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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by silent thunder
 


what's the mood of the public like nowdays?
thanks


I think there is a large degree of denial but if you walk around the streets its easy to lose yourself in the perceived normlacy. Ever since this event I have noticed a kind of nihilsitic abandon bubble up in certain contexts, usually inappropriately. Panic sex. I have tried to put it into words before but never completely satisfactorially. There is a kind of very Japanese/Northeast-Asian "closing ranks"/patriotism effect at work on some level, too, whereby excessive talking about or complaining about the situation is somehow frowmed upon. Actually this should be viscerally undertstandable to most people on the board; witness the sentiment in NYC following 9-11, etc.

I think the city will hold up and pull through if (big if) the radiation does not become a significant issue.




posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by silent thunder

Please be ready to bunker in, just in case. It looks like they will be getting a substantial spike in readings. The spike will be rather short-lived, but there could be trouble in the streets. That's a lot of (gullible) people to panic.

TheRedneck

Thanks for your concern. It will be an interesting 24 hours.

I'd like to think I know what I'm doing better than most but of course if things reach a certain creshendo, all bets are off.

Just rememeber my odds. 70-30. The old seeeeventyyyy-thiiiirrrrty.
edit on 4/7/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by silent thunder

Please be ready to bunker in, just in case. It looks like they will be getting a substantial spike in readings. The spike will be rather short-lived, but there could be trouble in the streets. That's a lot of (gullible) people to panic.

TheRedneck


First off, this is my second attempt at posting this because I hit a key and the first one got wiped out. This is unfortunate because this duplicate is not worded nearly as well, but here goes anyway.

I don't want to sound dumb here.....but posts like this one confuse me. I try to follow along with everything you say along the way so that I can get a clear picture and a clear understanding of what is happening, but sometimes I guess I lose the plot. In your previous post, it was my understanding that you were saying that things are looking increasingly bad for Japan, but then in this one you say that a temporary spike in readings will cause "gullible people to panic". I don't know what you mean by that. Unless you are saying that because it will be Iodine-131 which has a relatively short half life. Is that what you mean? What about the Cesium though? Won't they be getting that as well? Obviously I agree that people shouldn't panic, but I don't understand what you are getting at with the gullible part. Can you clarify?



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by MedievalGhost

snip

Is anyone even surprised by this?
edit on 6-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)


Not in the slightest.

Trying to catch up, yada yada, you all know...



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by kismetphayze

Sorry for the confusion... I only mean that the Japanese people are being lied to by their government, and while most are going for that bait, some are beginning to wake up and see things are really not as rosy as they are told. Should enough high readings be seen in Tokyo, I can imagine a mixture of anger at the government for lying so blatantly and fear that they have no idea just how bad it really is.

Anger and fear together is a very volatile mixture.

The spike from this cloud will probably be short-lived, but the entire area is going to have overall increasing radioactive contamination for some time. This is only the first (second?) wave of many.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
Thanks for your concern. It will be an interesting 24 hours.

I'd like to think I know what I'm doing better than most but of course if things reach a certain creshendo, all bets are off.

Just rememeber my odds. 70-30. The old seeeeventyyyy-thiiiirrrrty.
edit on 4/7/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)


Good luck, Silent Thunder. You'll be in my thoughts and I wish you and everyone else in Japan the absolute best.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:17 AM
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www.fairewinds.com...
Conclusions and recommendations From Arnies report
1. The ECRR risk model has been applied to the 3 million people living in the100km radius of the Fukushima catastrophe. Assuming these people remain living there for one year the number of excess cancers predicted by the method is approximately 200,000 in the next 50 years with 100,000 being diagnosed in thenext 10 years. If they are evacuated immediately, the number will fall by asignificant amount. For those 7 million living between 100km and 200km from the site, the predicted number of cancers is slightly greater with 220,000 extra cancers in the next 50 years and about 100,000 being expressed in the next tenyears. These predictions are based on the ECRR risk model and also the findingsof cancer risk on Sweden after the Chernobyl accident.
2. The ICRP model predicts 2838 extra cancers in the 100km population. The eventual yield will therefore be another test of the two risk models.
3. Calculations based on official gamma dose rates published by the Japanese Ministry MEXT can be used to back calculate surface contamination at thepositions of the measurements using accepted scientific methods. The resultsshow that the IAEA reports have significantly under reported the contaminationlevels
4. It is recommended that urgent attention is given to making isotope specificground contamination measurements.
5. It is recommended that populations living within the 100km zone to the NorthWest of the site are immediately evacuated and the zone is made an exclusion zone.
6. The ICRP risk model should be abandoned and all political decisions shouldbe made on the basis of the recommendations of the European Committee on Radiation Risk www.euradcom.org...
This is the conclusion of the eminentradiation risk experts who signed the 2009 Lesvos Declaration
7. Investigation and legal sanctions should be brought against those who knowingly held back data from the public
8. Investigation and legal sanctions should be brought against those minimising the health effects of this event in the media.


