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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Qumulys
 

Okay, drink coffee, try again.



Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by LilFox


I know its stupid, I know there's no point in asking, I know I'm most likely bathing in its effects. But can you please tell me your not living in the outer-south-east of Melbourne. I'll feel so much better if your from Werribee... Horrible I know, but I have 2 precious little girls, and I'm frightened, even though I'm told these levels are harmless, doubt creeps in. :-(
edit on 1-4-2011 by Qumulys because: (no reason given)


I posted to Reganstorm a section meant as a reply for you.

So just going to quote myself here…

'Yes, the radioactivity is really bad for Japanese. Very bad. It may eventuate, maybe sooner than later it is not good for parts of the American continent also, and in that case eventually for the Northern hemisphere.

I just do not think there is any point in getting yourself and others worked up when they are living places like Melbourne, or anywhere in Australia, or the Solomons, or NZ, Chile etc. Not at this point. Consider instead the plight of the Japanese. And if you really are concerned about direct impact on you in the Southern hemisphere from the Japanese catastrophe, consider the economic blow coming your way. That is what you should be preparing for first and foremost.'

In short, the radiation is just not going to get to you in dangerous amounts where you are in this short a time, if it ever does (and I mean in dangerous amounts). Where are you going to go anyway? You are already in the Southern hemisphere there being only two of those on this planet.

Take time out from your computer and go for some long walks.




posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by brocktoon

Cherekov radiation is something fairly new to me, although I believe I have grasped the physics behind it. I was wondering if this phenomenon could occur with sufficiently saturated high-temperature updrafts as I believe are happening?

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I don't believe so. It only occurs if the index of refraction of the medium the gamma radiation is going through is less then that of air - so it needs to be solid water, not water vapor.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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www.dailymotion.com...

Not sure if it's been posted but Greenpeace in Japan getting very high readings of radiation. Nice to have outside sources confirming what we already know.

Edit: They drive towards the reactor starting in the 1900CPM and go up until they reach 9999 CPM in areas that are not evacuated.
edit on 1-4-2011 by YouAreDreaming because: Exapnding details



edit on 1-4-2011 by YouAreDreaming because: on youtube now



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by apacheman
It shows some of what is now enclosed underground and is a good reference photo:


Shows the external spent fuel building...



Have not seen that in any recent after damage photos... anyone? Looks like it is higher up on grades... grades like this where they are testing that gunk coating (I assume at a different location as they say the tests will take two weeks and he is not wearing radiation suit



Look how high they built the common fuel pool and the guilding just to the west of reactors 1 and 2. In this picture it looks like they dugout the area for plants 1-4 too get them closer to the ocean or sea level.





I wonder what the reason for the change was?



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman
Darn, doesn't anyone know where the restrooms are?

Still can't find squat
on the sewage system for that site.


I read somewhere possibly on this site. They use portacabins. They are all full.

The workers are having to squat over contaminated land till the roads are cleared and the toilets can be emptied.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Black Sheep
 


thats most likely how the place was designed. to bring everything down to one grade of solid ground or bedrock.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by PhysicsAlive

Light can be refracted by rising hot air; that was the thing that was making me wonder. During the winter, I can look above my kerosene heater and see the shimmer of the heat rising, due to slight shifts in the refractive index.

But I will bow to you on this point.


TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Tallone
I just do not think there is any point in getting yourself and others worked up when they are living places like Melbourne, or anywhere in Australia, or the Solomons, or NZ, Chile etc. Not at this point. Consider instead the plight of the Japanese. And if you really are concerned about direct impact on you in the Southern hemisphere from the Japanese catastrophe, consider the economic blow coming your way. That is what you should be preparing for first and foremost.'


Actually, the Australians are correct to be concerned. Because of this:

australia cross-equatorial bifurcation

This little-known atmospheric phenomena links Oz to the Northern Hemisphere by means of winds. It formed the plot for the movie:


So keep us posted on your levels, please. Thank you.


We are one world, for better or worse...
edit on 1-4-2011 by Chakotay because: CLASSIFIED



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by -W1LL
 


I think I will file this under 20/20 hindsight. I thought it was odd to leave the important stuff 'down by the water' and all the non-critical stuff on high ground! It may have been a foundation issue. If it was dig a deeper hole (with more basement) create the foundation and leave the rest of the plant on higher ground.

