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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by SDoradus
 


Did you watch the video? He is saying that seawater is restarting the criticality because of the salt and because it has not been modulated by an neutron dampener, such as boron.


Salt water or fresh water, doesn't make much difference for neutron reflection or moderation. It does add the Chlorine and other minerals you don't want into the reactor, when it gets hot it's very corrosive.

But just using salt water in an emergency is better than letting the rods burn.

Using salt water is not causing criticallity. A broken reactor core is causing it. Water is just letting a subcritical mass become critical for a moment.

I don't know how the reactor is broken. Send some heavier boron gravel into it to see if you can smother the neutrons. If that doesn't work find the critical mass (with a robot) and put a block of C4 in the middle of it.




posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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BTW, anyone seen Zorgon?
I miss his posts.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by SDoradus

Originally posted by Wertwog
reply to post by SDoradus
 


Did you watch the video? He is saying that seawater is restarting the criticality because of the salt and because it has not been modulated by an neutron dampener, such as boron.


Salt water or fresh water, doesn't make much difference for neutron reflection or moderation. It does add the Chlorine and other minerals you don't want into the reactor, when it gets hot it's very corrosive.

But just using salt water in an emergency is better than letting the rods burn.

Using salt water is not causing criticallity. A broken reactor core is causing it. Water is just letting a sub-critical mass become critical for a moment.

I don't know how the reactor is broken. Send some heavier boron gravel into it to see if you can smother the neutrons. If that doesn't work find the critical mass (with a robot) and put a block of C4 in the middle of it.


You've got to understand that from an engineering perspective there are only so many options when something is in your way, 1- move it (get the reactor systems working), 2 - go around it (boron), 3- blow it up. (a method of moving it with less finesse)

You can point fingers all day long but that doesn't get the job done.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by DancedWithWolves

Originally posted by Maestro28
The IAEA Update April 3, Is it me or do they dont mention unit 4 at all.

Is all ok there, or has all gone to hell already ?


You are correct - not mentioned.

The April 2 report says


Fresh water (180 T) was pumped into the spent fuel pool on Unit 4 using a concrete pumping truck on 1 April.


source

Are we to assume it's staying full?
edit on 3-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: added source

(still at page 512 so if this this been addressed already...well i'm sure we all know the drill by now :-)

That statement is an out and out lie from TEPCO, there is no pool at four, the pictures are pretty clear that the stuff went critical , pooliumed and is running down the building . In short THERE IS NO POOL LEFT AT FOUR TO HOLD THE WATER . In fact this statement:

Up to 11,000 tons of low-level radioactive water will be stored in the basement of the No. 4 reactor's turbine building as an emergency step, he added.
is pretty much an admission that there is poolium at or near ground level in the #4 building , probably already in water which it is currently boiling off.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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I just saw something really stupid on a live Japanese Tokyo tv talk show this morning. The show host and the guests were all lined up, smiling while eating fresh vegetables and strawberries brought in from Fukushima, trying to show how safe and delicious they are. This is beyond crazy- trying to encourage people (including children) to continue to regularly eat these radioactive foods. Made me sick at my stomach to see such irresponsibility and stupidity.

aargh.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by DancedWithWolves

Originally posted by Maestro28
The IAEA Update April 3, Is it me or do they dont mention unit 4 at all.

Is all ok there, or has all gone to hell already ?


You are correct - not mentioned.

The April 2 report says


Fresh water (180 T) was pumped into the spent fuel pool on Unit 4 using a concrete pumping truck on 1 April.


source

Are we to assume it's staying full?
edit on 3-4-2011 by DancedWithWolves because: added source

(still at page 512 so if this this been addressed already...well i'm sure we all know the drill by now :-)

That statement is an out and out lie from TEPCO, there is no pool at four, the pictures are pretty clear that the stuff went critical , pooliumed and is running down the building . In short THERE IS NO POOL LEFT AT FOUR TO HOLD THE WATER . In fact this statement:

Up to 11,000 tons of low-level radioactive water will be stored in the basement of the No. 4 reactor's turbine building as an emergency step, he added.
is pretty much an admission that there is poolium at or near ground level in the #4 building , probably already in water which it is currently boiling off.


