccd ( 1/12 th) then that equates to 13,500,000 hits per second on one square inch
Now those are back of the napkin calculations but even at 1/10 that that is one hell of a lot of exposure
edit on 16-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


Ok, follow my logic here;

If an Sv is Joules per Kilogram
and the sensor weighs 5 g
then
13.5 mega*550Mev /5 g / sec (assuming 550 Mev per decay of Cs-137)
or .23 Sv / sec
or 857 Sv / hr
or 85700 rem / hr

Which seems much to high to be reasonable.

The math is fun, but I don't know that it is correct. We would need to know the actual mass of the sensor and it's sensitivity to gama hits.
--
edit
I thought of something that radically changes the initial assumption that the ccd was exposed for only 1/1000 of a second. Even though the shutter is fast that Actually ccd 'exposure time is fixed a 60th of a second or so and since gama rays don't stop exposing just because the light shutter is closed the initial calculation of 13.5 mega hits per second is way off.
edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: Gama exposes even when the light shutter is closed.


So using the new logic that the ccd is exposed to gama for at least a quarter of a second we get;
45 12 550Mev / 1g /.25 s = 0.685Sv / hr
or 45 12 550Mev / 1g /.25 s = 68.5 rem/hr

Which is still obviously wrong but closer to the ball park.

edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: -- Recalc


Or a 5gm ccd is;
45 12 550Mev / 5g /.25 s = 0.137 Sv/hr
45 12 550Mev / 5g /.25 s = 13.7 rem/hr
edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: 5 gram ccd

edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: the extra decimal digits are not significant.



Actually I should be quoting Cs-137 here which actually has a gama of 661 Kev so I did my calc wrong using Mev instead of Kev (off by a factor of a 1000 ) ;-)
It should actually be
5 12 661kev / 5g /.25 s = 16 mrem/hr = 0.16 mSv/hr
edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: Got to be accurate but you can't get better unless you make a few mistakes




posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
That pesky INTAKE port again...

Radioactivity rises again in sea near No.2 reactor


..

The power company says no new sources of leakage have been found.

Saturday, April 16, 2011 23:55 +0900 (JST)


of course according to them no source has been found , oh wait a crack was found and plugged , wait wait again there is still a mystery leak that has not been found , but it was gravel under the plant , but wait yet again no new mystery leaks are occuring ...no seriously , trust us , really why would we lie, you know it's like a film by m.night shyamalan, perhaps if we throw water on the tepco officials they will dissolve ...

I think if any of those guys were in one of the reactors ( like laying power cable or looking for leaks or what ever) they may have made an exit under sheet ...




though I am sure the resemblance has a perfectly reasonable explanation
and I would assume none of these guys has been getting gamma radiation (blue circles) :





edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:31 AM
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On NHK the TEPCO reps are taking questions and answers. (!!!) This has not happened since the disaster; as far as I know, this is the first time. And it sounds as if they finally have a plan. It rests on a knife edge, but at least they are taking steps and mapping out plans.

NHK Live

Sorry, the link will not take you to the press conference, it is on NHK live. Hopefully someone will put it up on YouTube.
edit on 17-4-2011 by OuttaHere because: just... because.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by SDoradus
 


No , it's not built as a sensor we just need to know the surface area of the ccd and the time of exposure. Plus IF the gamma is from cesium alone the energy is only 1.176 [1] MeV . the number you are quoting seems to be for the energy released when a positron and electron annihilate each other ( not all gamma is the same )

Do you have a source for the fixed number? as it does not seem possible , you may ave a fixed charge read-out time but that has nothing to do with exposure time , and it doesn't make sense for basic photography ( one must constantly change aperture and exposure )

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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Dang the translators are having real problem with this press release and they cut off the Q&A after to cut to government response



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by SDoradus
 



Again the mass is not important , this is not a dedicate gamma device that is designed to pick up a range of gamma energies ...and you are using way too high of an energy (that's a positron electron energy)

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: is in it's all good



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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First short blurb released

TEPCO issues containment schedule for plant


The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says it hopes to have the nuclear crisis under control in around 6 to 9 months.

During that period, Tokyo Electric Power Company plans to cool nuclear fuel in the reactors.

It also plans to prevent the release of radioactive substances into the environment.

Sunday, April 17, 2011 15:19 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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TEPCO aims to achieve 'cold shutdown' for reactors in 6-9 months

TOKYO, April 17, Kyodo


Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Sunday that it aims to bring the damaged reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to a stable condition known as a ''cold shutdown'' in about six to nine months, while restoring stable cooling to the reactors and spent fuel pools in about three months.

At a news conference in Tokyo, company Chairman Tsunehisa Katsumata announced the utility's schedule ''for the moment'' for bringing the complex in Fukushima Prefecture under control, while offering an apology for the ongoing nuclear crisis.

The utility, known as TEPCO, also said it needs three months to achieve ''steady reduction'' in radiation, and an additional three to six months to control radioactive emissions and curb radiation substantially.

It said it is addressing the immediate challenges of preventing hydrogen explosions at the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors and emission of water contaminated with high-level radiation from the No. 2 reactor.

The nuclear plant has been crippled by the devastating March 11 earthquake and subsequent tsunami, with the resulting damage causing radioactive materials to be emitted into the environment and forcing residents near the plant to be evacuated.

==Kyodo


english.kyodonews.jp...


NHK News is repeating the press conference now

www3.nhk.or.jp...



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by zorgon
 



The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says it hopes to have the nuclear crisis under control in around 6 to 9 months.

During that period, Tokyo Electric Power Company plans to cool nuclear fuel in the reactors.

It also plans to prevent the release of radioactive substances into the environment.

Sunday, April 17, 2011 15:19 +0900 (JST)


That's a wish list..
Where's the plan to accomplish this??

