It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 548.htm
513
<< 545  546  547    549  550  551 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:02 AM
link   
With all the talk of foam and polymers to seal a crack in a concrete containment, I wanted to add my 2 cents.

If you have a rectilinear tank with a leak in the floor or walls, the quickest way to staunch the flow is to put rubber sheeting over the crack. The flow through the crack pulls the sheet against the wall or floor and the differential pressure holds it there once the flow has stopped, or at least abated. The rubber sheeting comes in thicknesses varying from paper thin to inches thick, depends on the depth of the tank as to how thick the rubber would need to be to withstand the pressure.

It is too late for that now, they have concrete, sawdust, liquid glass(not sure what that means) and diapers floating around in the way.

I read a story about a leak that was sealed in a pipe in a nuclear power plant by inflating a ball (soccer or basketball) inside the pipe to stop the flow while a leak was repaired. I can't find the source of the story now, I may have read it on an ATS thread. I googled it, but came up with nothing.
edit on 5-4-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:17 AM
link   
What about bedding sand?

It works its way into the crack and can seal it.. if there is a pressure buildup and expansion of any kind, the sand will give way.. and will settle back again.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:20 AM
link   
reply to post by makeitso
 

Yes, to answer your question, several things in that .pdf of the isotope measurements catch my eye.

The first is that it lists reactor units 1,2,3,5, & 6. Unit 4 is not listed. This is a case of letting us know something by omission. As these are measurements of "sub drain" it implies that there is either no drainage from unit 4 or else they are are not able to identify drainage from unit 4.

If there is no drainage from unit 4, then it means no water is being poured/pumped/sprayed/injected into unit 4. As Arne Gunnerson pointed out, unit 4 has its spent fuel pool exposed to the air and without lots of water being poured in to cool it, the fuel will quickly overheat and begin to burn. Actually I believe the fire some days ago at unit #4 may have been due to this.

If they cannot identify drainage from unit 4, but they are still pumping water onto it, then it's could be that the water is either being almost totally evaporated/boiled off, or else when it drains its "path" cannot be followed and it might be untraceable.

and to continue, but also with thanks and reference to:
reply to this post by OuttaHere
 


Agreed. Te-129 only has a half-life of 70 minutes. Using the rule of thumb that after ten half-lives, the original amount of an isotope is effectively reduced to minute traces, then after around 700 minutes -- less than 12 hours -- there should be no measurable amounts of Te-129 detectable. Seeing as units 5 & 6 were supposed to have been shut down over three weeks ago (more than 500 hours), how is it possible that they are detecting this short-half-life isotope from unit 6?

There is only one possible answer: either the reactor in unit 6 is still running and its products are leaking out -- meaning the reactor is breached -- or the spent fuel pool in the reactor unit 6 building is in some way releasing this isotope.

In either case, this is clearly a matter of concern as it indicates fission reactions are occurring.

Frankly, I am more concerned that unit 4 is simply not mentioned at all. They didn't even attempt to mislead us by making up some figures for unit 4 and putting them in the list. No, they left out unit 4 entirely and that means they want us to know that there are very serious problems there.

Need to add that having just watched the flyover videos that Procharmo linked to in this post, I don't see evidence in the first one that unit #4 is having water pumped into it from above as it was earlier. (The other is immediately post-tsunami before all the explosions happened.) Perhaps they realize that the fuel pool is basically unable to hold water anyway? Or else it's just too "hot"?

Mike



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:23 AM
link   
reply to post by windwaker
 


Flocculation is quite commonly used in aquaria, etc. (It is also called a protein skimmer). Basically air is pumped through a vertical pipe filled with water. I can't remember the actual details, but the solid particles rise to the top, and you skim off a very smelly and dirty foam. I am not sure of the minimum size of particles that can be lifted like that, as I have left all those books behind when I moved over here, but I am sure you can find the answers if you google it.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:34 AM
link   
TEPCO's new approach:



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 07:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by windwaker
 


Flocculation is quite commonly used in aquaria, etc. (It is also called a protein skimmer). Basically air is pumped through a vertical pipe filled with water. I can't remember the actual details, but the solid particles rise to the top, and you skim off a very smelly and dirty foam. I am not sure of the minimum size of particles that can be lifted like that, as I have left all those books behind when I moved over here, but I am sure you can find the answers if you google it.
I believe bacteria can be removed by flocculation, the trick to it is to add a flocculant, to the suspension. The following are natural flocculants, but there are a host of chemicals used to do the same thing:

* Chitosan * Isinglass * Moringa oleifera seeds (Horseradish Tree) * Gelatin * Strychnos potatorum seeds (Nirmali nut tree) * Guar gum * Alginates (brown seaweed extracts)


Wiki

The flocculant creates a colloid (think jello) in the liquid that traps the suspended particles. Bubbling air through the suspension allows the colloid to come to the surface, where it drys and can be skimmed off as foam or cake.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:10 AM
link   
reply to post by butcherguy
 


Akkurat!!!, about the protein skimmer.


