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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by maria81
well, Tokyo is still standing... and somehow it has been built. Likewise the tunnels in Japan.


Those were built during stable periods, not during 5.0 to 7.0 repeated aftershocks.


A laser could bore a hole. but lasers of that power require immense power (ie electricity) to operate, something that is in relatively short supply at the plant, since TEPCO keeps telling us they still haven't solved the power issues to get the cooling pumps running

Much of what you say might be doable... under normal circumstances and if handled by a qualified team of experts... We have neither in this case




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Just now....

Real-time, worldwide earthquake list

M 6.1, off the east coast of Honshu, Japan
39.587°N 143.357°E

Wednesday, April 13, 2011 19:57:23 UTC
Thursday, April 14, 2011 05:57:23 AM at epicenter

Depth: 11.20 km (6.96 mi)

Posted on 13 April 2011 | 7:57 pm
newsblogged.com...

Des

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator

Originally posted by Aeons
I suggest taking the company to the World Court, and seeing how well being charged with crimes against humanity and being sued by the Japanese people for ruining about 5% of their total available land goes over for their shareholders' profits.

Honestly, I don't think taking what's left of TEPCO at the end of this to Court (in any form) is going to solve anything. The issues are bigger than whatever corporate incompetence TEPCO might be guilty of. The bigger issue is the whole nuclear-power debate (again), which leads right into the broader renewable-energy debate (again). Obviously, different people here will have different opinions on both those issues. I won't derail the thread here with all that stuff - I think there's another thread for that type of thing already (if not a whole forum).

In true ATS fashion, obviously the only "realistic" (
) option is to ask the extraterrestrial races allegedly visiting our planet for help with our energy needs and cleaning-up our environmental messes. Short of that, see the above.

edit on 2011-4-13 by EnhancedInterrogator because: Spelling, grammar and/or formatting, etc.


I believe Aeons mind has a very mechanical bend to it that not only applies to machines , but to the grimy under working's of political tesseracts , in point I believe the idea is to make the real power brokers understand the public opinion focus option could drive the Tepco situation home as a meme linking corporate crime to corporate punishment in a capitol way across the board and not just in the nuke industry. When a company like Seimens pulls stake out of one of it's vampire offspring ( Areva ) power is starting to go to ground , court is rarely about law and in things like this it is the direction focus and QUANTITY of attention that are the only WMD's some people fear
edit on 13-4-2011 by Silverlok because: a and only were off for a bit , but their better now



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Aponi

Originally posted by Kailassa

Doesn't that picture make you wish you were there, holding a good sharp samurai sword?
I wonder if bowing originated as the human equivalent to an animal revealing its neck to show submission?

But in all fairness I have to ask myself if those are the people who deserve it. Do they make any real decisions?


Ummm if you look at the photo you will see it said President of TEPCO.... yeah those are the guys at the head of the snake... I was thinking the same thing as I was sharpening my WWII officer's katana
one swift swing.....

But then that would be too easy... they need to pay for this and make restitution... can't let them take the easy way out
No Seppuku for them
... that out is only for warriors
edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Real good catch. You have a good ear.

Why Areva? I was under the impression their only concern should be reactor 3.

Is it possible reactor 4 was being refuled to have MOX added. Is fresh MOX fuel in the spent fuel tank. In the other holding tank or already in the reactor.

With it's lid off.

And possibly leaking?



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
These are of course, very rough numbers, but they definately imply a staggering impact to Japan, in terms of land (at a premium in Japan), agricultural space unusable, and a range of cities/towns/villages to be adandonded. I can't even begin to calculate the population effected, but maybe somebody can take that up and calculate that for each of those radii.


Add to that the roughly 600 sq kilometers that is now permanently below see level (the orange areas that are now subject to high tides and has become part of the normal weather report)



And the reclaimed land in Tokyo bay that has liquified... (still no update on that yet as to what they plan to do to fix that)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

Can't be four there is no pool or much of anything else 'up-top' left there ( and if stuff is in the reactor that's bad because the pressure containment cap is visibly off ) If they are getting radiation out of four it's because corium some where in the building is heating up....a better geuss is that will come out later and say , oh did we say four , um we meant to say 6 or 2 ( or 5 , areva seemed to think that even with tempco's efforts the pools would be drying out about now )





Have you seen the above thermal image of No. 4? This was supposedly from 4/12 but I cannot remember what site has the original thermal images to verify. Sorry! If anyone can post a link to the original thermals I'd appreciate it. The above pic was posted in another board's discussion.

Now it doesn't really prove or disprove your theory that the pool is gone, but it does suggest there is heat in the reactor area that should not be there and heat where the pool should be. Maybe the pool just happened to dump corium in the reactor area, but the dispersion pattern doesn't seem to suggest that. It's too tight and controlled.