Yes decrypting that is kind of tough. The spent fuel rods aren't kept in or above the turbine building. They are above the reactor torus on the top floor of the containment building next to the reactor dome.

I can see the top's of the spent fuel racks in the concrete pumper video (little square black boxes), clearly not covered in that picture. There is steam coming out so water is in the pool somewhere.

Since the reactor of #4 isn't loaded the turbine building can be sacrificed as storage for contaminated water. Access to turbine buildings 1,2 and 3 is necessary because it's the only way to inject water into those closed reactor vessels.

So the water goes out of 1,2,3 and into four unless you can think of a better place to put it we are kind of out of options. I guess we could evaporate it though a carbon filter or something ...

Too bad we don't have something handy (like a working nuclear reactor) to power the evaporator.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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Newest possible solution: sheets


The government has asked Tokyo Electric Power Co., operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, to study the possibility of containing radioactive substances from four damaged reactors by wrapping their entire containment buildings with a huge amount of sheeting, government sources said Sunday. The proposal calls for building framed structures around the 45-meter-high containment buildings and then wrapping them with the sheeting, the sources said.


Umm...I have some old bed sheets I'd be happy to donate. Though if this is the best idea they have, I'm going to vote for using duct tape instead.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Regenstorm
The Crack.

I'm
...
Please take a look at the pictures in these articles:
www.thehindu.com...
apnews.excite.com...
english.kyodonews.jp...

So much concrete for such a small crack?
Man, TEPCO solutions are straight of "There, I fixed it!".


haha, I shouldn't laugh but when your only tool is a hammer all problems do start to look like nails



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by MedievalGhost
 


Same kinda thing during BP when the President & family on Vacation to the gulf supposedly swam in the ocean & ate seafood from the gulf to show everything is safe....when it is not....

I have a question....If they were to use the barges to place the radioactive run off, could the barges just be left some where in the vicinity & eventually be moved to land to be included in whatever containment dome & etc...or better yet bring in a bunch of barges & some how hoist to land there prior to filling them?
Sorry if a dumb question...

Ektar



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by rbrtj
reply to post by rbrtj
 


So, the question is do we have another big bang or slow death.


I believe that we are being thrown a red herring the criticality appears to be in the pool of either 2 or one as is evidenced by the night web cam Cherenkov radiation, perhaps though radiation leakage ( neutron bombardment ) is leaking from a core and caseing the pool to tip into critical (melting/fissioning) .

if it's the first case we can expect another spike in water and air radiation , if it's the second case at then we could see another boom
edit on 3-4-2011 by Silverlok because: oops one is not three



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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Something else to report...

I can confirm that the supermarkets in Japan are still selling fresh vegetables from Iwaki, Ibaraki, and Tochigi prefectures, along with other prefectures near Fukushima prefecture. These prefectures have been hit by quite high levels of radiation.

Check out the link below and find Nasushiobara city, Iwaki city, and Shirakawa city. Look at the current geiger counter reading for radiation in these areas- Kuji in Ibaraki is .345 microsieverts per hour, Iwaki is .520 microsieverts per hour, and Shirakawa is .700 microsieverts per hour.

link

Many fresh vegetables from these radioactive areas are still being sold in the supermarkets around Japan.
edit on 3-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Aponi
Newest possible solution: sheets


The government has asked Tokyo Electric Power Co., operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, to study the possibility of containing radioactive substances from four damaged reactors by wrapping their entire containment buildings with a huge amount of sheeting, government sources said Sunday. The proposal calls for building framed structures around the 45-meter-high containment buildings and then wrapping them with the sheeting, the sources said.


