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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 479.htm
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posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by buffet of lies

I think it might be significant. I think it is the same 'thud' we heard in the explosion video. The RPV cracked.

The fact that it was accompanied by building cracks and asphalt cracks seems to indicate that the bedrock underneath the plants was disturbed to a large extent. That would have changed the dynamics of the forces surrounding the RPV and could have cause it to crack open like an eggshell.

I mentioned this type of event associated with pressure in my last post, and the seismic shifts could be partly responsible in that case as well. The reason I attribute it primarily to pressure and heat is that it was well after the seismic disturbance. That does not mean the disturbance was not also a cause, however. #4 and #3 are sitting side by side.

TheRedneck




posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Cross-section sketch of a typical BWR Mark I containment, as used in Units 1 to 5. The reactor core (1) consists of fuel rods and moderator rods (39) which are moved in and out by the device (31). Around the pressure vessel (8), there is an outer containment (19) which is closed by an concrete plug (2). When fuel rods are moved in or out, the crane (26) will move this plug to the pool for facilities (3). Steam from the dry well (11) can move to the wet well (24) through jet nozzles (14) to condensate there (18). In the spent fuel pool (5), the used fuel rods (27) are stored. .



edit on 03/28/2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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This is in regards to the people still within what SHOULD be an evacuation zone. I wish I could contribute to the scientific / engineering discussion, but sadly, I can't. I am enormously grateful to those of you who can, nevertheless! Anyway, years ago, I SHOULD have demanded that the women and children inside an old shelter for abused women evacuate, because there was a fire in one of the bedrooms on the second floor. Lacking leadership skills, I allowed them to do what they wanted, which was to move to the room on the first floor, closest the exits with their children. It was only when a fireman insisted I get them out, that I gained the nerve to order these women and children to leave. Someone in authority MUST DEMAND that the people be removed from the danger zone in Japan.
edit on 1-4-2011 by novacs4me because: Edit to add I was "in authority" as the volunteer on weekend duty, in case someone who has as much authority as that is reading this and is bold enough to DO SOMETHING!!!



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by zorgon

By my calculations that would be about a 90-second delay instead of the assumed 30. It also means that there was an extra minute between corium discharge and steam release. that sounds like a long time to me, but then again I haven't spent much time measuring corium-induced steam explosions in detail...

Still possible, just allow an extra minute between RPV breaches and steam release.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Darn, doesn't anyone know where the restrooms are?

Still can't find squat
on the sewage system for that site.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Do shockwaves travel at the same speed as sound waves? Could some of the timing anomalies be accounted for by the video catching the shock wave?



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Uh oh.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Styrge

The mysterious light somebody spotted from TEPCO webcam footage is an awesome find! There is an another mechanism to produce visible light from radiation besides cherenkow radiation. When ions created by a heavy radiation source (all ionizing radiation ionizes the air) meet the electron rich surroundings and neutralize, they give off UV-rays. (about 10 eV in energy) These in turn cause luminescence in nearby atoms and molecules. (By displacin valence electrons witch subsequently drop back to their original orbits, giving of 1-3 eV visible light.) This is how the northern lights work. Red is the wavelenght for oxygen and blue comes from nitrogen - familiar also from electric arcs!

The other mysterious light seen way above the plant could be explained this way also (that the Fox news clip was about).


Thanks for pointing this out. Cherenkov radiation needs to travel through at least two mediums to be visible. All those glowing rods you see in pools would stop glowing the second you pulled them out of the water. It is a refraction trick, to put it simply, like a pencil that looks bent when partly submerged in water (only on a sub-atomic level). Take away the water, no refraction, no bent pencil, no blue glow.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by TheLastStand
 




Originally posted by Regenstorm
reply to post by Tallone


So how did all the freon from the industries in the northern hemisphere get to the upper atmosphere of the southern hemisphere to form the hole in the ozone-layer?

Or is there another cause for that?



I'd always assumed those holes were the result of atmospheric nuclear testing anyway.




Meant to mention that. Yes, there is another good reason the analogy doesn't stand. Just couldn't resist the pun

edit on 1-4-2011 by Tallone because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by brocktoon
 


It might very well be that the light was a reflection from the chech-whatever-radiation inside. Something between the debris on top of the roof could very well have been some sort of mirror. Maybe the wind changed its position or did the surface corrode or there was no more water in the pool.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by JustMike
reply to post by Destinyone
 

Des, that's a very good and highly informative video and I'd recommend that other members watch it.


