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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


We talked about Nitrogen injection here probably over a week ago. Some of us had the "bright idea" but more learned individuals said it's a no go because it would cause an explosion. Being smart enough to know I know nothing and was grasping at straws in the first place, I accepted what I was told. Seems the Tepco bunch agree with rural hicktown scientist guy (that's me) which makes me rather scared.

Another poster mentioned dry ice and I don't think it had as much doomsday potential, maybe that's why they are not using dry ice instead. Anyways we'll see much to our horror either way what happens by the looks of it.

Is it me or does it almost seem surreal in this world this year?




posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by TheRemedial
 


I have the ominous feeling that there will be more reactor explosions. I hope I am wrong.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 

Well, as I said yesterday, if they inject pure nitrogen gas into a reactor with exposed fuel rods and hence create a nitrogen-rich and oxygen-starved environment, then the zircalloy (that the rod casings are made of) reacts with the nitrogen exothermically. This can in fact create so much heat that the rods will melt, and in any case, such a reaction is bound to increase pressures.

I said yesterday that I hoped they wouldn't actually do this, but as they have then it's not unlikely they have simply caused more damage.

I'm appalled.


edit on 7/4/11 by JustMike because: typos



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Japanese tv news just reported that workers were evacuated from the plant right before the nitrogen injection was started because TEPCO is not sure what the result of the injection will be.

Like kaboom?
edit on 7-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


What would dry ice injection do Mike? Is there anything that you know of which could aid in cooling down the reactor without terrible potential consequences?

I'll contact Tepco

edit on 7-4-2011 by TheRemedial because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost
Japanese tv news just reported that workers were evacuated from the plant right before the nitrogen injection was started because TEPCO is not sure what the result of the injection will be.

Like kaboom?
edit on 7-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)


Good Gravy!

I thought the TEPCO operation was scary before. Now it's like a bad episode of Laurel and Hardy.

Whether they planned it this way or what, here is a synopsis of the nitrogen injection operation.

Step #1- Inject nitrogen into reactor pressure vessel that has a partially melted core.

Step #2- RUN AWAY!



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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Based upon Gunderson's latest, and the Arriva report, there may be very little zirconium that is not already combined with other metals in a big slug at the bottom of the containment building. Not sure what impact this would have on reactivity with nitrogen.

I think their public reason for the nitrogen flood is a red herring. You can vent hydrogen without needing to create a reducing environment. The hydrogen still needs to be vented, and you will still get hydrogen, from straight quenching of most metals, even in a reducing environment, so it does not prevent further formation. I think the graphite disc we have been told about in the bottom of containment is about to go up (due to the big slug of corium laying on it), and they are flooding to clear the oxygen from that situation, more than they are doing it to just reduce hydrogen.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


This is exactly the case Butcher... It's just like playing in the backyard with Hydrogen, redneck science wins the day in this episode of -Your Earth or: How I learned to live with letting my future dreams, hopes and aspirations hang on a thread being held by people who very well be less competent than myself.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Provided there are no further explosions we can expect a slow increase of contaminants over the next few decades or so. Here is a chart on thyroid cancer in children under 15 years old from locations close to Chernobyl.

Source




As you can see it takes a few years before effect take place. The above did not take into account the people that moved away after the disaster and only the population that remained.



edit on 7-4-2011 by Procharmo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by TheRemedial
 


Just realized I should be saying inert environment, rather than reducing. It's been a long time since university chem.

Sorry.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by TheRemedial
 

Good question. I'd need to dig around and found out if CO2 reacts with anything in there, but for what it's worth my intuition says to be wary of injecting anything that contains oxygen in any form. As CO2 has loads, there might be nasty effects if some kind of reaction occurs that allows the O2 to release. For one thing, it's obviously very good at providing an oxidising source for any volatile gases, and for another it could also accelerate corrosion or degradation of some metals.

However, there's also the pressure buildup problem: dry ice would sublime very rapidly under the temperatures inside a damaged reactor and therefore the large volumes of gas created could over-pressure the containment. According to Dr Braun's report (that I linked to in my post HERE a couple of pages back), the containment only has a wall thickness in places of around 3 cm and is only designed to take 4 to 5 bar of pressure... (Details on page 21 of Dr Braun's pdf document.)

At its sublimation point, dry ice expands from solid to gas at a ratio of 554 to 1. (Viz this Material Safety Data Sheet for Dry Ice. The expansion rate data are under section 9 of the document.)

