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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 705.htm
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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Alpha radiation can be stopped by a thin sheet of paper. Now if I was moving large block of irradiated stuff I would cover it with something and reduce the alpha radiation to virtually nothing. Like for example plastic tarps ( that would also trap any particles/dust and prevent people from breathing it in)




posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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I'm reminded of an old aphorism regarding horses and barn doors:

April 15 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. will move emergency generators to higher ground to avoid further tsunamis as it fights to stabilize the crippled Fukushima reactors amid aftershocks that may continue for six months or more.

The diesel backup generators will be placed 20 meters (66 feet) above sea level, double the current height, and be hooked up to the cooling systems around April 19, the company said yesterday. Aftershocks as big as magnitude-7 are likely to continue striking the area, said Teruyuki Kato, a professor at the University of Tokyo's Earthquake Research Institute.


My teenagers are smarter than these people. I've talked to them about this and one of the very first questions they asked as why the backup generators were placed so close to the shore if they knew that tsunamis were possible.

And we see here that they're perfectly happy dragging this out:


Engineers at the utility rejected a proposal to flood the reactors, which could lower temperatures in days rather than months, according to the person, who asked not to be identified because he isn't authorized to speak to the media. Instead, the utility is pumping in water and venting off steam, a method called "feed and bleed."

Tokyo Electric is reluctant to flood the reactors because the move might generate bad publicity, the person said.


You mean they've had some good publicity?

And then there is this shining example of the uncaring attitude we've come to expect from Tepco:


Representatives for farmers went to Tepco's headquarters in central Tokyo yesterday to deliver a letter of protest and demand compensation from President Masataka Shimizu for losses caused by the leakage of radiation.

After receiving the letter, Shimizu didn't join talks with the farmers, instead leaving managing director Naomi Hirose to lead the discussions.




I really don't know how much more of this male bovine fecal matter I can stand.
Source for above quotes

edit on 14-4-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: sourced, sorry for the initial omission. this whole situation has me more than a tad perturbed.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
Sometimes this thread needs a little Joe Friday..."just the facts 'mam."


Practice what you preach.... you just managed to fill two pages with your excessive quotes and non productive arguments

:shk:



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
No, but conspiracy mongering only mucks up the thread and makes it look goofy.

For instance, the barge in the middle of bay. A week or so ago one press/media report stated workers were filling sand bags because they were going to reinforce the breakwater. To me this indicated they were probably going to attempt to close it off at a narrow juncture in an effort to keep radiated seawater from entering to the outside. I thought it was a pretty good idea. So now we have pics of a barge loaded with sandbags covered by white tarps and a crane to lower them into place. Pretty simple explanation. But on this thread it has become a gigantic conspiracy to hide equipment from a mysterious and hidden weapons program by dumping them in the bay.


[sarcasm]
Correct they covered the sandbags with "white tarps" to keep the radioactive rains off of the sandbags, as TOPECO did not want to chance radioactive contamination entering the Pacific ocean from said sandbags.

[/sarcasm]


Now for some reality:
If TOPECO was not up to something why not just put out a press release showing they were on the job and show us they were sealing the bay to lower the amount radioactive waters? I feel it is important that TOPECO is scrutinized considering their past records of wrong doings and cover ups.


edit on 14-4-2011 by AlaskanDad because: change format & added italics



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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First of all thanks to everybody providing information here.
I could not follow all posts, its movin too quickly for me, so sorry if posted already
found a german / swiss news ticker from greenpeace:

www.greenpeace.org... trophe-in-Japan/Katastrophe-in-Japan---Newsticker/

Saying they found Strontium 90 outside the 30km radius.
"Das Entweichen deutet auf massive Schäden an den Reaktorkernen hin. "

"The escape is indicative of massive damage to the reactor cores."



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow

Originally posted by mendel101

As I remember, after reactor building 4 exploded they first cooled down the reactor 4 spend fuel pool with sea water. Now they are topping it up with sweet water. Sea water and fresh water don't mix very well and the fresh water, being lighter, floats on top. My guess is that the highly contaminated salt water was not sampled, only the relatively uncontaminated sweet water upper layer.

In other words, the 400 cc sample may not be a representative water sample. Therefore statements about the intactness of the rods are shakey.

Mendel.