Umm...I have some old bed sheets I'd be happy to donate. Though if this is the best idea they have, I'm going to vote for using duct tape instead.


Did Japan not get the memo? April Fool's is on the FIRST!

It's times like this that I wish I had the head against the wall emoticon. I'll just settle for this instead.




posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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Some good news for a change.

Japan rescuers find dog adrift at sea on house




www.news.com.au...



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Aponi
 


Sheeting? you have got to be kidding me - lightweight sheeting
such as they put on the outside of houses?

I vote for the duct tape if thats the case. Sounds like they
are getting desperate and grasping at straws.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by SDoradus


Yes decrypting that is kind of tough. The spent fuel rods aren't kept in or above the turbine building. They are above the reactor torus on the top floor of the containment building next to the reactor dome.

I can see the top's of the spent fuel racks in the concrete pumper video (little square black boxes), clearly not covered in that picture. There is steam coming out so water is in the pool somewhere.

Since the reactor of #4 isn't loaded the turbine building can be sacrificed as storage for contaminated water. Access to turbine buildings 1,2 and 3 is necessary because it's the only way to inject water into those closed reactor vessels.

So the water goes out of 1,2,3 and into four unless you can think of a better place to put it we are kind of out of options. I guess we could evaporate it though a carbon filter or something ...

Too bad we don't have something handy (like a working nuclear reactor) to power the evaporator.


No I am not saying that they shouldn't put the water there it's just that it's very likely that NEED to put it there to replenish water being boiled off at or near ground level in the reactor building ( I am betting at four we can get water from the turbine room to the reactor building without doing anything more than pouring water intot he turbine room , hence if it leaks out full of fission by-products from under the #4 building , it's "accidental" and not intentional )

also I don't see much of anything left from the storage pools and definitely no water #4, but perhaps something has changed , er which pictures are you looking at ?



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by crazydaisy
 


I have not seen any reference to the specific type of sheeting. Lead sheeting? House sheeting? Bed sheeting? Nothing will surprise me a this point.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by Aponi
reply to post by crazydaisy
 


I have not seen any reference to the specific type of sheeting. Lead sheeting? House sheeting? Bed sheeting? Nothing will surprise me a this point.


It had better be some darn strong sheeting, as the heat given off by reactor 3 continues to melt the steel skeletal structure.
edit on 3-4-2011 by MedievalGhost because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by crazydaisy
reply to post by Aponi
 


Sheeting? you have got to be kidding me - lightweight sheeting
such as they put on the outside of houses?

I vote for the duct tape if thats the case. Sounds like they
are getting desperate and grasping at straws.


I read a few days ago that if they went ahead with this plan it would be heavy duty plastic sheeting. It was to contain any radioactive particles in the reactor buildings from blowing out over the rest of the site.

The real problem for open reactor buildings is the weather. What if it rains heavily, they get a storm over the site (or even a typhoon), or it gets very gusty? Mist and fog may be able to pick up particles. Also, what if there is another earthquake that releases more particles through causing parts of the damaged building to collapse

The idea was halted because of the difficulty of putting up a frame to hold the sheeting and which was strong enough to survive any weather conditions or further structural collapse when the radioactivity levels were so high at the reactors.

For them to bring out this idea again shows they are desperate.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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Illegal levels of radioactive substances found in Fukushima mushrooms



The health ministry said Sunday it has detected radioactive substances higher than the legal limits in mushrooms sampled Friday in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture, where the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is located.

The Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare said it found the mushrooms to contain 3,100 becquerels of radioactive iodine and 890 becquerels of radioactive cesium against the limits of 2,000 becquerels and 500 becquerels.

The announcement led the prefectural government to ask farmers to voluntarily refrain from shipping mushrooms in Iwaki.


link

This sounds eerily like what happened around Chernobyl.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Some new photos, at least they claim they are.


Latest Satellite Imagery From Fukushima Tells Sobering Tale


Photos



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