It therefore seems likely that if ground-up dry ice was pumped into the reactor, its rapid expansion at a rate of more than 500:1 could be enough to raise the pressure by several bar and that could exceed the deisgn limits and make the containment fail.

Mike

edit on 7/4/11 by JustMike because: Added a detail.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by VinceH

Why does it look like the structure is getting progressively more deteriorated?

I'm not caught up by any means, but I feel compelled to explain this...

I have been watching the building(s) deteriorate as well. That simply doesn't happen at this speed under normal circumstances. Even a wooden building would not normally be showing such fast degradation, and this one is steel and concrete. So what gives?

HEAT. There is so much heat being generated underneath the building that the steel is rusting fast enough to be considered a slow 'burn'. Concrete exposed to high heat also tends to degrade rapidly. Now where is all this heat coming from? Simple... that core was designed to produce many hundreds of millions of watts of energy for a long time, plus enough waste energy to operate the steam lines. Now, without anything to slow it down, it is producing all that heat (and associated radiation) in a much faster time span. It's the equivalent of having a giga-watt heater sitting underneath that building.

Also, remember... it is producing that heat whether or not it is molten... temperature of the core is not an indicator of how much heat or radiation it is producing. Temperature only means how much heat it has or has not lost to the surrounding area. The cooling attempts were nothing more than attempts to keep it from melting into an uncontrollable blob (which it had already done).

So we have some serious heat emanating from below the reactor chamber of the building, plus a great deal of radiation leaking out into the seawater... so that would indicate that the seawater in question was also getting hot. Not hot as in radioactive (although it is getting radiated) but hot as in high temperatures. Every foot underwater you go, the temperature required for vaporization into steam increases.

The Pacific is not just becoming radioactive; it is becoming a radioactive hot tub. Not good for life to thrive in.

I won't be able to post much today (school), but I wanted to give everyone an explanation of this. I had hinted at it before, but finally someone else is noticing it.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Guys, we just had a big quake shake us here in Japan. BIG.

Was a 7.4 magnitude.


Tsunami alert.
edit on 7-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost
Guys, we just had a big quake shake us here in Japan. BIG.

Was a 7.4 magnitude.


Tsunami alert.
edit on 7-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)


Miyagi Pref. in northeastern Japan Stay Safe!
edit on 7-4-2011 by IDBIT because: ,



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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On Japanese tv news they just showed power blackouts hit Sendai city from a remote tower camera as the quake hit.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by IDBIT

Originally posted by MedievalGhost
Guys, we just had a big quake shake us here in Japan. BIG.

Was a 7.4 magnitude.


Tsunami alert.


Miyagi Pref. in northeastern Japan Stay Safe!


Thanks.


No word yet on damage to Fukushima plant.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 

This will also shake things very badly at Daiichi...

Tsunami is not expected to be much over one metre, they say, but all the same, this is a BIG quake in the greater scheme of things and the last thing they need...

Hope you are okay where you are, MG!



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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ut oh


Magnitude 7.4
Date-Time Thursday, April 07, 2011 at 14:32:41 UTC
Thursday, April 07, 2011 at 11:32:41 PM at epicenter

Location 38.253°N, 141.640°E
Depth 25.6 km (15.9 miles)
Region NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
Distances 66 km (41 miles) E (90°) from Sendai, Honshu, Japan
118 km (73 miles) ENE (60°) from Fukushima, Honshu, Japan
147 km (91 miles) NNE (26°) from Iwaki, Honshu, Japan
333 km (207 miles) NNE (30°) from TOKYO, Japan

Location Uncertainty horizontal +/- 13.1 km (8.1 miles); depth +/- 7.2 km (4.5 miles)
Parameters NST=426, Nph=427, Dmin=358.4 km, Rmss=0.75 sec, Gp= 32°,
M-type=regional moment magnitude (Mw), Version=B
Source U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center:
World Data Center for Seismology, Denver

Event ID usc0002ksa


Source


1 or 2?

7.4 2011/04/07 14:32:41 38.253 141.640 25.6 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
7.4 2011/04/07 14:32:00 38.200 142.000 40.0 NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN

Source
edit on 7-4-2011 by Anmarie96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Ghost...stay safe...do what you need to do, to stay safe.

Des



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost
Guys, we just had a big quake shake us here in Japan. BIG.

Was a 7.4 magnitude.


Tsunami alert.
edit on 7-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)


Location can be found here. Our thoughts and prayers are with you all.



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