They've been giving a LOT of information today about No. 4. It would look extremely suspicious for them to say they've been talking nonstop about the wrong reactor. Funny as heck though (in a twisted way).

TEPCO update on No. 4



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Hi guys this was in my mail box and i thought it might be a way for you all to help even more.
I copied this from my Greenpeace e-mail>>>>

Today, you have the chance to be part of a world record attempt in support of renewable energy!

Did you know that Facebook - the social network website that so many people love and use every day - uses coal- and nuclear energy to power their massive data centres - their warehouses of servers where all our personal information is stored?

With this Guinness world record attempt, we are going to show Facebook staff the huge global support for renewable energy - by setting a world record for the most Facebook comments on a post in just 24 hours!

More than 1,500 comments have already been posted since we began, 32 minutes ago. At this pace we can make it - if you and your friends get involved too!

Click here, and leave as many comments as you like!
links.mailing.greenpeace.org...

edit on 13-4-2011 by rbrtj because: I slept in and this is 15 hours old but there is still time to support them.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
I wonder ..how do we calculate how much of the sea is uninhabitable ,


They have a very deep trench off the coast of Japan... I would imagine a lot of the heavy particles would settle down there. Hopefully that will help some. I saw maps of the ocean currents and particle movement a few days ago... and the movement northward of the radioactive water bears up with that model.

Most of it goes out to sea over the trench, but some of it moves up the coast. The blue is the main swirling currents in the north, the yellow the southern currents... the red is the 'hot' water. So the majority of the radiation will swirl around in that blue area over time and I believe that is part of Japan's main fishing area. Seems the southern yellow region will not be effected directly

This does not include movement of contaminated fish



edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Aponi
 


Actually it's my theory but also arnie gunderson's , and for as much as it's worth tepco's ( plus the photos are pretty damning ) , thermal image is neat and IF their is stuff in the core then the mox or weapons theories just got a gold star because TEPCO and Areva have said it was empty ( I mean you can see the secondary containment cap sitting in the off postion )

that thermal is interesting thought ...

if stuff is in the core they may have started using it as a trash can OR TEPCO and Areva have been hiding something all along , either way it's the smell of radioactive fish BBQ'n



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Aponi

Originally posted by Kailassa

Doesn't that picture make you wish you were there, holding a good sharp samurai sword?
I wonder if bowing originated as the human equivalent to an animal revealing its neck to show submission?

But in all fairness I have to ask myself if those are the people who deserve it. Do they make any real decisions?


Ummm if you look at the photo you will see it said President of TEPCO.... yeah those are the guys at the head of the snake... I was thinking the same thing as I was sharpening my WWII officer's katana
one swift swing.....

But then that would be too easy... they need to pay for this and make restitution... can't let them take the easy way out
No Seppuku for them
... that out is only for warriors
edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)


I didn't know if he was actually IN the picture. All I see are the tops of heads. Sometimes the text doesn't really match the picture but the topic of discussion. I'll go start building a forge.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Aponi
 


From your link... Caps my emphasis.


Some of the spent nuclear fuel rods stored in the No. 4 reactor building of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi power plant were confirmed to be damaged, but MOST of them are BELIEVED to be in sound condition, plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday.



There are those two words I've heard too much of from TEPCO.

Des



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Silverlok
I wonder ..how do we calculate how much of the sea is uninhabitable ,


They have a very deep trench off the coast of Japan... I would imagine a lot of the heavy particles would settle down there. Hopefully that will help some. I saw maps of the ocean currents and particle movement a few days ago... and the movement northward of the radioactive water bears up with that model.

Most of it goes out to sea over the trench, but some of it moves up the coast. The blue is the main swirling currents in the north, the yellow the southern currents... the red is the 'hot' water. So the majority of the radiation will swirl around in that blue area over time and I believe that is part of Japan's main fishing area. Seems the southern yellow region will not be effected directly

This does not include movement of contaminated fish



edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)


Okiecowboy made the observation that the water is likely much hotter than it's environment and thus may stay in a surface pattern longer than one might think based on it's weight alone ... unfortunately I think he is correct ( i wonder what kind of St. elmo's fire one gets from 'glow-rain' ) , plus a lot of marine life might find the warmer water more attractive which means that uptake (bio-accumulation) is going to play a huge factor in dispersal.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Aponi
 


do you have a link for that pic?



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Newbie here.
I don't think this was posted yet. Apologies if so.
Arnie talking on TV about #4.