Professor Busby says that the explosions at Daiichi were from hydrogen. Now, this is coming from a man who is an expert in the field of things nuclear, but who is also anti-nuclear power stations and made that stance quite clear. I think we can safely accept that he would not be saying they were hydrogen explosions just to back up what TEPCO has said.

So, based on what Prof. Busby has said, we can give the hydrogen explosion perspective a lot more credence. All the same, I think it would be good to get some calulations done to confirm that the energy release in the #3 building's explosion was in line with what would be possible from a hydrogen explosion alone.

Best regards,

Mike


IF hydrogen is the cause , the limiting factor here is oxygen availability ( which is why I think the three booms are not fake) , so given the 'unusual nature' of the circumstance I think that we should be looking at multiple agents , 'assisting' the hydrogen. Foremost among them peroxide formations from the steam being sublimated at the torus with radioactive materials present. Although the number of compounds available are staggering (when we include carbon from the zirc) , SAm has had some fun with a few of them



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by zorgon

I just went through it again... the initial flash was at 0:02. At 0:04, 0:06, and 0:08 there were thuds... not explosive booms, but thuds. Three in a row, at roughly 2 second intervals. I believe we were hearing ruptures in the containment, possibly from pressure and overheating.

The actual explosion occurred a little bit after that, a steam explosion as corium hit water. We didn't hear that sound because the video cut off 11 seconds after the initial flash.

So based on that, here's what might have happened. I am giving times, where I can, in seconds after the initial event:
  • 0:00 - There is a pressure release in the reactor pressure vessel.
  • 0:02 - The new stresses cause a second break in the RPV.
  • 0:04 - Another break occurs in the RPV. Corium is now sliding out of its container.
  • Corium begins creating a massive amount of steam, which builds pressure inside the building.
  • 0:28 - The video begins showing.
  • 0:30 - Steam pressure builds up within the building, causing something to ignite, causing the flash. This was probably a small pocket of hydrogen which was mixed with a lot of air. The color indicates that it was in an area which contained other combustible materials (hydrogen flames are almost invisibe). I am assuming at this point that the bulk of the hydrogen was too concentrated to be flammable.
  • 0:32 - The flash ruptures the building and starts releasing the steam explosively, along with anything else in its way. The bulk of the hydrogen begins mixing with outside air. We hear the sound of the first RPV breach.
  • 0:34 - We hear the sound of the second RPV breach.
  • 0:36 - We hear the sound of the third RPV breach.
  • The bulk of the now-liberated hydrogen ignites from the initial flash, causing a horizontal wavefront that triggers the earthquake and tsunami sensors.

The above assumes a distance which would create a 30-second delay between light and sound reception. Would someone please let me know if this is about right? I forget the actual distance.

TheRedneck


Requoted so everyone is on the same page and knows what we're referring to.

That is a highly plausible sequence of events and + / - 2secs to an accurate description to fit the sounds on the video. If the soundtrack is not dubbed this is definitely the way to look at it. Steam explosions are just about instantaneous when they are open air. Of course when confined there are variables such as structural integrity of whatever the steam is being confined in and time to structural failure to release the steam.

Good things happen with a collective focused group of people

edit on 1-4-2011 by SFA437 because: The usual



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Fukushima Marine Environment Monitoring (1 April 2011, 14.30 UTC)
www.slideshare.net...

Summary of Reactor Status (1 April 2011, 13.00 UTC)
6 hours ago
www.slideshare.net...

Radiological Monitoring and Consequences of the Fukushima Nuclear Accident (1 April 2011, 14.30 UTC)
www.slideshare.net...



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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Apologies if this has already been posted. Latest update I believe on reactor #4 and the state of the spent fuel
pool. Very concerning.





www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by Regenstorm
 


Anything is possible, just remember that the Cherekov radiation is more of a glow, rather than a light source. You would not expect it to be able to be focused into a big flash like that. It's like a glow in the dark toy, you can see it glow, but you would not count on it to replace your headlamps or anything. My best guess is that it is some sort of reflection, as you say, but likely of a terrestrial source from somewhere on the plant site such as temporary arc lighting being moved or some such thing.

