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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Okay caught it this round...










Even areas outside the 30 Km are leaving,,, towns becoming Ghost towns as people leave the area




edit on 29-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by JustMike
 





Does anyone have a handy reference for the heat generated by a melting core?



The temperature of corium can be as high as 2400°C in the first hours after the meltdown and can reach over 2800°C


Wiki

seems kinda low to me tho



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by TheLastStand
 

Thank you. I suspected it was above the melting point for any material that could possibly be used in any kind of containment effort.

You mentioned in a post apropos the idea of injecting liquid nitrogen, that it might cool the corium but would cause it to shatter into many pieces and by implication spread over a large area. I know this might sound an absurd question, but would that possibly be the lesser of two evils? To have the corium reduced to small pieces (and widespread), or to have a large amount of corium burn down to the water table with the results that would bring?

Because text on a page can be taken different ways I assure you that I am not being facetious... I would really like your opinion.

Mike



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


Sorry thank you, I have added as many sources as possible. I started thinking on this a little more in depth and came up with...

Powdered

Step 1: Inject Boron + Tungsten(other) + Crystalline Ceramics(other)
Step 2: Forced air to create a blast furnace inside
Step 3: Hope the temperature inside exceeds the melting point of the injected materials

I know there are a lot of problems with these ideas but perhaps someone can build on them. If not at least I can't say I sat around and said we're all doomed



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by YarlanZey
 


Yes i know, im in the dales and its now raining...had to let the dogs out for a piddle and i felt very guilty for doing so.

Im guessing that it hit the U.S a while back then if were just getting it now??




posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by JustMike
 


not really that particulate would likely be fine and travel far. A far cry from taking whole rods and isolating them. This would make a worst case scenario, once everything is nebulized into the atmosphere it is game over, doesn't matter if the pieces are hot or cold when it does it. What would work would be a magnetic containment with nitrogen injection cooling. That would keep the material away from the walls, and the nitrogen could be used to gradually cool it. Or one could build an apparatus to reprocess damaged fuel rods isolated away from the plant into something safer to handle. Perhaps maybe they should look into remineralizing the rods into something that can be more safely handled is the way to go?



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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My absurd idea:

You need something like a giant "rain" showerhead to somehow slip under the corium blob like a spatula.

From there you inject a slurry of boron and ceramic aggregates up through the mass. The nozzles would force the slurry into the blob separating it into smaller less reactive portions.

Not too sure if we have the material science to manufacture such a device but since we're throwing ideas out there I thought I would share this one.

Came to me in the shower by the way.
edit on 29-3-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: Typos



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 

Thanks for that, OkieCowboy. It seems kind of low to me, too. Not sure how they got those figures as I recall reading that the uranium fuel has a melting point of 3,300 degrees K. So I figured that the corium would have to be hotter than that as it's molten fuel. Back in my younger says when I used to cast metals like zinc and aluminium, the fire had to be hotter than the metals' melting point or else they wouldn't melt.

But the trouble is I am not very clever with things like this. I just go on what seems to make sense to me and so I could be completely wrong. Right now I'm trying to figure how something can have a certain melting point, but when it's molten it can be cooler than before it melted. But radioactive processes could be a different kettle of fish.

Mike


edit on 29/3/11 by JustMike because: typos



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by iWokeUp
 


It was inevitable that we would get something - they were expecting it afterall!

My concern is how radioactive this stuff is going to get, how honest our govt is and what the short and long term effects will be.



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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*for people in the UK*

Not sure if this was posted, bit out of date but the nuclear analysis starts atv around 44.00, quite basic for you guys i guess but at least they gave a genuine analysis of radiation and exposure

www.bbc.co.uk...

-xxx-



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Dawn at Fukushima, March 30, 2011. 6 a.m.



Another dawn over the wonderful Land of the Rising Sun...

And what will this day bring?








Image source and credit: TEPCO Fukushima Webcam



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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also the guy said iodine has a half life of only 8 days ... shouldn't this mean it's at safe levels after a few weeks?

sorri again for *ignorant*, but ignorance is bliss .... apart from now, where its quite frustrating to be honest

^^

-xxx-
edit on 29-3-2011 by xxcatcatcatxx because: spelling



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by JustMike
Thanks for that, OkieCowboy. It seems kind of low to me, too. Not sure how they got those figures as I recall reading that the uranium fuel has a melting point of 3,300 degrees K.



Seems wikipedia confused C with K


Corium Behaviour and the Lower Head Thermal Response after a Core Meltdown
www.nuclear-option.org...


