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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
 

I wonder ..how do we calculate how much of the sea is uninhabitable , we have no Chernobyl for that and half the area affected around the plant is in the sea, and for the large portion of the dump (fall-out)the way the wind has been blowing, so if we have a Chernobyl on land we have a Chernobyl + 70-80%? at sea

Yeah, I wonder about that. The good and bad to it is currents and dissipation. It will spread, which could be "good-ish" in the sense that it lowers the levels in any given area. However, that also means it will impact a wider area. Also, with all the dumping that I suspect they have-done or will-do into the ocean - we're in unknown territory again (as with the melt-down's themselves).


problem is all the ocean stuff respirating , plants , fish gills , stuff made most of water like brine shrimp...The uptake and bio-accumulation will be 1000's of times faster and more complete , it woudln't suprise me if less than 10% of the 'waste' ever gets to the bottom , and hence keep returning to certain shallow areas as part of the food chain ad nauseum




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
 

PS: I nearly had to cry when I calculated that out - thinking of how many families were going to go from being average middle-class "working Joe's" (or whatever the equivalent Japanese expression is), to loosing everything they ever had (in some cases including friends and family due to the earthquake and tsunami), and becoming refugee's overnight - completely dependent on the state and/or charity to just survive, much less start to build some new life for themselves.

Also, just for comparison's sake, you will note that the total land area of Japan is about 89% that of California:
  • The rough total land area of Japan is approximately 377,944 Square-Kilometers, or 145,925 Square-Miles (Source:Wikipedia)
  • The rough total land area of California is approximately 423,970 Square-Kilometers, or 163,696 Square-Miles (Source:Wikipedia)

Think about a similar event ocurring at either of these two Nuclear Power Plants on the California coast:
I will let you draw your own conclusions from that.

edit on 2011-4-13 by EnhancedInterrogator because: Spelling, formatting, grammar, etc.



I did last night while watching Boxer talk to some knob on the nuke commitee:



Listen to that bozo, and try to cultivate confidence...scary
why oh why does the phrase hit with a brick keep popping into my mind? and does he look like Lurch to anyone else?

(p.s. someone posted a cool version of this video editing in star trek brainhead dudes but I couldn't find it for the life of me )



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 





problem is all the ocean stuff respirating , plants , fish gills , stuff made most of water like brine shrimp...The uptake and bio-accumulation will be 1000's of times faster and more complete , it woudln't suprise me if less than 10% of the 'waste' ever gets to the bottom , and hence keep returning to certain shallow areas as part of the food chain ad nauseum


A question I have is how is all this "hot" water going to affect the water temps as well,.. I am thinking a thermocline will form with warmer water than normal near the surface...perhaps helping create more storms than normal as well??



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
 

I wonder ..how do we calculate how much of the sea is uninhabitable , we have no Chernobyl for that and half the area affected around the plant is in the sea, and for the large portion of the dump (fall-out)the way the wind has been blowing, so if we have a Chernobyl on land we have a Chernobyl + 70-80%? at sea

Yeah, I wonder about that. The good and bad to it is currents and dissipation. It will spread, which could be "good-ish" in the sense that it lowers the levels in any given area. However, that also means it will impact a wider area. Also, with all the dumping that I suspect they have-done or will-do into the ocean - we're in unknown territory again (as with the melt-down's themselves).


problem is all the ocean stuff respirating , plants , fish gills , stuff made most of water like brine shrimp...The uptake and bio-accumulation will be 1000's of times faster and more complete , it woudln't suprise me if less than 10% of the 'waste' ever gets to the bottom , and hence keep returning to certain shallow areas as part of the food chain ad nauseum


With radiation found in seaweed in both BC and WA and knowing most of the radioactive containments released from Fukushima Diiachi ended up in the N. Pacific I think a Geiger Counter might be a necessity when I'm fishing this summer here in AK. At least with radioactive seafood it can be easily tested not like the problems in Gulf which need lab analysis to find the contaminants.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 

Yeah, I saw that a while back.
All very troubling stuff.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Aponi
Just a quick comment concerning the idea of drilling through the bedrock to remove the corium: Unless the chance of success for any plan is statistically high, it is extremely unlikely to receive more than passing investigation. Maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't. There are too many factors to say with certainty; and as such, TEPCO cannot justify the HUGE COST to their shareholders. Ideally, one would say there's little to lose, give it a shot. Sadly, this is not an ideal world and questionable effectiveness will not likely spur costly initiative.

If you can figure out what solution is the cheapest while being the least damaging for the company, that's the one I'd put my money on them attempting. Note: I didn't say the least damaging for the citizens of Earth or the environment. They're only a small consideration in TEPCOs management of this situation.


I suggest taking the company to the World Court, and seeing how well being charged with crimes against humanity and being sued by the Japanese people for ruining about 5% of their total available land goes over for their shareholders' profits.

I think being threated with suits which will enrage every multinational company on the stockmarket should be about enough for some people with big sticks to persuade TEPCO that setting international precedent of this sort is NOT going to make them happy.