I read the TEPCO statement posted earlier and related posts. I'm a little confused: what is the difference between the spent fuel not being covered (just burning off into the air) vs a fire? I thought that the spent fuel would just melt, not catch fire. That may be dumb question for you brainiacs but I'm a wee lay person. Thanks for your patience!

Thanks to this thread and the info provided here, I've been able to convince my sister in Las Vegas to stock up on baby formula now. Though, I wonder if it makes any difference to the background rads in that city. My other sister (who was born there and grew up there) had her thyroid removed at age 10 after abnormalities were discovered.

Peace



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by Aponi
 


Actually it's my theory but also arnie gunderson's , and for as much as it's worth tepco's ( plus the photos are pretty damning ) , thermal image is neat and IF their is stuff in the core then the mox or weapons theories just got a gold star because TEPCO and Areva have said it was empty ( I mean you can see the secondary containment cap sitting in the off postion )

that thermal is interesting thought ...

if stuff is in the core they may have started using it as a trash can OR TEPCO and Areva have been hiding something all along , either way it's the smell of radioactive fish BBQ'n


*nod* Very concerning. I'm not sure whether to be more worried about No. 1 or No. 4 now.

I need to go meditate or something...find a happy place...

BTW We really need a stinking fish emote.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by AlaskanDad
Topeco chose nitrogen injection to lower the chances of another hydrogen explosion...


Well they announced something else the other day in regards the nitrogen.



Injection of nitrogen gas into the Number 1 reactor containment vessel to prevent a hydrogen blast has been continuing without any interruptions.

But the pressure level inside the container has remained flat over the past few days, suggesting that certain gases may be leaking out of the vessel. The power company says there has been no significant change in radiation levels around the plant.


www3.nhk.or.jp...

There is no buildup in pressure so it is obvious that it has no containment and is leaking radioactive gases. In other words the more they pump in nitrogen, the more radioactive gases they are blowing out of the reactor because it cannot hold any pressure whatsoever

edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by maria81
reply to post by maria81
ok. create a chamber and line it with graphite.
drill many holes downward to hold the corium and line them with graphite.
drill the hole nearly beneath the corium and line it with graphite.
fill the whole chamber with nitrogen gas, so the graphite wouldn't be able to burn.
break through to the corium with drill.
corium will drip down the shaft and fill itself into the holes, forming spent fuel rods.
graphite is stable at up to 3600 degrees. (now argue against that...
)


Ok. Read back in this thread. Oh, about 200 pages ago we discussed at length how graphite is used in this reactor design and how contact with the radioactive elements makes it brittle first and then can actually catch fire and burn.

You can also find out more about graphite and nuclear accidents here:
Link


These events exposed the graphite moderator of the reactor to air, causing it to ignite.[2] The resulting fire sent a plume of highly radioactive smoke fallout into the atmosphere and over an extensive geographical area



fill the whole chamber with nitrogen gas, so the graphite wouldn't be able to burn.

Nitrogen can become extremely explosive and unstable. Graphite is likely to be effected by the extreme radiation and direct contact with the corium and it too can ignite, but perhaps not in a oxygen starved environment. Perhaps Redneck or some others could tell us, but I would guess there are so many radioactive elements + isotopes and variables in play here it's simply too hard to tell.


but you could also create a big chamber and fill it with sand and then let the corium flow into the chamber and get diluted and vitrified.

both ways can be done - and without any human having to endure heavy radiation.


I don't know of any example of anyone trying what you are proposing. Doesn't mean it hasn't been tried but you make it sound like it has... link?

How do you find the corium in the rock?

If you mean using robots how many radiation proof robots capable of digging a chamber through rock underwater do you think there are?

They tried robots in Chernobyl. They fizzed out and they had to use "bio robots" instead. None of the "bio robots" were in direct contact with the corium, of course, it would have killed them faster than they died anyway.


get the corium out of the site in small quantities


I'm perfectly serious with these questions here:

Keep in mind you are proposing that all this can be done without "any humans having to endure heavy radiation.."

What are you going to use to cut up tons of corium into small quantities?

How small?

What are you going to put these small quantities of corium in?

How are you going to transport it? Are you moving it in trucks? Are the robots driving?

Where are you transporting it too? Another site you are going to have to decontaminate?

How are you going to store it?

For how long are you going to store it?

How is this process more economical and efficient than keeping it where it is?

If you think your plan is so amazing then you should have a solution for all these questions. Can't wait to hear the answers.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by Aponi
 


do you have a link for that pic?


Sorry, all I have is the imageshack url. I'm still trying to remember where the heck the original thermal images are located to verify it. Too many sites bookmarked... Imageshack pic



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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I wonder what this is on the outside of the building ?? looks about the same temp doesn't it?




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