BlackSheep



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Redneck, to be clear, I just said "refraction" just to simplify. Technically, as I understand it, Cherekov is caused by particles moving in a medium where the speed of light is reduced relative to another medium. Refraction is the bending of light caused by light itself slowing down and bending.

As for your postulation regarding updrafts, I would suggest that there have been very few chances to try this sort of scenario out. I can tell you that I have spoken to Chernobyl survivors myself, and according to them, part of the popular mythology is incorrect. Many of the people in Pripyat were very sophisticated technicians and knew how dangerous thins were the first night. They knew it because they describe seeing a column of multicoloured light rising from the site in the distance. It is possible that they were seeing exactly what you are suggesting.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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This applies ONLY to JAPAN, not the USA!!! I don't want to spread unnecessary fear.

I prefer the words of Alexey Yablokov, member of the Russian academy of sciences, and adviser to President Gorbachev at the time of Chernobyl: "When you hear 'no immediate danger' [from nuclear radiation] then you should run away as far and as fast as you can."



Using other data, the Russian Academy of Medical Sciences declared in 2006 that 212,000 people had died as a direct consequence of Chernobyl. At the end of 2006, Yablokov and two colleagues, factoring in the worldwide drop in births and increase in cancers seen after the accident, estimated in a study published in the annals of the New York Academy of Sciences that 985,000 people had so far died and the environment had been devastated. Their findings were met with almost complete silence by the World Health Organisation and the industry.

www.guardian.co.uk...


Speaking at a press conference in Washington, DC, Dr. Yablokov said: “We are seeing something that has never happened – a multiple reactor catastrophe including one using plutonium fuel as well as spent fuel pool accidents, all happening within 200 kilometers of a metropolis of 30 million people. Because the area is far more densely populated than around Chernobyl, the human toll could eventually be far worse in Japan."

www.commondreams.org...



edit on 1-4-2011 by Regenstorm because: added extra quote



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Black Sheep

That requires money, which we all know is more important than human life. They could have used the much safer PWR design if not for the same reason.


TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


yes, they have been known to happen in highly humid air when criticality events pulse



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Black Sheep
 


just by looking at the aerial photo I can almost guarantee you the higher elevations of the site were probably brought down to bedrock or the reactor level,
those slopes are man made 2:1 usually compacted every 2' minimum at least thats code in the US....

so all that dirt, it looks to be at least 300' maybe 400' tall in elevation
was removed and replaced by heavy equipment. the soil is the most important part of any building,

I think a big problem they are having is with movement in the soil. an earthquake this large probably moved that whole site all at once bringing everything out of alignment,
bedrock doesn't tend to give way so all the force went through the bedrock and into those reactor Bldgs..
the bldgs on the top of the pads would have moved separately.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:03 PM
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Tokyo time: 9:03 AM.
Geiger reading from Tokyo: 0.11 uSv/h.

Does anyone have any suggestions for using my Geiger counter to measure radiation in water, earth, or objects like food? As you can see I am not an expert. It is a little handheld digital thing, small like an iPod or something, and I've been measuring the air in Tokyo with it. If anyone more knowledgeable than me has any tips or suggestions about the geiger please U2U me. I won't be able to keep up with every post in this thread. Thanks again.
edit on 4/1/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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I just saw this in the La Times dated April 1st.




The level of radioactive iodine in seawater off the coast at the plant has also risen, according to Japan's nuclear safety agency. The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said Thursday that the amount of the isotope in water about 350 yards off the coast had increased to 4,385 times the permissible level, up about a third from the previous day's level. The agency said the seawater level of cesium-137, a much more dangerous isotope because its half-life is more than 30 years, was about 527 times the permissible level. Environmental experts fear that the cesium could get into plankton and then into fish, where it could make its way along the food chain to humans.


I do not remember seeing the cesium-137 reading.

BlackSheep

La Times
edit on 1-4-2011 by Black Sheep because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-4-2011 by Black Sheep because: (no reason given)
The agency said the seawater level of cesium-137, a much more dangerous isotope because its half-life is more than 30 years, was about 527 times the permissible level.
edit on 1-4-2011 by Black Sheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:23 PM
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Brave Fukushima workers expect to die

The workers at Japan’s devastated nuclear power plant, known as the "Fukushima 50," expect that some of them will die within weeks or months, the mother of one of the workers reportedly said.

ofwnow.com...

