It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 578.htm
513
<< 575  576  577    579  580  581 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 07:57 PM
link   
Whew...caught back up on my reading. Great job everyone


I have a question I want to pose - in the off chance anyone ever gets a chance to ask a question at one of these news conferences.

Here is a map for our reference of the Fukushima I site. I found it nicely detailed for our purposes.


source


One thing you may note on the map is dry cask storage. A topic we haven't touched on too much. What? More rods at Fukushima? Yep. Add dry cask storage to six nuclear reactors, six spent storage pools (repacked for tightness just like the U.S. has chosen to do in the reactor buildings), a big common storage pool (also on map) and the dry cask storage to boot. Grand.

A note on repacking fuel pools for extra snugginess:


Both United States and Japanese governments have for decades allowed re-racking of the pools to reduce the originally-designed minimum safe distance between the assemblies so that more rods can be stored in each pool. Utilities complained they were running out of storage space on site at the reactors. The problem is if the spent fuel gets too close, they will produce a fission reaction and explode with a force much larger than any fission bomb given the total amount of fuel on the site. All the fuel in all the reactors and all the storage pools at this site (1760 tons of Uranium per slide #4) would be consumed in such a mega-explosion. In comparison, Fat Man and Little Boy weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki contained less than a hundred pounds each of fissile material.

According to Donnay, “Several cores worth of spent fuel are usually stored in these pools until they are cool enough to transfer into dry cask storage. In comparison, the reactor itself contains only one core, and its total radioactivity is less than that in each spent core.”


Onward and upward...

Th question: Are all the dry casks stored at Fukushima accounted for?


According to Donnay, there is an additional danger from used fuel being stored in casks: “I'm also worried about the dry cask storage pods that were on the site before the tsunami.

Full casks are very heavy and probably would not be carried away by the flood, but some were probably not full. Any that were only partially filled with spent fuel would have air locked into the unfilled chambers, making them able to float in water. Did the tsunami carry any of these casks away? Are they all still onsite?


So...could we have nuclear bumper boats floating with tsunami debris in the ocean too?

yikes.

[url=http://dcbureau.org/201103141303/Natural-Resources-News-Service/fission-criticality-in-cooling-ponds-threaten-explosion-at-fukushima.html]Source[ /url]


Thanks all.
edit on 6-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: Last attempt to fix the link. If it still shows...copy and paste into your browser...don't know why it's broken.




posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 07:59 PM
link   
Responding to some folks who think that urban dwellers are doomed, lol. It's possible to grow your own food, even if you are in an urban environment or short on yard space. Lots of communities here in Vancouver have "community gardens" where apartment dwellers rent a piece of a larger garden and grow whatever they like there. Many condo developments are also starting "roof-top" gardens.

Container gardening using "square foot garden techniques" can actually produce a pretty high yield. Depending on the size you have available on your balcony you can grow many of your own veggies. There are techniques for growing food vertically (ie: growing tomatoes upside down) that can take advantage of "hanging gardens" as well. For folks with tiny plots of land you can actually grow quite a lot of food. There are also kits and other things you can buy to help the urban gardener get started.

Wiki - square foot gardening

Square foot gardening concept.

Square foot gardening blog

So, while the vast majority won't prepare, I think there many folks, yes even urbanities, who get the idea of self-sufficiency, want to be less reliant on others, and eat healthier nutrient dense less toxic food.
edit on 6-4-2011 by Wertwog because: spelling mistake



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:14 PM
link   
Caught up on the thread a bit and am concerned we've missed something about this liquid nitrogen injection. Are they really risking a BOOM? Perhaps Redneck can help us out here as it was discussed some 100 pages back or so that it produces some uber explosive. Could they really be that blonde (no offence to any blondes here who are obviously quite intelligent to be on ATS), or is their some other reason why they might desire an explosion?

Also, anyone remember the TANK? It was around the 16th or so they said they were bringing in a tank for it's extra shielding. I think this is what they might be using to bulldoze things and shove pipes and such around.
edit on 6-4-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:16 PM
link   
reply to post by comawhite12
 


wow I am sorry I missed that somehow, I like that concrete sliding thing in this context and it matches , if the reactor did tip and launch it's caps ( plural ) it would explain everything we can see quite nicely , including the non-explosive booms. IF the caps blew after the reactor tiped they would have hit those concrete bits and propelled them ahead of the caps .It also is in line with the reason one side is blown off more than the other better than my lopsided pool theory , and I have to say it correlates with SFA437 ideas quite nicely (so again sorry for stepping on your dick a couple of times back there ;-)


edit on 6-4-2011 by Silverlok because: half does not have a have



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Silverlok
 


No worries! It took me a little fiddling time with my imaging program to actually project what I thought I was seeing. Thats why we are here. To bounce ideas and theory off of each other.
Keep up the good work!