If the temperature of that mixture is higher than its liquidus temperature (2800-2900 K), the mixture will be in the liquid state. The mixture of molten core materials is known as corium.

edit on 29-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by xxcatcatcatxx
 





also the guy said iodine has a half life of only 8 days ... shouldn't this mean it's at safe levels after a few weeks?


well it's all going to depend on the amount put out...it all just isn't going to go away in 8 days.. and at this point we don't know the amount put out yet...or when it's going to stop



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by xxcatcatcatxx
also the guy said iodine has a half life of only 8 days ... shouldn't this mean it's at safe levels after a few weeks?


I kind of feel like I'm beginning to spam this link now, but the data from the July 1962 events is just too important to understand when trying to assess the future impact of this fallout on crops and water. Really important reading

Verify the data and calculations for yourself, but I'm not comfortable with what's happening. I would take all of this "safe for humans" talk with a grain of salt.



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by JustMike


Wish they had a closer cam... so we could see the restoration activities first hand



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Destinyone
 


And what has been gained?
The media spin doctors have succeeded in smearing almost every group that dares to fight back through demonstrations in our so called "freedom of speech"
Chatting and commenting in facebook doesn't quite cut it as a political budging tool, unless its regarding some superficial menial matter.

Real issues are handled by real people, real HUMAN beings, face to face, now dont get me wrong, great idea that as many people as we can knows that the media isn't helping much to help solve the problem, but as linguists say, its all in the meaning of the words, the INTERNET is a "Virtual" place, its seems like a real place, but its not located anywhere, its made out of concepts, its made out of bits and bytes, naturally all the actions taken in and around the Internet are VIRTUAL.

We need better generations, less oblivious to the world in general, its the younglings the ones that will have to solve this issue, as it wont go away by itself, we need to help the younger generations to CARE about something other than themselves or the things they own!

The exception defines the rule, I know and have met very interesting individuals, teens and children and young adults that are aware and want to do something better, but the sad fact is that most simply dont care, or worse yet, dont want to care because its too depressing, too far away, too tired to do something else than play with video games or whatever kids do these days...

Virtual actions call for virtual solutions.
How can our modern societies be so jaded and disconnected from everything is for me a greater tragedy than the nuclear plants melting down, that we allowed the human spirit and imagination to get so tangled in disbelief and denial.

I´m afraid that the only sane solution would have been not building those plants in the first place, its similar to the "tragedy" of housing getting washed away when the dried river bed returns to life and water flows once more.
The answers aren't so obvious, the solution implies greater sacrifices, who amongst us will step up and take our lives back?

I´m a firm believer that the only things we can change are on a personal level, and if the change is true, the fractal nature of the universe will find ways to overflow our limitations and produce lasting effects in our environment, this time for the better!



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by okiecowboy
or when it's going to stop


That is the key factor... WHEN it stops... A few months after it stops putting out new stuff it will be safe, but at this time it is still increasing

Now I need to go get a new router... maybe the radiation knocked it out





posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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Bullshat alert...

english.kyodonews.jp...

Plutonium detected near nuke plant 'not significant': U.S. official
WASHINGTON, March 29, Kyodo

A senior U.S. Energy Department official said Tuesday the level of plutonium detected in soil at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan is ''not significant.''

''Certainly it would be a concern if it were in significant levels...It was not significant at this point,'' Peter Lyons, acting assistant secretary of the department's Office of Nuclear Energy, said in a hearing of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee.

He also noted finding plutonium that was derived from either the operating reactors or the spent fuel pools ''would not be regarded as a major surprise.''

Tokyo Electric Power Co., the operator of the stricken reactors, said Monday that plutonium has been detected in soil at five locations at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

In the Senate panel, Lyons said, ''Current information suggests that the plants are in a slow recovery from the accident.''

Although long-term cooling of the troubled reactors at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station is essential, ''it has not been adequately restored to date,'' he added.

Lyons revealed the United States plans to provide Japan with radiation-hardened robotics to assist the country's efforts to deal with the nuclear crisis.

The official also suggested that the nuclear accident in Japan will not alter U.S. energy policy, saying, ''We view nuclear energy as a very important component to the overall portfolio we are trying to build a clean-energy future.''

President Barack Obama is scheduled to deliver a speech on U.S. energy security in Washington on Wednesday and may touch on the Japan's nuclear disaster and its implications for the U.S. policy.

==Kyodo



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Radioactive Iodine detected in Glasgow Scotland.



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