BTW guys..Been reading all the posts..
Great work in keeping us up to date..



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

...

I count 45 gamma strikes ( the orange circles are probably gamma strikes but I am not 100% on those so they are merely circled for your consideration ) which at 1/1000 of a second and given the section of photo relative to the size of the ccd ( 1/12 th) then that equates to 13,500,000 hits per second on one square inch
Now those are back of the napkin calculations but even at 1/10 that that is one hell of a lot of exposure
edit on 16-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


Actually I should be quoting Cs-137 here which actually has a gama of 661 Kev so I did my calc wrong using Mev instead of Kev (off by a factor of a 1000 ) ;-)
It should actually be
5 12 661kev / 5g /.25 s = 16 mrem/hr = 0.16 mSv/hr

This is a number that is looking almost believable.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
TEPCO aims to achieve 'cold shutdown' for reactors in 6-9 months


That doesn't seem reasonable to me, I guess I have been assuming it would be over quicker.



It said it is addressing the immediate challenges of preventing hydrogen explosions at the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors and emission of water contaminated with high-level radiation from the No. 2 reactor.


How can there be a hydrogen buildup in #3? I would think a buildup is only dangerous under pressure, and there just can't be in #3. Unless the rpv itself never really blew up. suuure it didn't.

I have given tepco the benefit of the doubt for awhile now, I think I have been naive.



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
That's a wish list..
Where's the plan to accomplish this??


Its a long list airing right NOW www3.nhk.or.jp...



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by SDoradus
 


No , it's not built as a sensor we just need to know the surface area of the ccd and the time of exposure. Plus IF the gamma is from cesium alone the energy is only 1.176 [1] MeV . the number you are quoting seems to be for the energy released when a positron and electron annihilate each other ( not all gamma is the same )

Do you have a source for the fixed number? as it does not seem possible , you may ave a fixed charge read-out time but that has nothing to do with exposure time , and it doesn't make sense for basic photography ( one must constantly change aperture and exposure )

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)


My thought is that the gama doesn't care if the light shutter is closed or not. I know on my canon camera that the maximum cycle rate is about three frames per second. If I choose .25 seconds per ccd charge / read/ charge cycle that seems reasonable.

--

Nor does gama care what the aperture is or even if you left your lens cap on or not. :-)
edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: apature



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:11 AM
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#2 is damaged and they want to seal the damaged portion.

Hope this list comes out in English soon... I don't have shorthand

edit on 17-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by SDoradus
 


CS-137 decay energy = 1.176 [1] MeV,

I have a line in to Sony about that specific camera , I believe the only mistaken area I have is linear measurement to square measurement as the white paper on the camera is somewhat unclear on how the measure the ccd size
If I am using a linear measurement in place of a square it changes the number to 3674 strikes per second .
edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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Kyodo News


NEWS ADVISORY: TEPCO chairman Katsumata mulling resignation to take blame
NEWS ADVISORY: TEPCO President Shimizu also mulling resignation: Chairman Katsumata

edit on 17-4-2011 by OuttaHere because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:43 AM
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Kyodo Breaking News

* NEWS ADVISORY: TEPCO President Shimizu also mulling resignation: Chairman Katsumata (16:25)

* NEWS ADVISORY: Kan tells Clinton Japan 'will never forget' U.S. support after quake (16:24)

* NEWS ADVISORY: Japan can rebuild itself, have economic success for decades: Clinton (16:23)

* NEWS ADVISORY: Kan thanks Clinton for U.S. 'utmost' help in disaster relief (16:17)

LINK



Edit: OuttaHere quick posting :-)
edit on 17-4-2011 by AlaskanDad because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by SDoradus
 


the charge read-out is the critical phase which is why I circled the obvious charge up charge down dots as orange

here we go as a primer : ccd charge and cosmic rays those things that have 550 MeV energies seem to stop at the shutter for practical purposes of charge read-out times , or rather be editable but the theory remains


I'm just trying to turn the white dots on the image's you have into radiation measurements that everyone is familiar with. Since a sievert is defined as a joule per kg (J/kg) it seems that the mass of the ccd is more important than the surface area.

We aren't getting those little specs on the image from the things in the image, those little dot's if they are radiation and not ccd defects are not coming in and being focused through the lens, they are gama rays in the immediate environment around the camera. and not from the distant objects we see in the image. They could have flown in through the photographer and the back wall of the camera for all the gama rays care.

You may be trying to compute something else from your surface size instead of sieverts but I can't tell what that is from the posts.
edit on 17-4-2011 by SDoradus because: spell it right!



posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by SDoradus
 


yes I understand , I have been trying that myself but a number of obstacles have jumped in the way ( mass being a big one , and energy concentration being another ) , and , heehehehe, I'm crowd sourcing , heh, the first problem we face it simply getting hits per second per area , connecting that to actual radiation levels is going to require the exact kind of thinking you are employing ( in the laugh of bender hehehe). for instance in a 60th of a second how far does light travel? is that distance more than the thickness of the ccd (yes) so there are certain cut-off thresholds , nasa and others certainly have already invented this wheel, but

we have absorption, we have total gamma energy ( a huge range ) and we have the 'side-effect' of detection I think just trying to get an accurate count is the first plateau, then we start to examine the materials and charge outs , then we can get actual DOSE reading , but in the mean time if it's raining dots in the image I think we all know it not a healthy place to relax :-)

ah , I realize I should add : the ccd is not designed to differentiate the energies , the only thing we have is does the transient energy act like a photon at the ccd AT THE TIME OF CHARGE ( photo) and how much noise , charge up charge down is being effected by gamma pass thru , also the concept of absorption vs. pass thru .

edit on 17-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)




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