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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 47.htm
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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 

Ouch.
That sux.




posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


Well it seems I've answered my own question!

Here is one of the many concerns that I found...


The very fact that these types of systems are being considered is concerning. In the case of a catastrophic accident where the core was exposed to seawater the result would be a thermal explosion that would hugely increase the amount of radiation emitted both to the marine environment and atmosphere.


nfznsc.gn.apc.org...

Just in case anyone asks!
Why thank you Wookiep! You're quite welcome, sir!

edit on 13-3-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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fresh tsunami on the way to japan 3 meters high arrives in 12 minutes


0212: Tsunami feared to reach north-eastern coast "in minutes" - Kyodo.
0210: North-eastern coast on the alert for a 3-metre tsunami - Japan's Jiji news agency.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 


Windguru, its primarily a surfing site, but has wind forecasts for 39 different spots in Japan.

windguru japan

The forecasts are for the next 7days, presented in your local time and generally updated every 3 hours or so.

Its my understanding that the info is generated from NOAA and GFS weather models.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Wow, huge part in the second page of that article:


To pump in the water, the Japanese have apparently tried used fire-fighting equipment — hardly the usual procedure. But forcing the seawater inside the containment vessel has been extraordinarily difficult, because the pressure in the vessel has become so great. One American official likened the process to “trying to pour water into an inflated balloon,” and said that on Sunday it was “not clear how much water they are getting in, or whether they are covering the cores.” The problem was compounded because gauges inside the reactor seemed to have been damaged in the earthquake or the tsunami, making it impossible to know just how much water is in the core. And workers attempting the pumping operation are presumed to be exposed to radiation; several workers, according to Japanese reports, have been treated for radiation poisoning. It is not clear how severe their exposure was.


Edit: I swear to G-d that's NYTimes, I have a login (it's free) even though there's a glaring and elementary grammar error in that first sentence. Ugh.
edit on 13-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Kyodo says Japan issued a 3-meter tsunami warning on east coast, including Fukushima. AP says gray smoke is seen on Fukushima reactor.


Also sounds of an explosion at the plant.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by Kennit
 

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were a hoaxer or a moron or anything like that.
I just don't trust everything I hear on "the wired".



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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on top of the coming tsunami we have this now


AP: Gray smoke spotted at stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi reactor



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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isin't 3 meters 15 feet !!!! my god



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Reuters: Japan nuclear safety agency confirms hydrogen explosion at Fukushima Daiichi plant No.3.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
reply to post by Kennit
 

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were a hoaxer or a moron or anything like that.
I just don't trust everything I hear on "the wired".




It's all good, man. And nice reference.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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someone in the know what will a 15 ft wave do to these already
damaged reactors !!!!!???? becuase one is on the way 8 minutes out



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Kennit
Reuters: Japan nuclear safety agency confirms hydrogen explosion at Fukushima Daiichi plant No.3.

Yes, every media right now is talking about it. Pretty much as expected, blow-out at #3 just like #1. I guess we'll have to wait for details to confirm it's just from the release of gas, etc. - and not something different than "expected".

PS: Anderson Cooper just asked "... should I get outta here?"

edit on 2011-3-13 by EnhancedInterrogator because: spelling, grammar, formatting, etc.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by GullibleUnderlord
 


9 feet, not 15 (1 yard/meter, 3 feet/yard)

ETA: TWO explosions at #3 says tepco
edit on 13-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by GullibleUnderlord
 


Well if it gets submerged underwater (seawater), then you could always check the answer to my own question that I posted just now on this page.
edit on 13-3-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by GullibleUnderlord

thanks for the input , i hope they do not return any of that used water
back into the sea

Sorry for the delay...

It will at some point go back into the groundwater or the air. it will probably contain some radiation signature when it does so. But right now that is far preferable to a complete uncontrolled meltdown.

Let me try to explain the cooling system again....

The primary loop never exits the reactor building. That is the water inside the reactor which is pumped through a heat exchanger. This is also the water whose level is being discussed when they say rods are uncovered. And it is the water which is highly radioactive, containing energetic neutrons as well as some of the soluble fission products. It cannot be simply returned to the environment.