Assuming much of the radiation is coming from the fission of fuel rods that melted when the water level dropped I would guess the water at the top of the reactor to be more radiated then that at the bottom.


More radiated perhaps, but not more concentrated in radioisotopes (which is what they measured).



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 





If they are making sandbags it would make sense to cover them since if they get wet it could double the weight making them much more difficult to handle.


well now that makes perfect sense doesn't it??? seems If I had a crane handy I would not worry about the weight much...

seems like alot of extra work and time as well....fill sandbags....load on barge.....take sandbags out to sea...bring sandbags back.....wait several days then unload them back where you started from???

also must be pretty costly sandbags to need a warship to look after things....oh wait....it was there just to rinse off a barge with a firehose....




posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 


They have to be filled, stored, loaded onto the barge then loaded onto whatever depositing mechanism the crane employs.

Mod Edit: Quoting – Please Review This Link.




edit on 15/4/11 by argentus because: removed large quote and inserted "reply to"



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 


The presence of the French, the stalling, turning away US help when they have the experts on the tech being used, and the fright of the workers all scream "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap Here."

Tarp, no Tarp, doesn't matter. Arguing over the tarps is useful, but even if the tarps turn out of have a legitimate cause it still doesn't mean Tepco / Japan hasn't been up wading in the sea of murk.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by AlaskanDad

Originally posted by mrbillshow
No, but conspiracy mongering only mucks up the thread and makes it look goofy.

For instance, the barge in the middle of bay. A week or so ago one press/media report stated workers were filling sand bags because they were going to reinforce the breakwater. To me this indicated they were probably going to attempt to close it off at a narrow juncture in an effort to keep radiated seawater from entering to the outside. I thought it was a pretty good idea. So now we have pics of a barge loaded with sandbags covered by white tarps and a crane to lower them into place. Pretty simple explanation. But on this thread it has become a gigantic conspiracy to hide equipment from a mysterious and hidden weapons program by dumping them in the bay.


[sarcasm]
Correct they covered the sandbags with "white tarps" to keep the radioactive rains off of the sandbags, as TOPECO did not want to chance radioactive contamination entering the Pacific ocean from said sandbags.

[/sarcasm]


Now for some reality:
If TOPECO was not up to something why not just put out a press release showing they were on the job and show us they were sealing the bay to lower the amount radioactive waters? I feel it is important that TOPECO is scrutinized considering their past records of wrong doings and cover ups.


edit on 14-4-2011 by AlaskanDad because: change format & added italics


I'm all for scrutinizing, let's do it rationally.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by mendel101

Originally posted by mrbillshow

Originally posted by mendel101

As I remember, after reactor building 4 exploded they first cooled down the reactor 4 spend fuel pool with sea water. Now they are topping it up with sweet water. Sea water and fresh water don't mix very well and the fresh water, being lighter, floats on top. My guess is that the highly contaminated salt water was not sampled, only the relatively uncontaminated sweet water upper layer.

In other words, the 400 cc sample may not be a representative water sample. Therefore statements about the intactness of the rods are shakey.

Mendel.



Assuming much of the radiation is coming from the fission of fuel rods that melted when the water level dropped I would guess the water at the top of the reactor to be more radiated then that at the bottom.


More radiated perhaps, but not more concentrated in radioisotopes (which is what they measured).


Do radioisotopes fall to the bottom of the reactor?



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by bitbytebit
Im sure others feel this way too, signal to noise ratio is out of whack now.


Yes quite right
so may I suggest you and MrBill start providing more signal, less noise?

I am sure most here would appreciated that

Thanks


BTW you two keep posting the entire quotes... it's not necessary and adds to that noise... and just happens to be against T&C under "excessive quoting

edit on 14-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Forbes:
Why Does FDA Tolerate More Radiation Than EPA?


Since the Environmental Protection Agency began detecting radiation in rainwater and milk at levels above its maximum contaminant level, government officials have been downplaying the importance of EPA’s maximum contaminant level.

They would much prefer us to speak in terms of the Food and Drug Administration’s “Derived Intervention Level.”

The two levels could hardly be more different:

* EPA does not allow drinking water to contain more than 3 picoCuries per liter of radioactive istotopes like iodine-131 and cesium-137.
* FDA allows up to 4,700 picoCuries of iodine-131 in a liter of milk and up to 33,000 picoCuries of cesium-137.