The more I read the more it confirms my initial suspicions, that no matter how much they try to stop leaks, they won't succeed. In my mind I have a image of the whole of the bedrock being totally fractured, and all the water they pump into the buildings, ends up in the sea in any case. Even if they stop pumping now, in a couple of days everything will be empty again... The onliest solution I can see (and not practical in any case) is to dig up the whole of the plant, and send it to the sun. I fear this nuclear incident is too large to be contained, EVER!!!!!, and I fear that no matter what they do, they won't be able to contain it. I think we must accept that there are hundreds of tonnes of highly-radioactive material that will just end up all over the world. We must just view this incident as a huge dirty nuclear bomb, and we all will suffer from it (and our descendents). I am not a pessimist, but in this situation I can't see any positive outcomes, not after seeing that explosion at Plant #3, and following what happened after that.




posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:12 AM
link   
reply to post by meathed
 


I think you might have misunderstood what I said. Either that, or I was too verbose--admittedly, I can be--with my reply to the other poster and instead should have opted for terseness in my response.

In short--I do not believe what the gov't is saying, but I do not believe they are the ones lying in this situation. I think TEPCO is lying--or at the very least, dodging questions left and right to avoid confronting more grim issues. I know it's a fine distinction, but such distinctions need to be made in order to avoid blaming a mere scapegoat later on.

I mean, I'm really not very happy about the fact that I'm showering and possibly drinking (the family friend I mentioned has a special kind of filter attached to the tap, but I don't if the released substances can be filtered out) tap water. Granted, I am fairly far south--Yokohama is basically in the southernmost part of what is considered the greater Tokyo area.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:15 AM
link   
Update on liquid glass injection.



The operator of the crisis-hit Fukushima nuclear plant has injected a hardening agent beneath a leaking concrete pit in a bid to stem the flow of highly radioactive water into the sea. The firm says the leakage seems to be decreasing, following the infusion of the hardening agent. The utility showed reporters a photo of the leak on Tuesday evening, saying it indicates such a decrease. TEPCO said it will infuse another 1,500 liters of liquid glass. Tokyo Electric Power Company started infusing liquid glass into gravel below the pit near the Number 2 reactor at 3 PM on Tuesday.

NHK

I still don't think that looks like a crack in the wall and they probably just put less water in somewhere else to stop it flowing out so fast.
edit on 5/4/11 by MissTiger because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:17 AM
link   
reply to post by Hellhound604
 


Hmm, interesting point...
All this time, and all those prophecies about 'Nuclear war'/End-Time War/WW3/etc...
Not quite the Nuclear War we all had in mind, but...



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:30 AM
link   

Japan's ocean radiation hits 7.5 million times legal limit


Yikes! That seems like a horrifying figure. I hope for once they have got their figures wrong on this one
.

LA Times


On Monday, officials detected more than 4,000 bequerels of iodine-131 per kilogram in a type of fish called a sand lance caught less than three miles offshore of the town of Kita-Ibaraki. The young fish also contained 447 bequerels of cesium-137, which is considered more problematic than iodine-131 because it has a much longer half-life.



As adults, sand lances are harvested commercially in some areas (primarily in Europe), leading to direct human competition with diving birds such as puffins, auks, and cormorants.

Wikipedia

These fish are at the lower end of the food chain. The iodine may not be an issue but the cesium, with its 30 year half-life, surely is? I come from a fishing town and the birds poop absolutely everywhere...


Droppings from seabirds could be introducing radioactive isotopes into the food chain. That is the conclusion of researchers who found high levels of radioactivity in droppings and plants on an island close to the Arctic.

New Scientist


Larval forms of this fish are perhaps the most abundant of all fish larvae in areas such as the northwest Atlantic, serving as a major food item for cod, salmon, and other commercially important species.

edit on 5-4-2011 by Moonbeams771 because: ...to add some more info.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:33 AM
link   
Ok I'm getting cross now with this massive cover up.
This is the biggest nuclear "accident" that has ever happened

just did google/images chernobyl children. I have 2 beautiful daughters. It made me weep.

What is going to happen in Japan to unborn chidren? What is going to happen when genetic defects get passed through DNA from a parent to yet to be conceived children, because of plutonium poisoning?











posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 08:40 AM
link   
One upside..

Maybe the whale populations will recover if they are unable to be eaten.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by ltinycdancerg
reply to post by Hellhound604
 


Hmm, interesting point...
All this time, and all those prophecies about 'Nuclear war'/End-Time War/WW3/etc...
Not quite the Nuclear War we all had in mind, but...


Like both myself and others have said. The global fallout level will "not have an immediate health impact" but.......
as more and more reactors are built and older existing reactor get licence extensions the probability for accidents increases.

