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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


That is 100% the top of the reactor, you can tell by the rusty-looking "rings" at the top in both pictures.




posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Folks, I simply cannot keep up with this thread as fast as it is moving... I will continue trying, but if I miss a post you really want an answer to, just u2u me with the post link... I will try to respond. But I have 6 pages of catchup this morning, and a few scrap pieces of a life. Something's gotta give.

reply to post by zorgon

I was worried about that...

The more I look at these pictures, the more I become convinced of something I had not wanted to say... but now I will. I am convinced that reactor #3 breached when that explosion occurred. I believe the corium interacted with the graphite seals in the bottom of the vessel, causing both disintegration and fire, and began dripping out through the open seals. This would have lasted minutes until the bottom of the pressure vessel opened up and dumped the whole thing onto the concrete. At the same time, workers were venting hydrogen and the bottom of the vessel was also venting gases.

There was water everywhere in that building... probably a lot form the tsunami itself. As soon as the corium hit that water, There would be a steam explosion as the water flashed into steam, which I believe was directed upwards through that hole in the picture. The steam explosion was responsible for the plume we saw, and the reason it was gray instead of white was that graphite was still burning over the source.

The pressure wave created by the explosion would also have sent fire from the burning carbon throughout the internal building structure. With all that hydrogen building up, all it took was one lone spark, one little ember to make contact with the hydrogen, and it goes off as well. What we saw was in effect two explosions.

One went off inside the building a few seconds before the other. This first was a steam explosion which was somewhat contained by the structure. In other words, it increased the pressure inside the building. This was the sound that was picked up by the helicopters. A few seconds later, the hydrogen went off as well, causing the entire building top to disintegrate and release the built-up pressure within the primary containment. This was the explosion we saw, a few seconds later.

We heard the steam explosion deep within the bowels of the primary containment walls... we saw an explosion a few seconds later when the hydrogen blew off the roof and allowed the steam to escape explosively as well. There's the difference between timing of the sound and the visual.

What this means is that radioactive particles were thrown high enough to enter the Jet Stream. Those particles, mainly I-131, have been spreading eastward across the Pacific and were found along the path of the Jet Stream. It also means that the corium is still going strong underneath that rubble; the pictures I started off mentioning still show steam rising. The small amount of steam means that there is precious little water left for the corium to interact with... that is good as it explains why no more steam explosions have occurred, but it is also bad in the sense that there is little to nothing left to even try to cool the corium.

I have also been noticing that the whole building seems to look worse every time a new picture is shown... like it is slumping down and slowly disintegrating. That's because it is. The corium is still reacting, producing copious amounts of heat and radiation from underneath it. That heat is causing an updraft like I explained some pages back. The real concern for Japan right now is that radiation levels are so high that even with a continuous updraft from the heat causing a vacuum trying to suck any particles back into it, levels at the plant are still out of control.

There is another mechanism that would allow ground readings to increase. I remember reading earlier in this thread something about the plant being situated not on soil, but on dry bedrock. That would be consistent with the observations, if the corium is quietly melting its way through that bedrock unimpeded. The heat causing an updraft would be decreasing from the plant as it moves deeper and deeper, slowing the updraft from that one plant and allowing surrounding ground conditions to worsen due to a decrease in the updraft.

Now, what does all this techno-babble mean for us? Not much really. It simply means that the China Syndrome is underway with a greater head start than we originally thought. It also means that there may be a slowing of any radioactive particles entering the Jet Stream, although not a complete stoppage by any means.

For Japan... it means that radiation levels will now start to rise quickly along the ground, as we are seeing. Oceanic radiation levels are far from peaking as well. And of course, that threat of widespread fallout from rain and downdrafts still exists and will continue for some time. Not good news, but little of that is available from inside Japan nowadays.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Never mind...
edit on 31-3-2011 by mrbillshow because: Looking at wrong photo.



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Tokyo (CNN) -- The levels of radiation in ocean waters off Japan's embattled Fukushima Daiichi plant continue to skyrocket, the nation's nuclear safety agency said Thursday, with no clear sense of what's causing the spike or how to stop it.

The amount of the radioactive iodine-131 isotope in the samples, taken Wednesday some 330 meters (361 yards) into the Pacific Ocean, has surged to 4,385 times above the regulatory limit.

This tops the previous day's reading of 3,355 times above the standard -- and an exponential spike over the 104-times increase measured just last Friday.

Officials have downplayed the potential perils posed by this isotope, since it loses half of its radiation every eight days.

Yet amounts of the cesium-137 isotope -- which, by comparison, has a 30-year "half life" -- have also soared, with a Wednesday afternoon sample showing levels 527 times the standard.



Japan: Trace of plutonium not a threat?

Could Japan nuke disaster occur in US?