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Silverlok
reply to post by comawhite12
 


wow I am sorry I missed that somehow, I like that concrete sliding thing in this context and it matches , if the reactor did tip and launch it's caps ( plural ) it would explain everything we can see quite nicely , including the non-explosive booms. IF the caps blew after the reactor tiped they would have hit those concrete bits and propelled them ahead of the caps .It also is in line with the reason one side is blown off more than the other better than my lopsided pool theory , and I half to say it correlates with SFA437 ideas quite nicely (so again sorry for stepping on your dick a couple of times back there ;-)



No worries brother- sorry for getting snotty


That additional piece of info back there just ties everything into a nice, neat and most importantly- logical sequence of events on what happened to the #3 reactor and turbine building.

What is messed up is that I honestly believe the collective mind here has provided more solid evidence of what happened to this facility than all of the MSM and TEPCO press releases combined.

The amount of info I have processed and absorbed over the past few weeks is astounding. Having contributed in a small way to the proceedings is kind of awe inspiring and a lot more satisfying than trying to figure out where haji stashed his 120mm tubes



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:29 PM
link   
Does anyone have accurate Intell on this fall out from a reliable source? lol like their own equipment? If the Japanese were killing the entire food chain supply they wouldn't ever admit it. If you understand the culture. They would lose face.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:30 PM
link   
This guy is right, we should not be concentrating on the 6 reactor cores. The 6 reactor cores are nothing (probably waiting for full melt down on all 6) compared to the spent fuel rods.


Originally posted by DancedWithWolves
Whew...caught back up on my reading. Great job everyone


I have a question I want to pose - in the off chance anyone ever gets a chance to ask a question at one of these news conferences.

Here is a map for our reference of the Fukushima I site. I found it nicely detailed for our purposes.


source


One thing you may note on the map is dry cask storage. A topic we haven't touched on too much. What? More rods at Fukushima? Yep. Add dry cask storage to six nuclear reactors, six spent storage pools (repacked for tightness just like the U.S. has chosen to do in the reactor buildings), a big common storage pool (also on map) and the dry cask storage to boot. Grand.

A note on repacking fuel pools for extra snugginess:


Both United States and Japanese governments have for decades allowed re-racking of the pools to reduce the originally-designed minimum safe distance between the assemblies so that more rods can be stored in each pool. Utilities complained they were running out of storage space on site at the reactors. The problem is if the spent fuel gets too close, they will produce a fission reaction and explode with a force much larger than any fission bomb given the total amount of fuel on the site. All the fuel in all the reactors and all the storage pools at this site (1760 tons of Uranium per slide #4) would be consumed in such a mega-explosion. In comparison, Fat Man and Little Boy weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki contained less than a hundred pounds each of fissile material.

According to Donnay, “Several cores worth of spent fuel are usually stored in these pools until they are cool enough to transfer into dry cask storage. In comparison, the reactor itself contains only one core, and its total radioactivity is less than that in each spent core.”


Onward and upward...

Th question: Are all the dry casks stored at Fukushima accounted for?


According to Donnay, there is an additional danger from used fuel being stored in casks: “I'm also worried about the dry cask storage pods that were on the site before the tsunami.

Full casks are very heavy and probably would not be carried away by the flood, but some were probably not full. Any that were only partially filled with spent fuel would have air locked into the unfilled chambers, making them able to float in water. Did the tsunami carry any of these casks away? Are they all still onsite?


So...could we have nuclear bumper boats floating with tsunami debris in the ocean too?

yikes.

[url=http://dcbureau.org/201103141303/Natural-Resources-News-Service/fission-criticality-in-cooling-ponds-threaten-explosion-at-fukushima.html]Source[ /url]


Thanks all.
edit on 6-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: Last attempt to fix the link. If it still shows...copy and paste into your browser...don't know why it's broken.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:33 PM
link   
reply to post by Wertwog
 


I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be an "innovative" attempt to produce NH3 /NH4, and turn the whole thing into a giant commercial powered refrigeration system , Commercial systems heat ammonia liquid and it undergoes an endothermic (absorbs heat) reaction becoming ammonia gas, condense repeat

A single-pressure absorption refrigerator uses three substances: ammonia, hydrogen gas, and water. At standard atmospheric conditions, ammonia is a gas with a boiling point of -33°C, but a single-pressure absorption refrigerator is pressurised to the point where the ammonia is a liquid. The cycle is closed, with all hydrogen, water and ammonia collected and endlessly reused.
that will only work , theoretically, in a totally closed system (it's still highly corrosive)

or in a different direction you might get extra heat to create a corium 'drill"

or boom from hot per-oxides

or...

hell it's a desperation move all we know for sure is that they are adding nitrogen to rty to displace oxygen in a radioactive environment that is hot and has hydrogen ,

the most likely outcome is a giant cloud of radioactive posion gas NH3(ammonia) ,
oh and I can prove Tepco is image tampering the web cam, but I have an emergency so .....