As the accidents occur closer chronologically the global background levels increase and the number of locations away from higher localized levels will diminish.

Currently the West, Russia and Asia have the most reactors. Pretty soon the only non DNA contaminated people will be in central Africa away from the coast line and far from the two single African reactors in South Africa and Libya.

Possibly it'll all end were it all started in the Congo....LOL!!!!!
edit on 5-4-2011 by Procharmo because: spelling , grammar



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by Noahswife
Ok I'm getting cross now with this massive cover up.
This is the biggest nuclear "accident" that has ever happened

just did google/images chernobyl children. I have 2 beautiful daughters. It made me weep.


What is going to happen in Japan to unborn chidren? What is going to happen when genetic defects get passed through DNA from a parent to yet to be conceived children, because of plutonium poisoning?



I spent time reading up on cycolpia and feared the worst at the birth of my son a few months ago. I have no idea how people cope with some of the more horrific deformities when they don't have ultra scans and wait to see what pops out.

I'm sure I would have dropped him if he looked like some of the monstrosities we can all see in museums and hospitals.

Fortunately he was fine and had 11 fingers and 10 toes. At least I know he is mine as I had 12 fingers and 10 toes. My sister kids are all completely normal as is she. My brothers twins each have 12 fingers and 10 toes but he is normal as are his other kids.

Both my Mother and Father have never had this deformity in their families going back to the late 1800's.

I suspect Windscale back in 1957 had a lot to do with it. So I hope you all can see my concern.






edit on 5-4-2011 by Procharmo because: Formatting

edit on 5-4-2011 by Procharmo because: Formatting



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:17 AM
link   
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that somebody was hypothesising that Oklo (the natural nuclear reactor in Gabon) lead to the evolution of mankind....... (will see if I can find the article online). Who knows what new direction life will take Post-Fukushima.....



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by MissTiger
Update on liquid glass injection.



The operator of the crisis-hit Fukushima nuclear plant has injected a hardening agent beneath a leaking concrete pit in a bid to stem the flow of highly radioactive water into the sea. The firm says the leakage seems to be decreasing, following the infusion of the hardening agent. The utility showed reporters a photo of the leak on Tuesday evening, saying it indicates such a decrease. TEPCO said it will infuse another 1,500 liters of liquid glass. Tokyo Electric Power Company started infusing liquid glass into gravel below the pit near the Number 2 reactor at 3 PM on Tuesday.

NHK

I still don't think that looks like a crack in the wall and they probably just put less water in somewhere else to stop it flowing out so fast.
edit on 5/4/11 by MissTiger because: (no reason given)


Before saying anything I'll be sure to say that I'm very far from any kind of photo debunker. But...does that even look like the same image? I downloaded and zoomed into the picture just to be sure and it's hard to be sure as they are slightly different angles. The two things that stuck out to me are the lines or bars on the far side of the pit in the second picture that aren't in the first...and also the second picture looks like a larger pit to me...longer than the first. Again, it could be the lighting or angle, but they don't look the same to me...anyone else?

Michelle



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRemedial
 


I tried to argue this point hundreds of pages ago...I fully agree with you here.

Since then, I have followed this thread very closely, I just can't add anything...it got too smart for me a long time ago. There are some great minds here; knowledgeable, as well as philosophical. The "chemistry" of this thread is amazing, and it's maturity is really a "glowing" example for all of ATS

BTW, where is Redneck??? Did he decide that "Jumper's" pay was too good to pass up?


edit on 5-4-2011 by odd1out because: if tepco's not saying...neither am I



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:25 AM
link   
I think someone might have already posted a link of an overhead plan but I'm going to upload it onto the thread so it isn't missed by anyone who was looking for a drawing.


full size

Found on this blog here
atomicpower



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 09:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheRemedial
reply to post by xxcatcatcatxx
 


It is discovered as it is right in front of your face. Just look at the unit #3 video and think for just a moment what could cause an explosion like that. Compare it to #1, if you have had fun with hydrogen as a youth then you notice the similarities in explosions. It exploded almost evenly in all directions if you watch closely. This is not the case with #3 which is directional...The only thing in that building that I can imagine which would be able to direct that blast upwards at such a velocity is the core containment structures.

It popped. We are are all in it up to our eyeballs and it's going to be a game changer for all our lives.


OK, I've asked this before and I don't think I've been answered...

If #3 wasn't a hydrogen explosion but the reactor going "bang", wouldn't we be seeing radiation readings off the scale in Tokyo and also significant readings in the US? I mean, we'd be talking a Chernobyl event and there would be no hiding that. TEPCO and the media would not be able to cover that level of radiation up.

Can somebody clarify this?



new topics

top topics



 
513
<< 545  546  547    549  550  551 >>

log in

join