Don't do it because it is right. Don't do it because its cheap. Do it because if you don't, I *will* figure out how to say this in a way that makes the educated world populace think it is a good idea. And then TEPCO execs won't have to actually worry about being taken to court - they'll have to worry about becoming the targets of the nastiest rich bastards on Earth. Fix it so that this doesn't create precedent that can and will be used against ALL of them.

What's cheapest for TEPCO, is understanding that the threat to their existence is not just money related at this point.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by Aponi
Radiation surges above 4's fuel pool


Radiation has risen to high levels above the spent-fuel pool at reactor No. 4 and its temperature is rising, the nuclear safety agency said Wednesday, indicating the fuel rods have been further damaged and emitting radioactive substances.The radiation level 6 meters above the spent-fuel storage pool at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant was measured at 84 millisieverts per hour Tuesday. Normally, it's 0.1 microsievert......Tokyo Electric Power Co. was unsure whether the surge in radiation was being caused by the spent fuel rods or radioactive material leaking from the reactor's pressure vessel.


Perhaps someone could explain to me why radioactive material would be leaking from a reactor that supposedly had all of its fuel rods removed in December 2010. I remember seeing reactor pressure and temperature reports for No. 4 at the beginning of this crisis and having the same question then (though I didn't post it). Am I misunderstanding something? Or is this another slip up revealing the possibility that No. 4 was not shut down like they claim? Which begs the question: What were they really doing in No. 4 and how does that affect the current situation there?

Can't be four there is no pool or much of anything else 'up-top' left there ( and if stuff is in the reactor that's bad because the pressure containment cap is visibly off ) If they are getting radiation out of four it's because corium some where in the building is heating up....a better geuss is that will come out later and say , oh did we say four , um we meant to say 6 or 2 ( or 5 , areva seemed to think that even with tempco's efforts the pools would be drying out about now )



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Tworide

Originally posted by maria81

The alternative is feed and bleed into the ocean, (as for now they propose at least 3 to 5 years of it), and simply kill everything therein. And if the oceans are dead, the continents will die, too.


They'll practice the mantra of the '50s through '80s "The solution to pollution is dilution"
Unfortunately there has been massive amounts of radioactive waste dumped in the oceans by nations already.
It's estimated the Russians alone have dumped more than 90PBq of waste over 30yrs at what was secret dump sites.
books.google.com... OK5f9c9v0RraQeaInw4k-7bE&hl=en&ei=M7WlTb33CJOCtgeqtti9Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
That's petrabecuerels. 1 petrabecuerel=10 to the 15th becuerels.
en.wikipedia.org...
The total potential at Fukushima may just be drop in the bucket.



The problem is where and how it was dumped , the russians where trying to hide the stuff not dumping it free as a liquid straight into the most active and at risk part of the eco-system, I'm not condoning mind , it's just this thread as some pretty deep tracks on that road already posted



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
I suggest taking the company to the World Court, and seeing how well being charged with crimes against humanity and being sued by the Japanese people for ruining about 5% of their total available land goes over for their shareholders' profits.

Honestly, I don't think taking what's left of TEPCO at the end of this to Court (in any form) is going to solve anything. The issues are bigger than whatever corporate incompetence TEPCO might be guilty of. The bigger issue is the whole nuclear-power debate (again), which leads right into the broader renewable-energy debate (again). Obviously, different people here will have different opinions on both those issues. I won't derail the thread here with all that stuff - I think there's another thread for that type of thing already (if not a whole forum).

In true ATS fashion, obviously the only "realistic" (
) option is to ask the extraterrestrial races allegedly visiting our planet for help with our energy needs and cleaning-up our environmental messes. Short of that, see the above.

edit on 2011-4-13 by EnhancedInterrogator because: Spelling, grammar and/or formatting, etc.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Anmarie96
 





Shirakawa, they really wanted alot of information from him as we caught onto the mine blasts coming in from the East and Shirakawa learned and taught us how to tell the different signatures. Strange though, we have not heard from him since the begining of March 2010. Makes me wonder if he's under gag order - which makes me worry that we have not heard from The RedNeck!


Gag order. Too much information spot on.

Or recruited. Needed more input from outside sources.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
To get an idea of the scale of what the impact of this nuclear disaster will be (in terms of Japan), let's make some estimates as to how much land will be permanently uninhabitable. Using the past, current and proposed or discussed evactuation zones as a basis. The numbers are really quite staggering.

We can use the radius of the various evacutation zones to calculate the area of the circle that would be effected. Of course, being on the East coast of Japan, a large portion of that circle is actually out to sea. So, let's assume roughly half of that circle is represents the area of land that would be uninhabitable. The rough total land area of Japan is approximately 377,944 Square-Kilometers, or 145,925 Square-Miles (Source:Wikipedia)

  • 20 Kilometers (6.2 Miles) Radius = 1,256 Square-KM / 2 = 628 Square-KM (242 Square-Miles)
  • 30 Kilometers (18.6 Miles) Radius = 2,827 Square-KM / 2 = 1,413 Square-KM (545 Square-Miles)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by bitbytebit
doubtful - lol this forum isn't as important as you (and some others) think it is.