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:36 PM
link   
I see the ATS night shift is hard at work. The ineptness of TEPCO still has me in a state of shock. Coming here to the forum, at least lets me know I'm not alone. Love how the guys and gals here, put aside differences to get down to the nitty gritty of what is really happening. Would that governments and corporations could do something even close to what gets accomplished here.

Des



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:41 PM
link   
reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


One thing is for sure the Japanese are extremely intelligent. The know they live in the ring of fire for earthquakes and tsunami's. They are also extremely sensitive about nuclear radiation as they should be.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that they picked the most advanced and safest nuclear reactor that was as earthquake and natural disaster proof as humanly possible.

Which is very very scary to think about considering that almost all or most of the the USA's reactors are 30 year old designs.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


One thing is for sure the Japanese are extremely intelligent. The know they live in the ring of fire for earthquakes and tsunami's. They are also extremely sensitive about nuclear radiation as they should be.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that they picked the most advanced and safest nuclear reactor that was as earthquake and natural disaster proof as humanly possible.

Which is very very scary to think about considering that almost all or most of the the USA's reactors are 30 year old designs.


Please tell me you are being facetious....please



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:58 PM
link   
According the the NRC, there has been leakage of molten fuel from the core of reactor 2 into the outer containment vessel.

This seems to be breaking news. It's not clear based on this where the NRC got their information.

www.nytimes.com...

This may have been posted on an earlier page today and I missed it - but even if so, I think this is important enough that it get's posted again here.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:11 PM
link   
While researching the reaction of liquid nitrogen and radioactive fuel, found this nifty online book. Good reference.

Wiley Guide to Chemical Incompatibilities
By Richard P. Pohanish, Stanley A. Greene

books.google.com... OvBac1fzYfwZVG6V74V9dNOVjY&hl=en&ei=iRudTdrsCc3Atgfo4uXWBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&

ETA: Methinks TEPCO is trying for a repeat performance...alas, Chernobyl was only one reactor.


It took more than a week before a viable plan to stop the uncontrolled release of raw radioactive material into the environment was formulated. It took another two days to make it happen after the plans were put into effect. Tons upon tons of liquid nitrogen were continually pumped into the massive catacomb-like support area below the floor of the reactor compartment, eventually freezing the completely destroyed reactor fuel cell. By freezing the area, the flow of radioactive gasses ceased. After the radioactive gas flow ceased, workers kept pumping in liquid nitrogen while hundreds upon hundreds of truckloads of fresh, wet concrete were poured into and on top of the reactor compartment, as well as the rest of the decimated building. On the 15th day of the Chernobyl accident, the enormous concrete mass had fully set up and solidified, so the liquid nitrogen was no longer needed.

www.hiroshimasyndrome.com...
edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:16 PM
link   

Looking For #3 Fuel Assembly Crane



I'm still looking for the #3 crane. I know others are looking for the reactor lid or trining to see if the reactor containment is shattered. So I've enhanced three different crop images of the top of the number three reactor building. Left is South Right is North Top is West.

What follows is a quick analysis of the picture from what I know about the reactor floor layout with the express goal of finding that missing crane, which is a massive piece of equipment and not easy to lose. It should be sitting right out in the open.

In the comments I divide the image up into 6 equal squares. Since we are talking about Japan the squares are lettered left to right and top to bottom. As in the following diagram;
GDA
HEB
I FC

The pictures are refereed to as 1,2 & 3 top to bottom.
Picture 1 has the least resolution.

Grid
A: I notice a blue box either an air conditioner or other large piece of equipment
There is a yellow rectangular something in the left of this grid and at the lower center, is a strange green plate with a horizontal stripe in it. Could this be part of the missing crane?

B: In the center of this grid is a piece of green mangled equipment the same color as the plate seen in grid A. I believe that they could be part of the same machine. This could be the missing crane. It has definite edges and what appear to be railings as part of it.
Underneath this equipment is a large round floor plate with what appears to be a manhole cut into it. I have no idea what that is.

edit- I notice that there is a similar smaller plate like the one above to the right of the larger plate, it also has a vertical slot cut in it as if it was part of the spine of a dessicated dinosaur.