LINK



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Probably right about that.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by AlaskanDad

Forbes:
Why Does FDA Tolerate More Radiation Than EPA?


Since the Environmental Protection Agency began detecting radiation in rainwater and milk at levels above its maximum contaminant level, government officials have been downplaying the importance of EPA’s maximum contaminant level.

They would much prefer us to speak in terms of the Food and Drug Administration’s “Derived Intervention Level.”

The two levels could hardly be more different:

* EPA does not allow drinking water to contain more than 3 picoCuries per liter of radioactive istotopes like iodine-131 and cesium-137.
* FDA allows up to 4,700 picoCuries of iodine-131 in a liter of milk and up to 33,000 picoCuries of cesium-137.

LINK


Because the FDA is bought and sold - the EPA only gets in the way of those who they regulate. The FDA can get in the way AND grant access to a market. They naturally end up higher on the corruption scale.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 





I'm all for scrutinizing, let's do it rationally.


ok lets....

First of all

the use of sandbags was to plug the ends of tunnels not anything in the silt pool..


At the plant, meanwhile, workers were piling sandbags at the ends of tunnels near the coast as water levels inside the tunnels rose and threatened to spill out into the ocean.


link
and that was on march29

and please go ahead and explain why these sand bags that look nothing like a sand bag..were hauled around in the ocean...and then being placed 2 weeks later as you are presenting


thats what this is all about...alot of peoples lives are being affected by these events...I would hope every tiny tid bit of info is being looked at by more than us...

if you don't like a idea someone has.....prove it wrong.....don't just set and spout off veiled insults



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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The level in the tunnels rises again after they drained off 600 tons of water into the condensor. JNA spokesman says they believe the water is leaking out of the reactors. They are continuing injecting water into the core of reactor #2

So... WHERE is all that water going



They also announced that they are moving power generators to higher ground in case of another Tsunami and on FRIDAY they will bring in fire trucks in case pumps fail..

Say WHAT? FRIDAY? what about the ones on site now? :puz"

Fukushima Daiichi prepares for aftershocks


Work is underway at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant to ensure that multiple backup power supplies keep its reactors cool in the event of another strong earthquake and tsunami.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company said workers on Thursday relocated emergency diesel generators and pumps for injecting water into the plant's No. 1 to 3 reactors to higher ground, about 23 meters above sea level.

On Friday, backup power trucks and fire engines are to be brought to the plant to be used if a tsunami washes the pumps away.

Work is also in progress to rewire 2 grid power lines to 4 reactors to avoid a total blackout.

The firm says it is also considering setting up a second system for pumping water into the reactors.

On March 11th, the plant was overcome by 15-meter-high tsunami waves following the huge earthquake.

Thursday, April 14, 2011 20:46 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

Well this is just getting stupider by the minute
:shk:

Another piece of real news... in this building that connects to the turbine building temperatures are high. Recorded 170C on Tuesday and that is up to 250C today... they don't know what is causing it...




JNA spokesman said also that 6 more workers exposed to radiation exceeding limits.


I need to leave so those last two will need watching today as they unfold

www3.nhk.or.jp...

Okay I am gone for now as NHK is showing Japanese lessons which are more important :shk:






edit on 14-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 

Although I replied briefly to your query in this post, I can no longer edit it, hence this new reply...

Okay, after checking several more reports about the Royal Couple's visit to evacuees in a shelter in Asahi City (Chiba Prefecture) today, there are a few more aspects that I'd like to mention.

The first is that The Emperor and Empress made another visit to evacuees last Friday (April 8):

(CNN) - Japan's Emperor and Empress have visited residents, who evacuated their hometown due to accidents at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko on Friday visited a closed high school in Kazo City in Saitama Prefecture, near Tokyo, where about 1,400 residents of Futaba Town are taking shelter. ...
...The Emperor and Empress plan to visit another shelter in Asahi City in Chiba Prefecture, east of Tokyo, next Thursday.

The Imperial couple is considering plans to visit several areas in northeastern Japan that were hit hard by the quake.


(Original source CNN; above excerpt quoted from aHawaii News Now report from April 9.)