It should be pointed out that people have said there are sometimes flashes associated with criticality accidents, my guess it that what we are seeing is just too high in the building to be evidence of a criticality but no one knows for certain right now.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Destinyone
Continued quest for video of explosion to N4 has led me to this one....opinions?

www.youtube.com...

[yvid]



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by buffet of lies
 


Hi there, there may be another reason why that snippet/first hand account you found may be important.

If we have a first hand account by a worker saying things started to go crack and boom (at R#4) after the EQ but BEFORE the tsunami, then what is to be made of that statement that I quoted on p428 Link to post, where the Japanese government ordered a review of nuclear power station readiness, but which, as far as I can tell, makes NO mention of EQ damage/disaster recovery, but only apparently cites tsunami impact/reactionary measures?

IMO, such vague or misguided focusing on the wrong parameters as the cause of the disaster make their reassurances that safety issues from this event will be rectified/countered by reacting to just Tsunami effects inconclusive at best, if the EQ was the catalyst. As Zorgon and others have made clear, this 9.0 EQ may not be their last 'Big One' and they have many other reactors elsewhere that could suffer similar fates unless the EQ issues are addressed (as well as the tsunami)?

Perhaps there's something I've not seen, but if not I believe that is again significant, well done.




Another little addition to the story:

METI orders nuclear plants to adopt new safety measures

Source: Platts.com


Kaieda said that the ministry had ordered the utilities to adopt the new measures in one month.

The minister said that the measures include requiring utilities to have power cars, which could sustain power supply at nuclear power plants in times of emergency, and securing fire trucks to cool distressed facilities.

Under the new emergency safety measures, METI requested local power utilities to check their equipment and facilities for possible response to tsunami; compile their contingency plans and run training for their emergency response as well as ensuring ways to cool used fuel pools if cooling systems are knocked out, the ministry said in a statement.

METI also requested local power utilities to report their contingency plans and the status of their preparations for their emergency response to Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency as soon as possible, the ministry said.

NISA then intends to scrutinize the contingency plans by the end of April, METI added.

Kaieda added that power utilities can adopt these measures at operational nuclear plants without suspending operations. He, however, said that he would not allow the restarting of nuclear power plants which are currently undergoing maintenance until the measures have been implemented.
edit on 1-4-2011 by curioustype because: Sorry, I pated my comments as well as the Ext text that I wished to quote - corrected, follow the link to my original post if you wish to read my comments there...



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by brocktoon
reply to post by Regenstorm
 

You would not expect it to be able to be focused into a big flash like that.


A criticality accident would be worse than an intentional reactor pulse:


and a Japanese Tiger Team at an earlier accident:

edit on 1-4-2011 by Chakotay because: CLASSIFIED



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Qumulys
reply to post by LilFox
 


I know its stupid, I know there's no point in asking, I know I'm most likely bathing in its effects. But can you please tell me your not living in the outer-south-east of Melbourne. I'll feel so much better if your from Werribee... Horrible I know, but I have 2 precious little girls, and I'm frightened, even though I'm told these levels are harmless, doubt creeps in. :-(

edit on 1-4-2011 by Qumulys because: (no reason given)

I posted to Reganstorm a section meant as a reply for you.

So just going to quote myself here…

Yes, the radioactivity is really bad for Japanese. Very bad. It may eventuate, maybe sooner than later it is not good for parts of the American continent also, and in that case eventually for the Northern hemisphere.

I just do not think there is any point in getting yourself and others worked up when they are living places like Melbourne, or anywhere in Australia, or the Solomons, or NZ, Chile etc. Not at this point. Consider instead the plight of the Japanese. And if you really are concerned about direct impact on you in the Southern hemisphere from the Japanese catastrophe, consider the economic blow coming your way. That is what you should be preparing for first and foremost.

The radiation is just not going to get to you in dangerous amounts in that short a time, if it ever does and I mean in dangerous amounts. Where are you going to go anyway if it does? There are only two hemispheres on this planet. You need to take time away from your computer.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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DELETED
edit on 1-4-2011 by Tallone because: (no reason given)




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