My dear Padiwan... I am afraid that it is YOU who is sadly mistaken about a great many things....


A "Defining Moment" for ATS - March, 2011
www.abovetopsecret.com...



Sure enough, this big news and information publisher shows just over 4,000 visits to ATS in our Google Analytics reports in the past ten days. Other big visitors in the media business during the past ten days are:
Fox News --- 3,787 visits
New York Times --- 2,814 visits
Newsweek --- 2,203 visits
Associated Press --- 2,016 visits
NewsCorp --- 2,004 visits
(among many others)


So be on your best behavior as this thread is much more important than you think...


PS Still waiting for our royalty check
Maybe we can get TEPCO to compensate our time correcting them

edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Another point I would just like to add to this thread. It makes me wonder if any opportunistic corporations or governments are going to use this disaster as a silent way of dumping some of their wastes into the oceans.

Food for thought at least...It probably wouldn't surprise me.

-Regards



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Anmarie96

If they are still dumping water and on some just enough to cool, wouldn't we be seeing steam? Wouldn't there be a bunch of chaos running about on the waters shore line? Another reason I think we are being fed stock photos on the webcam.


The only frantic activity I have seen since that one day of firetruck water dumping has been the Midnight Barge escapade where they were removing covered items with a war ship along side. Since the warship was pumping water TO the barge we know for certain the barge wasn't for water.

The barge and warship are gone... where is that floating platform? Look at all the photos since... you will see the fire trucks still abandoned in the same location they were on that one day of pumping..

The whole scenario is full of lies... you can't even get accurate dates on pictures
edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by Tworide
Figure that ~73% of Japan is mountainous, the population of ~123 million occupies about 25% of the land and the largest section of land that can be farmed is from the Kanto plain (Tokyo) to the Sendai plain. The Fukushima evacuation zone has taken a rather large bite out of the middle of breadbasket of Japan. One of the reasons they where hesitant to have a larger evacuation?
en.wikipedia.org...

Yep. Totally agree. Agriculture in Sendai being off-line due to the Tsunami was going to be bad enough in the short-term. Now, possibly having a large portion of it essentially permanently unusable due to radioactive contamination is going to be disastrous. They're going to have to find a way to stop the spread of air, water and soil contamination coming Fukushima, and develop new ways to decontaminate the soil already effected (or replace it?). Otherwise, you can kiss that "breadbasket" good bye.

On top of that, there's all the contamination in the Pacific affecting their fisheries in as-of-yet unknown ways/levels. They are a seafood-heavy diet over there too, as well as a major exporter. Well, maybe "were" (past-tense) is a better description now.

As another poster mentioned, maybe as a result of these "challenges" the Japanese will develop new previously unheard of way to do things like decontaminate the soil to be able to re-use it. Or maybe they'll just tear-down (another) mountain and use that as building material to replace the soil, or cover of it.

edit on 2011-4-13 by EnhancedInterrogator because: Grammar, spelling and formatting.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I agree 100%
it has happened in this thread more than once...remember the diapers??



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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PS Still waiting for our royalty check
Maybe we can get TEPCO to compensate our time correcting them

edit on 13-4-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)


haahahahah, better watch out Zorgon Tepco may want to hire you as a SUBCONTRACTOR, and I am pretty sure the job comes with a red shirt, and some duct tape



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons

I suggest taking the company to the World Court, and seeing how well being charged with crimes against humanity and being sued by the Japanese people for ruining about 5% of their total available land goes over for their shareholders' profits.

I think being threated with suits which will enrage every multinational company on the stockmarket should be about enough for some people with big sticks to persuade TEPCO that setting international precedent of this sort is NOT going to make them happy.

Don't do it because it is right. Don't do it because its cheap. Do it because if you don't, I *will* figure out how to say this in a way that makes the educated world populace think it is a good idea. And then TEPCO execs won't have to actually worry about being taken to court - they'll have to worry about becoming the targets of the nastiest rich bastards on Earth. Fix it so that this doesn't create precedent that can and will be used against ALL of them.

What's cheapest for TEPCO, is understanding that the threat to their existence is not just money related at this point.


*CHEER* Alright Aeons, we're going to take a donation to send you to law school (if you haven't already gone) so you can prosecute them. I ask for one stipulation: We want box seats in the courtroom.


Of course, the very fact that such a trial could affect other companies and economies (not to mention the politicians and officials who made it possible for TEPCO to do what it has) is all the reason needed by officials to ensure a trial never happens.


Or maybe I'm just extra cynical today. It's possible.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 

Kudos Zorgon...had to log back in to give you a star.....well done my Friend...well done ALL of us


Des ps, don't accept that job offer from TEPCO...they'll put you in charge of the "ladder" brigade. R4 is gonna burp soon.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheRemedial
Another point I would just like to add to this thread. It makes me wonder if any opportunistic corporations or governments are going to use this disaster as a silent way of dumping some of their wastes into the oceans.

Food for thought at least...It probably wouldn't surprise me.

-Regards


Can we say N. Korea?!



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