As some members here have mentioned, there is a tendency in Japan for people to "close ranks" to some degree in crisis situations; it has even been mentioned here in the thread that some Nagasaki and Hiroshima survivors basically became outcasts because of their radiation-inflicted medical conditions.

I feel that by visiting these evacuees from towns near the Fukushima Daiichi plant, the Emperor and Empress are sending the message that it is not only unacceptable to outcast these people, but that it is quite correct to visit and interact with them. Also, videos of both last Friday's visit and today's show that neither the Emperor or Empress are wearing the white surgical masks that we've so often seen Japanese people wearing.

Message: supporting these evacuees and interacting with them is not only correct, it is also safe. Now, I don't claim to know if this is literally true in every case, but certainly the Royal Couple seem to be making a deliberate effort to defray such concerns and de-stigmatize these evacuees.

Another facet to these visits: remember how the Premier announced widening the evacuation zones but informed people that if they did evacuate, they would be on their own? Well, if the Royal Couple can take the time and trouble to visit these people in person, offer them support and inquire after their health and listen to what they have to say -- showing them that at least as far as the Imperial House is concerned, they are not on their own -- what message is that sending to TPTB in the Japanese Govt and TEPCO?

Now a little more info... If you visit this Imperial Family blog, it states the following:

HIM Emperor AKihito and HIM Empress Michiko visited Asahi city of Chiba prefecture and encouraged affected people on 14th April.

Asahi city was damaged by Tsunami caused by the earthquake occured on 11th March. 13 people died, 2 people are missing and 427 buildings were fully destroyed in the city.

In addition to Asahi City, HIM Emperor Akihito and HIM Empress Michiko are planning to visit several earthquake-affected areas below to encourage affected people.

22nd April / Kitaibaraki City of Ibaraki Prefecture
27th April / Sendai City of Miyagi Prefecture
2nd May / Iwate prefecture
11th May / Fukushima Prefecture


Note: "HIM" means His (or respectively Her) Imperial Majesty.

The planned date for visiting Fukushima Prefecture is precisely on the second-month anniversary of the March 11 quake/tsunami disaster. This could be purely coincidental, but all the same I think it's worth pointing out.

Also on the above-linked page, you'll find several videos of the Royal Couple's most recent visits. For me, at least, they are quite moving to watch, especially one where the kneeling Empress clasps the hands of a young woman, listening intently and with compassion while the clearly distressed woman speaks to her.

I can't over-emphasize that such visits by the Royal Couple are very rare events. The fact that today's was their third such visit since the March 11 disasters (after the March 30 [in Tokyo] and April 8 visits), and that they have further visits planned, clearly demonstrates their wish to support their people and also shows how grave the situation is.

Back in his unprecedented televised speech, the Emperor said that "all Japanese people will work together" and this series of visits to distressed and misplaced people can be seen as a reminder to those in power that they need to be part of that "all".

Finally, also from the above site, I'd like to quote the following:

On the same day, HIH Prince Fumihito of Akishinonomiya and HIH Princess Kiko of Akishinonomiya visited Nagaoka City and Ojiya City of Niigata Prefecture to encourage the nuclear-refugees from Fukushima Prefecture.


Note: "HIH" means His (or respectively Her) Imperial Highness. Prince Fumihito is generally known (to us) as Prince Akishino. He is second in line to the throne.

The wording of the report with the photo on that site is quite significant:
"to encourage the nuclear-refugees from Fukushima Prefecture".

Not just evacuees, but refugees: those who seek refuge. And these are nuclear refugees... There are tens of thousands of evacuees in Japan right now, many of them from tsunami- and quake-devastated regions. A smaller (but growing) number are refugees from the Diaichi disaster's effects, but the Prince and Princess chose to visit them.

I feel this subtle shift in language to speaking of "refugees" is quite telling. I'd have to read back and see if reports of the Emperor's visits tended to use the word "evacuees" or "refugees" but I recall the former rather than the latter. Even so, as "refugees" has been used in a report concerning a very important member of the Imperial House, it can be taken as reflecting something of the Imperial perspective on this continuing disaster -- especially in relation to nuclear refugees and all that implies.

Apologies for the long post. Thanks to anyone who has had the patience to read through it!


Mike

edit on 14/4/11 by JustMike because: of some minor clarifications.




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