This primary loop is cooled by the secondary loop (sometimes referred to as the main steam lines). This water cycles through the heat exchanger, turns to steam, drives the turbines that produce electricity, then routes through the cooling towers which act like a second huge condenser and cool the steam back into water. This water is considered hazardous as well, but to a much lesser degree than the primary loop water. It is normally replenished from an outside water source, such as a river or sea.

Primary water is supposed to be denatured and pure, in order to prevent radioactive impurities from accumulating as much in it, and to prevent corrosion to the interior of the reactor vessel. During a meltdown, some of this water steams and raises the pressure inside the reactor until a balance is obtained between pressure and temperature. As the temperature rises, more pressure builds, and vice-versa.

Surely, they are not running seawater through the reactor itself.... if they were, we would be seeing those huge plumes of smoke (steam). So that means they are flooding either the heat exchangers or the building itself with seawater. The heat exchangers would be most probable, since they are specifically designed to draw heat from the reactor. If they can keep enough water flowing fast enough through those heat exchangers, the water may not all steam... it will depend on how hot the cooling water gets, which is a function of how fast it is being pushed through the heat exchangers and how much heat is being transferred. If they are using a fast pumping through just the exchangers, which is probable, then hot water is indeed being returned to the soil and ocean, but not highly radioactive water.

My concern, and the reason I am keeping up with this so much, is that there have been reports of both I-131 and Cs-135 outside the reactor containment. These are fission products, and had to have formed inside the reactor itself, from fuel in the fuel rods. That means somehow, radiation has escaped. Now, it may have been purposely vented (better than letting the reactor vessel crack wide open, but not much IMO) or it may have exited from a pressure crack in the reactor vessel itself, which would be an even worse thing.

The real danger outside of Japan is that steam containing energetic neutrons could be emitted. Forget the cesium... it is low-level radiation. Forget the iodine... it has a fairly short half-life. Forget the gamma radiation... it disappears almost instantaneously. It is the energetic neutrons that could travel across the Pacific, absorbed into airborne water vapor. As of this time, there is no indication that dangerous amounts of neutron-containing steam have been released. The danger is that it is still possible if the reactors are not kept cool and contained.

To the poster who suggested just letting it melt down... uranium melts at about 3000°C, and a meltdown can create temperatures of over 6000°C. That is far beyond the melting point of the reactor vessel itself, even above the melting point of most rocks. Allowed to run freely, a full reactor could theoretically melt its way through the reactor vessel, venting all of its water supply as radioactive steam, through the concrete containment floor, through the soil and bedrock, until it merged with magma in the mantle. This newly formed tube through the crust would be a perfect candidate for a new, radioactive volcano. To quote Egon Spangler from Ghostbusters, "That would be a bad thing."

Now, my concern is that there may indeed be a pressure crack in the reactor vessel. Steel pressure vessels can crack in such a way as to release under pressure but then close back up and seal themselves until the pressure rises again. Each time pressure is released, some radioactive steam will exit the reactor, whether by relief valve or by pressure crack. The difference is that we (the operators) have control over the relief valves; we (they) have no control over a pressure crack. A pressure crack can (probably will) develop into an open crack as well over time, giving an open vent to the atmosphere and making it impossible to maintain water levels inside.

As long as the reactors are kept cool, the pressure will max out at an acceptable level that will not crack the reactor vessel. That is why all the concern over the cooling, and that is why I am happy with the way Japan is handling this situation so far. They are doing everything possible to maintain the reactor in a safely operating condition until the fuel can safely burn itself out... the only reasonable course of action at this point. That is also why I am not overly worried at this point, just concerned.

I hope that was a little more understandable.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


my bad bad at math, however on the other thread they are saying now 4 m so how high is 4 m



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by GullibleUnderlord
 


Sea level dropped 5 meters off Fukishima, so definite tsunami, can't tell how much that means it will be though



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by GullibleUnderlord
reply to post by 00nunya00
 


my bad bad at math, however on the other thread they are saying now 4 m so how high is 4 m


about 13 feet.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


very good breakdown, but now there has been an explosin and also tsunami on the way what will happen to the status now after this what is the situation with these events taking place what are your thoughts
on how this will affect things?



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