edit on 7-4-2011 by rbrtj because: I had to un clump some words after i posted it sorry



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Thanks, Redneck. I understand now. It was pretty much what I expected you meant, but I wanted to clarify because I'm one of those that's learning as we go, and I don't want to be thinking something is worse than it is. I totally understand about the anger and panic. The sad thing is that if people were told the truth sooner, I think it could prevent a lot of that panic because people would have some time to get as prepared as possible. Then again, I guess if the government came out and told people to get prepared, even if it was days or weeks away, people would panic right at that moment....panic that there wouldn't be enough "stuff" to get their hands on to protect themselves and their family...It would be less dramatic though.... forewarned is forearmed.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
I wonder if those cows would mind if I joined them out back? I would like to have a little discussion with TEPCO myself....



Gonna be crowded out back...

Seems they are NOW talking increasing the evacuation zone




posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by LilFox
 


Pluto-man to the rescue.......



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by LilFox
 


WOW
I am going to sleep so much better tonight thanks to that



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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I don't think the media grey out has been to keep people from panicking as much as it has been to keep people from becoming anti-nuclear energy. Well for at least the rest of the world. Rachel Maddow WAS giving this situation great coverage in the beginning, but even she is not speaking much about it. Such a shame. Of course I don't cut her pay checks, and she has made it clear a number of times that GE is part owner of MSNBC, so perhaps she was getting pressured.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by silent thunder
 


what's the mood of the public like nowdays?
thanks


I think there is a large degree of denial but if you walk around the streets its easy to lose yourself in the perceived normlacy. Ever since this event I have noticed a kind of nihilsitic abandon bubble up in certain contexts, usually inappropriately. Panic sex. I have tried to put it into words before but never completely satisfactorially. There is a kind of very Japanese/Northeast-Asian "closing ranks"/patriotism effect at work on some level, too, whereby excessive talking about or complaining about the situation is somehow frowmed upon. Actually this should be viscerally undertstandable to most people on the board; witness the sentiment in NYC following 9-11, etc.

I think the city will hold up and pull through if (big if) the radiation does not become a significant issue.


So it's sort of the "take it on the chin" effect.

Admirable on the one hand, could be foolish on the other. Only time will tell...



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by LilFox
 


I think whoever made this should be asked to drink plutonium everyday. If they believe what they say they should have no problem with that, right?



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by okiecowboy
I am going to sleep so much better tonight thanks to that


I wonder how many of THESE are on that whole site? And where are they now?






posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
Whew...caught back up on my reading. Great job everyone


I have a question I want to pose - in the off chance anyone ever gets a chance to ask a question at one of these news conferences.

Here is a map for our reference of the Fukushima I site. I found it nicely detailed for our purposes.


source


One thing you may note on the map is dry cask storage. A topic we haven't touched on too much. What? More rods at Fukushima? Yep. Add dry cask storage to six nuclear reactors, six spent storage pools (repacked for tightness just like the U.S. has chosen to do in the reactor buildings), a big common storage pool (also on map) and the dry cask storage to boot. Grand.

A note on repacking fuel pools for extra snugginess:


Both United States and Japanese governments have for decades allowed re-racking of the pools to reduce the originally-designed minimum safe distance between the assemblies so that more rods can be stored in each pool. Utilities complained they were running out of storage space on site at the reactors. The problem is if the spent fuel gets too close, they will produce a fission reaction and explode with a force much larger than any fission bomb given the total amount of fuel on the site. All the fuel in all the reactors and all the storage pools at this site (1760 tons of Uranium per slide #4) would be consumed in such a mega-explosion. In comparison, Fat Man and Little Boy weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki contained less than a hundred pounds each of fissile material.