New York firefighter helps Japan victims

Contamination risks in Japan
RELATED TOPICS
2011 Japan Disaster
Fukushima Daiichi
Nuclear Energy
"That's the one I am worried about," said Michael Friedlander, a U.S.-based nuclear engineer, explaining cesium might linger much longer in the ecosystem. "Plankton absorbs the cesium, the fish eat the plankton, the bigger fish eat smaller fish -- so every step you go up the food chain, the concentration of cesium gets higher."

On Thursday, Hidehiko Nishiyama, a Japanese nuclear safety official, reiterated that seawater radiation doesn't yet pose a health risk to humans eating seafood.

Fishing is not allowed within 20 kilometers (12 miles) of the plant, and waterborne radiation should dilute over time, Nishiyama said.

Still, authorities don't know where the highly radioactive water is coming from or how it reached the sea.

The contamination may be coming from either a leak or ground seepage. The high levels suggest the release of radiation into the atmosphere alone couldn't be the lone source, an official with Tokyo Electric Power Company, which owns the Daiichi plant, said Thursday.

Tokyo Electric had previously announced plans to spray a water and synthetic resin mix around the complex to envelop radioactive particles, so they can't spread any further. Still, persistent rain and wind on Thursday forced authorities to postpone the start of that effort.

The Japanese utility and the government have gotten new


I just find this crazy.
How can they say the foodsource is o.k.!!!!!

I live in the Midwest and since the Gulf problem I don't bring any seafood into my house. At this point we will never have any sort of seafood in our house.
I watched a progaram on WTW last nite which is Public T.V here in the Chicago area, about the effects of global interaction which will effect all of us. It talked about "Failing States" and how this effect our whole world. It touched upon food shortages and how it effects the whole world. Well, this is gonna make things alot harder for all of us. We already know that food prices have reached a high peak. And that this summer they will get worse because of the problems they are having in the U.S. with drought.
I don't want to go on because many of you have posted the same information.
But I'll tell ya, Our situation as a society is really turning for the bad right now. Our Governments better get their acts together, or we could be looking at a situation that we cannot get ourselves out of.

I've been talking to my kids more and more about their future. I try not to scare them, but the realilty of all this is really kinda scary. Even for someone like me who has a evenkeel atititude.

I think we as a society have some very serious decisions to make. They are not going to be easy ones.

**And Yes I had the time to figure out how to embed. When I have more time I'll figure it all out. Please Please don't berate me. I'll get there!!
edit on 31-3-2011 by crappiekat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Flying Sorcerer
So it was a press conference about nothing major really?
Sounds like they could have jsut released a statement... but I guess the pink panther wanted to show his ugly mug on the telly to show he cares and that France will help rebuild /cash in


Yeah it was a show of face..... you would think that at a time like this they could just set that asides and come out and just get down to brass tacks... but no... gotta keep up appearances...

Politics :shk: Poly = many Tics = blood sucking vermin



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


That picture may be showing that the reactor pressure vessel has separated from the torus. I agree, this is worse then expected.

Maybe that is why detailed close hi-res pictures are so hard to find.

If no one sees it, TEPCO is remains in control of the spin/reporting to the world.

Why not wait until the company is nationalized before revealing the true extent of the damage?

BlackSheep



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ressiv
money goes first :-)
The EU has raised the max. radiation levels for food imported from Japan !... problem solved....
bon apetit...:-)


Thanks, I did read see that earlier regarding Sweden. A lot of worse things are "out of order" in this world but for some reason raising safe levels makes me really angry!



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


"There is another mechanism that would allow ground readings to increase. I remember reading earlier in this thread something about the plant being situated not on soil, but on dry bedrock."

Most recent news shows 10k times discovered in "groundwater" next to #1. If the plant is built on bedrock how can groundwater exist or accumulate from rain or spraying?

UPDATE - The lower pressure vessel section of these buildings was below ground level. I'm assuming they dug down 30-50 feet to the bedrock as the foundation for each building and reactor. So there is 30-50 feet of soil around the buildings.
edit on 31-3-2011 by mrbillshow because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


"There is another mechanism that would allow ground readings to increase. I remember reading earlier in this thread something about the plant being situated not on soil, but on dry bedrock."

Most recent news shows 10k times discovered in "groundwater" next to #1. If the plant is built on bedrock how can groundwater exist or accumulate from rain or spraying?



bedrock is very dense water will sit on it for weeks to months without seeping into the ground...I hope that answers your question.

I had a question. does anyone know what signs such as smoke or vapor we will see when the nuclear blob starts burning into the ground? and do we know how fast this can move down through the soil ?

edit on 3/31/2011 by -W1LL because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by brocktoon
Original research alert!

I have a riddle. Why is Sarkozy in Japan? Why was he of all people so quick to get over there? The answer lies in who he brought with him: A cat named Carlos Ghosn.

Who is Carlos Ghosn? Why, none other than the Chairman of Renault, and holder of the same title for Nissan Motors. (Renault controls Nissan through a 44% interest and other agreements).

Why is he there? One of Nissan's largest plants is in Fukushima. It is literally just over the hill from Fukushima Dai-ani, and by extension, in the neighborhood of Dai-ichi.

