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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


LOL, exactly, it's just so sad what's going on with the news. Makes you realize how very little real information we get every day when we don't have an army of independent researchers collaborating. ATS was, and hopefully will continue to be, the best place to gather not only all the various info from MSM sources around the world, but also the info from sources MSM won't touch until it's days later.




posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by ceekay

Once the fission products, those materials that uranium breaks down into during decay (like the I-131 and Cs-135), lose their own radioactivity, then the fuel will no longer need cooling as long as there is not a critical mass. If the control rods are in place, this takes a few days. If the control rods are damaged, or if there was a meltdown, then it will take much longer as there will be a critical mass and the uranium will have to basically burn itself out as well.

No one probably knows the answer to this in the affected plants as of yet. How long it will take will be determined by government inspectors after they survey the sites and dissect the plant logs, probably not for a few weeks. During that time, coolant will continue to flow if at all possible.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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Kyodo News reports: BREAKING NEWS: Top of MOX fuel rods 3 meters above water at Fukushima plant: TEPCO


Not good. It takes 1mg of MOX to contaminate as much as 2 Kg of Uranium... that's 2 MILLION TIMES LESS...



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Wow. Can anyone confirm this stat?

That's pretty freakin' scary if it's accurate.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Thanks for that answer.

So, all of these plants then, that have shut down due to the quake (if anything goes wrong with coolant pumps) then Japan could end up with a whole host of reactors going into meltdown or partial meltdown?

From reading posts on here, and watching NHK world, there are reported 3 reactor problems at one site, and 2 at another. This number could keep rising! It sure doesn't look good does it, so much for worse scenario safety measures!



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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MOXMain article: MOX fuel
Mixed oxide, or MOX fuel, is a blend of plutonium and natural or depleted uranium which behaves similarly (though not identically) to the enriched uranium feed for which most nuclear reactors were designed. MOX fuel is an alternative to low enriched uranium (LEU) fuel used in the light water reactors which predominate nuclear power generation.

Some concern has been expressed that used MOX cores will introduce new disposal challenges, though MOX is itself a means to dispose of surplus plutonium by transmutation.

en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 13-3-2011 by ressiv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Wow. Can anyone confirm this stat?

That's pretty freakin' scary if it's accurate.


Yes it is.

Source, in the Safety chapter

6.2.4 Accidents at MOX fabrication plants
Accidents at MOX fuel fabrication plants have occurred. In June 1991, the storage bunker of the MOX fuel fabrication plant in Hanau, Germany, was contaminated with MOX. It occurred after the rupture of a foil for container packaging in the course of an in-plant transportation process. Four workers were exposed to plutonium.29 This accident was the main reason the fabrication plant at Hanau was shut down.

In November 1992, a fuel rod was broken through a handling error, and MOX dust was released during the mounting of MOX fuel rods to fuel assemblies in the fuel fabrication facility adjoining the MOX facility in Dessel, Belgium. In the event of such accidents, if the ICRP recommendations for general public exposure were adhered to, only about one mg of plutonium may be released from a MOX facility to the environment. As a comparison, in uranium fabrication facility, 2kg (2,000,000mg) of uranium could be released in the same radiation exposure. A one mg release of plutonium can easily happen during various smaller incidents.30

edit on 13-3-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Oh, okay, I read that before but didn't understand what it was saying about the release of MOX versus the release of uranium. Wow, that is just insane.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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according to BBC - 2042: Professor Patrick Regan, radiation and environmental protection expert from Surrey University, has told the BBC that it appears none of the secure vessels holding radioactive material at the reactors in Japan has broken, and "it looks like the worst is over" -Reuters

That's some good news.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by ceekay

Well, you have to take into account how these things are designed... how anything is designed, for that matter.

The first thing you look at in structural design is worst-case scenario. In the case of nuclear plants, that is a seismic event of a specified magnitude. It is simply not possible to design anything to continue operation under any possible scenario, so you choose what you believe will be the worst scenario that is likely... in this case, it was a 7.9 magnitude earthquake, the strongest on record for that area.

The plants simply were not designed to accept damage form an 8.9 quake, and certainly not a 20-foot tsunami. And that's not an error in judgment as much as it is an error in prophesy... no one knew, no one even suspected an earthquake of this magnitude followed by a tsunami. I heard on CNN a while ago that any retrofitting that occurs will be based on an 8.9 quake in the future.

Apparently, while it was the earthquake that caused the initial shutdown, it was the tsunami that created the major problems... along with the very safety measures that were instituted to prevent a disaster of such proportion! When the plant shut down, the coolant pumps continued to run until the tsunami wiped out the electric grid in that area. With the plant not operating and the grid down, it had no power. So the diesel generators kicked in for about an hour, but apparently the tsunami had contaminated the fuel and they quit. So the batteries kicked in, designed to keep the pumps running for 8 hours.