According to Donnay, “Several cores worth of spent fuel are usually stored in these pools until they are cool enough to transfer into dry cask storage. In comparison, the reactor itself contains only one core, and its total radioactivity is less than that in each spent core.”


Onward and upward...

Th question: Are all the dry casks stored at Fukushima accounted for?


According to Donnay, there is an additional danger from used fuel being stored in casks: “I'm also worried about the dry cask storage pods that were on the site before the tsunami.

Full casks are very heavy and probably would not be carried away by the flood, but some were probably not full. Any that were only partially filled with spent fuel would have air locked into the unfilled chambers, making them able to float in water. Did the tsunami carry any of these casks away? Are they all still onsite?


So...could we have nuclear bumper boats floating with tsunami debris in the ocean too?

yikes.

Source

Thanks all.
edit on 6-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: Last attempt to fix the link. If it still shows...copy and paste into your browser...don't know why it's broken.


Maybe I fixed the link?



The tsunami scraped entire villages and towns off the surface of the map, literally. Go look at google earth, they've updated a lot of the coastline north and south of the plant, you can see places where only a handful ob buildings remain amongst piles of rubble. It's truly heart wrenching.

Even at a few tons, moving a cask or a dozen won't be too hard. Just how heavy are these things? I know it depends on load, etc but a rough estimate would be good.

If I'm reading that map correctly, this is the cask storage facility:



We need to see a seaward view of this building up close to be able to make a better determination as to possible damage.

I'm almost caught up...



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by NoAngel2u
 


Oh yeah, you are right about that as well. Wouldn't want to hurt the nuclear industry. I was very impressed with some of Rachel Maddow's original pieces. Sad that she isn't saying much now, but I'm also not surprised. In the few clips I watched, she made comments that eluded to the fact that she was feeling some "heat" for reporting the way she was.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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I think most of knew that the boom at 3 was bad, but if it really did come from the bowels of the RPV, then it must have been really really bad. Makes sense that the US navy got out of there ASAP and why it hit them so fast / hard.

Redneck already said this, but it's worth mentioning again:


Originally posted by TheRedneck
I'm talking hundreds of Sieverts/hour...

TheRedneck


Sieverts/h ... not milli, not micro, HUNDREDS of SIEVERTS! Have a look at your handy-dandy radiation charts and see what happens when exposed to that! Granted it drops off really quick, but what got blown up in the boom at #3 was nasty dangerous stuff.

I do have a question about the pictures though. This was brought up a few times in the last several hundred pages, but I never answered (unless I missed it, which is entirely possible).

Why does it look like the structure is getting progressively more deteriorated?

Every time we see another picture, it looks like things have "aged" by 50 years. I know the original paint scheme was "splotchy"; not worried about that. But look at the steel + concrete. Things were a big mess after the blast(s), but now it looks like everything is just crumbling. The steel in the pictures posted by SDoradus is a prime example. In the initial pictures, stuff was blown apart and bent, but a lot was still intact. Now, the middle of the large steel structure appears to have "melted" in the middle. The steel has changed colors too. And what about all the twisted lengths of "whatever" (grey/white/silver) that are curling up? Too big to be fuel rods, but what are they and why are they like that? I don't remember seeing them like that in the initial footage. A lot more straight / bent stuff but not this twisty / droopy / melted appearance.

Now, I know radiation has adverse effects on a lot of materials, but unless the numbers are way out of wack (I'd guesstimate by at least a 1000 times), I don't think it would be enough to have that affect on structural materials?



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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Watching what's going on in Japan is kind of like being in a serious car accident and experiencing time slowing down. Your face is heading towards the windshield. The car is careening off the road toward a big tree. You know the gas line and gas tank just ruptured and metal is sparking. You fight desperately for control, while all the while you have this weird almost out-of-body separation of consciousness as if it was all happening to someone else.

Every night I go to bed wondering if Japan will still "be there" in the morning. I want it to be OK, but yet there's also this strange fascination watching doom unfold inexorably before your eyes in slow motion. And all the while you know what's going to happen when your face hits the windshield, the car hits the tree, and the sparks hit the gas. And you know there really isn't much you can do to stop it.

So very sad...



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