Sarkoszy is there for one thing: to set up monitoring of these French assets, and to make sure that the exclusion zone is not ever expanded to include them. So when people ask why the evacuation zone has not been expanded to 50km, when the IAEA thinks it should. Have a careful look at what's on the ground within those 50 km, and who's just happens to be visiting Japan....


Good detective work. He also has bought the CEO of Areva Anne Lauvergeon with him.





posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Black Sheep
 


Blacksheep...TY for the clarification...we're good


Des



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by crappiekat
Tokyo (CNN) -- The levels of radiation in ocean waters off Japan's embattled Fukushima Daiichi plant continue to skyrocket, the nation's nuclear safety agency said Thursday, with no clear sense of what's causing the spike or how to stop it.

The amount of the radioactive iodine-131 isotope in the samples, taken Wednesday some 330 meters (361 yards) into the Pacific Ocean, has surged to 4,385 times above the regulatory limit.

This tops the previous day's reading of 3,355 times above the standard -- and an exponential spike over the 104-times increase measured just last Friday.


More important in that info from last night is the fact that Unit 5 and 6 are also releasing high levels into the sea. I will repost that






posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Regarding the radiation in the groundwater. Tepco doesn't want to be found knowingly discharging radiation into the sea although we can see water flowing from the vents and also the issue of seawater cooling mechanisms reacting with the tides as speculated here. If they can make a case that radiation from the spraying leaked onto the ground, settled on the bedrock and then gravity moved it to the sea, it could give them some plausible deniability about doing it purposely.



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Most of the new press releases hit between 1am and 3am Pacific time... so I will repeat the main ones from last night for those just waking up and not able to catch up

Press conference about to start

www3.nhk.or.jp...

Prime Minister and French President regarding Fukushima





BREAKING NEWS

A worker in the plant has come forward and said that TEPCO does not provide radiation monitors to every worker only one per group leader. TEPCO acknowledged this... and said they saw no issue with this despite that it is against all regulations...





Just slipped in to NHK news... the translator was stumbling over words...

www3.nhk.or.jp...

BREAKING NEWS

International team talking about need to use heavy equipment to remove the debris and rubble to get at the reactors, etc... One team member estimated two years to remove the fuel rods to safe confinement




posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by -W1LL

The only signs we can be sure of would be steam rising based on the amount of moisture the corium encounters. Beyond that, we don't know.

As for the speed, we simply don't know. No one has ever turned a nuke plant into a bedrock drill before. We don't even know how deep it will go.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


You know, I made that call a few pages back and figured you'd be agreeing with no2 & no3 in full meltdown sooner or later. I even said so in my post. Now we have evidence that confirms as much. The governments of this world are fibbing us all.



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by TheLastStand

I was saying meltdown back on the 13th.... now I am saying China Syndrome.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by -W1LL

The only signs we can be sure of would be steam rising based on the amount of moisture the corium encounters. Beyond that, we don't know.

As for the speed, we simply don't know. No one has ever turned a nuke plant into a bedrock drill before. We don't even know how deep it will go.

TheRedneck


Wouldn't this leave a huge thermal signature? Infrared camera's should be able to pinpoint (if close) and monitor (over time) the entire situation. All of this equipment is commercially available, military has the good stuff.

I am quite sure we were using remote sensing equipment such as satellites and UAVs from day one. Hence the almost immediate order for Americans to evacuate a much larger area. We were not guessing, we had realtime proof of how bad it was.

BlackSheep



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Need to repeat this one...

The yellow top.... yeah the cement containment is GONE and it looks like it is lying way off center

I missed that point myself Good catch




Originally posted by Procharmo

Originally posted by SFA437
SwissNuclear HQ offices bombed in Olten, Switzerland

Olten Bombing

Seems somebody is taking the desire to shut down reactors quite seriously. For this to happen in Switzerland... kind of jaw agape here.

Going back to earlier the photo of the containment head breach- it is most likely on #1. Original vid is kind of misplaced on my comp at the moment.


edit on 31-3-2011 by SFA437 because: Additional info



The yellow part is on the outside and was surrounded by loads of concrete.



At 2:27 they confirm the yellow dome is reactor No4....

www.youtube.com...

edit on 31-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



The fast erosion phase of the concrete basemat lasts for about an hour and progresses into about one meter depth, then slows to several centimeters per hour, and stops completely when the melt cools below the decomposition temperature of concrete (about 1100°C). Complete melt-through can occur in several days even through several meters of concrete; the corium then penetrates several meters into the underlying soil, spreads around, cools and solidifies.[3]


Corium-Concrete Interactions

I know this doesn't give a definitive answer to the rate of burn through into soil, but it may provide some help for making a swag at where the corium mass is at present. I'd start the clock at the inital hydrogen explosion possibly.

The data in this wiki and specifically the text above is primarily information gathered from Chernobyl.

Soul




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