I hope that TEPCO takes good care of their families.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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sorry if I am 'posting over' someone but I am am not cauhgt up (p464) and have a bit that might be important for people to chew on :

the reason I was going back to re-examine the blast at #3 is because I am trying to look forward and find out how much material is still concentrated enough to be fissioning uncontrollably and where it is .

One of the big reasons is that WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN A corium flashout explosion by now ( if the original ones were all ready not ), so the question becomes WHY NOT?

I think the TEpco guys asked the same question last week and that's why we got the 'neutron beam ' disclosure, they weren't , knowing what they know, exactly sure either

At a glance it appears that three has powdered and discharged most of it's waste and core (some of which in the ocean inlet) , so not enough material left there to create a big boomer, but even if there was the open containment is letting enough neutron energy escape in to the environment as to not create corium /core heat oscillation driven 'bottom boring',(also there could be cracks allowing the stuff to drip out .

#2 should still have been a possibility , but after all this time there must also be a place for neutron energy and corium to escape so it is likely that we have a core breach that allows both and that has been flowing into the secondary and then out through breaks between the torus and teh outer containment . the pools at two should certainly be poolium or powder by now , but in either case I suspect #2 of being a huge neutron source ( which is why they keep putting water in the reactors to help sheild all the stuff on the floor that is putting out neutron energy

#1 looks to be a situation similar to a combo of two and three , so should be putting out more neutron energy that 3 but less than 2

4 is a poolium powered neutron light house and I think the reason the glow went away ( if it did ) is because the main mass of the poolium has moved down closer to ground level ( oh I am almost certain the blue night glow is the beautiful fukushima poolium falls #4 submitted for your consideration by the new artist in the field of nuclear performance art : Tepco)

so that leaves us with a couple of things :
the odds of a ground steam explosion at #4 are still pretty good at 2 about 50/50 at 1 low and 3 not very likely

which brings me to the WATER BARGE FROM the us and it relationship to hard radiation

first in a paper by J.W.T. Spinks ( former University of Saskatchewan ) on the nature of artifically created radioactive objects:

"(when the fission) pile operates enormous numbers of neutrons
are produced and in fact, it has recently been
disclosed that the neutron flux...
(is) 4.3 x 10^13 neutrons per sq. cm.
per sec., This has made possible the production
of radioactive isotopes of practically all the
elements. One which has been in great demand
is radiophosphorus."


the neutron flux... (is) 4.3 x 10^13 neutrons per sq. cm. per sec

So with leaking fissionable sources producing INSANE a,mounts of neutrons anything line of sight from the plant should be getting ( oscillating) "turns everything radioactive" waves, which should show up in secondary and tertiary reactions ( cascade) in the form of Bremsstrahlung radiation and would acount for the 2,000,000 b/m^3 ( in addition to the other radiations for direct dispersal of particles) reported by green peace

also

WHY THE HELL IS AN AMERICAN BARGE BRINGING WATER ?????

do the japanese not have barges or fleets of fire trucks or tanker trucks or,or,or.....

perhaps though it's one wanted to move some of the "waste" rods off the plant ( from 5 and 6 ?) or try to fish that mass of neutron producing stuff out of the water at the ocean inlet for the plant . a WATER barge would be a good way to do it under the radar . it's not like the US has a bunch of war craft floating around not to far away that could move that stuff in some safety and secrecy ...oh...

it would be interesting to get some radiation reading off that boat and perhaps some thermal images when it leaves ( cough hey green peace cough), of course perhaps they just are smuggling in some type of nuetron inhibitor , because I cannot see ANY other course of action ...

(btw if they used LIQUID NITROGEN near those hot babies whoo-eee get ready for a pop)
edit on 1-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-4-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


hence why I suggested earlier (with regards to your liquid nitrogen comment) that they are using the nitrogen for it's properties as a noble gas, not necessarily for cooling (although you could work that in there too with the right equipment). This suggests to me that they are fighting a chemical reaction causing them problems.

also you get a star for figuring out that pretty much anything that gets hit by those neutrons will be radioactive, and will be plenty of things not mentioned nor necessarily tested for. This is important, the liquid nitrogen is suggesting that perhaps the process involves oxidization perhaps induced by the seawater on the rods or the surrounding structure.
edit on 1-4-2011 by TheLastStand because: (no reason given)




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