C: In some of the images below the round floor is a large hole that lets you see deeper inside the reactor building. There appears to be a roundish structure below. In the lower part of this image laying on top of the roof ribs is a long black cylinder with a pointed end kind of looking like a giant plumb bob. On of the images shows a silver ring on the bottom part of this device as if it was meant to be pressure fit into something and maintain a seal.

D: Back to the top grid D is obscured by steam/smoke in the top two images. Image three however clearly shows two parallel brownish boxes or panels that stretch downward into grid E. This is where I would expect the reactor opening to be Instead I see this thing that reminds me of an upside down catamaran.

E: Copious clouds of steam are rising from grid E and drifting west over grid D. I expect this is from the reactor.

F.In this grid is a strange roller looking object Like a fancy toilet paper dispenser. Notice at the bottom of this grid the wall column is broken and leaning toward the center of the building west. On the west side of the building ALL the top level columns are broken off and folded over to the ground. (can't see them in this picture)

G: Floor panel is blown out and missing. On the left and continuing into grid H is an orange box/equipment that is covered in rubble.

H: Smoke. This would be the reactor 3 spent fuel pool on fire. Likely the source of plutonium contamination of the site. Poolium smoke, don't breath this.

So I have two candidates for the fuel reloading crane. If any one can identify anything else in these images please let me know.I'm particularly interested in the round floor bit and the plumb bob.

I:

Right click and select View Image or Save image to your local system to view the whole thing.


edit on 6-4-2011 by SDoradus because: pointed out second spine component



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by PhysicsAlive
According the the NRC, there has been leakage of molten fuel from the core of reactor 2 into the outer containment vessel.

This seems to be breaking news. It's not clear based on this where the NRC got their information.

www.nytimes.com...

This may have been posted on an earlier page today and I missed it - but even if so, I think this is important enough that it get's posted again here.


So if number 2 "creeps", we be back into meltdown with it all over again.

And now I hear the theme song from "The Neverending Story" in my head.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:30 PM
link   
In the same vein of the directional debris field of #3, There is something in the enclosed channel that might be conected.


I inverted the colors to make it a bit easier to see. There is a roundish shadow to the right of the rectangle figure. It appears to be something laying on the bottom. I had seen this area circled quite a few pages back, but I just noticed it is on the same trajectory as the support beams.
Wonder if it is your missing reactor cap?



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:30 PM
link   
Having been one of the few to bring up Liquid Nitrogen or Helium 3 and sending it into the reactors hundreds of pages ago. I am nervous and anxious, hoping that the nitrogen idea works out but keeping in mind what one of our members mentioned about it possibly causing an explosion.

I just want the the brunt of this problem to end so we can start to right the rest of them, ASAP.


edit on 6-4-2011 by TheRemedial because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:37 PM
link   
reply to post by PhysicsAlive
 


well it may be why they are tampering the web cam. After they left out the nightlight on the 5th(US daytime) enhancing for anything became extremely difficult because the signal to noise ratio went thru the roof ( in short too damn "gritty" to tell heads from tails ), but being a fellow undaunted by lack of intelligence ,experience, knowledge, or skill I took a stab at milking a stone and to my amazement got this:




I am not going to say HOW just yet , but with only two filters and NO transformations I got this highly geometrically edged image to actually pop out of the 3-5-11 night image and the 3-6-11 night image . IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME IN BOTH IMAGES FROM TWO DIFFERENT NIGHTS:




it JUST HAPPENS TO BE RIGHT OVER THE #2 reactor:




Now the 2 of the images came from here, but one I already had , so what you have ( in my non-image expert opinion ) is someone coloring over certain spots in the web cam image, meaning it's now being filtered or outright faked ,


edit on 6-4-2011 by Silverlok because: link



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:42 PM
link   
reply to post by PhysicsAlive
 





The document was prepared for the commission’s Reactor Safety Team, which is assisting the Japanese government and the Tokyo Electric Power Company. It says it is based on the “most recent available data” from numerous Japanese and American organizations, including the electric power company, the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum, the United States Department of Energy, General Electric and the Electric Power Research Institute, an independent, nonprofit group.


That's apparently where the info for the NRC doc came from (bottom of first page of article). Any info from the Japanese is a bit suspect at this point, though, I think.



new topics

top topics



 
513
<< 575  576  577    579  580  581 >>

log in

join