During that 8-hour time period, operators and authorities are supposed to secure other power sources, but when they did so and brought in mobile generators, the plugs didn't match up. As far as I have been able to tell, they didn't straight-wire the generators (bypass the plugs) due to electrical safety requirements. So the pumps stopped as soon as the batteries were gone, until the generators could be connected. That caused a meltdown to start, which probably ruptured the reactor housing and allowed a leak (the extent of which has not been determined).

Incidentally, it was the response to the lack of cooling (the venting of the reactor) that led to the explosion as well, which could have possibly exacerbated any leaks. If the diesel generators had not froze, or if power had been maintained during the switch from batteries to emergency generators, this would have been a picture-perfect shutdown.

Hopefully the simple difficulties that led to this first disaster have been overcome, and the rest of the reactors will not have to go so long without cooling. I would say if there are no more major alerts by this time tomorrow, it would be safe to breathe again.

In the long run, these plants performed admirably under the conditions that were experienced. Yes, there may have been leaks, but nothing, and I mean nothing of an intensity as compared to Chernobyl.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Please read into my thread. I have a unique perspective on the nuclear meltdown because of my job

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 13-3-2011 by THEDUDE86 because: added



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by JackBauer
 


But he also said this:


# 2044: Professor Regan said when they vented the first reactor at Fukushima on Saturday - triggering the explosion at the plant - "that vapour would almost certainly have had a little bit of radioactive material called nitrogen 16 - which is in all reactors. That decays away very quickly, in 5 to 10 seconds, but if some of the fuel rods - which appears to have been the case - were compromised, some of the radioactive material from the fuel would have got into the steam and that would also have been taken out." So a key question seems to be to what extent the fuel rods had begun to melt down.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by THEDUDE86
 


Why not just contribute your "expertise" to this thread which is already 40 pages and already has everyone's attention and already has all the current info so far? Flags and stars for you?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00

That is exactly my concern.... the plant I worked in had no cameras inside the reactor. It was explained to me that if there was an event, no camera on earth could withstand the radiation and heat inside the reactor and thus there was no reason to spend money on something that wouldn't work.

The position of the control rods was shown in the control building by a bank of sensors designed to handle the design stresses, in this case a 7.9 quake instead of the 8.9 experienced.

So really, there is no way to know exactly what happened at this time. If the fuel melted, then it is likely the sensors are at least suspect. They have detected Cs-135, which should not be there if the control rods were engaged fully. They have detected I-131, which indicates reaction as well, outside the reactor. So I am expecting the result to be a partial, controlled meltdown.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Ignore what the BBC are saying. There taking stance on what the Japanese are saying without any questionable judgement themselves unless proven otherwise from other sources. BBC have been completely atrocious during th2 past 2 days downplaying the Nuclear Threat. Having their 'experts' on who are nothing more than panelists than actual regulatory commissioners.

When you realise the Japanese aren't even telling the Nuclear IAEA what's going on truthfully, and them unable to back it up due to noone on the ground being able to independently verify the Japanese claims. You'll see that anything coming out of such lines the BBC are stating is purely unfounded. We'll only know the true extent of whats going on when the IAEA and FEMA get readings from air samples crossing the Pacific into the US in the coming 2 days.



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by RUDDD
 


Yeah i would have to agree. The levels of radiation being detected outside the plant, and the elements being detected all contradict what japanese officials have been telling us. I just turned CNN off, it's too confusing and annoying listening to people on there say "everything is fine".



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by RUDDD

I don't think the Japanese government even knows what's going on right now. Think about it: the operators are watching banks of gauges for any sign of distress, and reacting immediately to any change. They don't have time to give a full interview, and even if they did, chances are the politicians wouldn't understand the techno-lingo. The emphasis right now is on making sure the situation doesn't degrade, not making press conferences.

Add to that the fact that there is also a slew of major rescue/recovery efforts ongoing, where people's lives are actually in more imminent danger than from the nuclear plants! Even the speech-writers only get 24 hours in a day.

No one with credentials is going to give an answer right now to questions when they have no idea what happened. The answers are not in a physics book this time; they are inside nuclear reactors that are too hot, both via radiation and via temperature, for a human to survive for more than a few seconds. Well, maybe Bill Nye or Michio Kaku will say something, because they'll say anything that pays the bills.


All we can do is wait and pray that they have everything under control. No conspiracy just yet; just a disaster playing out.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I can't find it now, but I saw Bill Nye on earlier on one of the MSM channels. For the first time ever with him, I was really impressed. He seemed nervous, and said that he was concerened about the conflicting messages coming out Japan, and that there were some real concerns. Weird, eh?



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by lasertaglover

Bill Nye said that?


Maybe I should revise my opinion of him....

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by lasertaglover
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I can't find it now, but I saw Bill Nye on earlier on one of the MSM channels. For the first time ever with him, I was really impressed. He seemed nervous, and said that he was concerened about the conflicting messages coming out Japan, and that there were some real concerns. Weird, eh?


Bill Nye's claim yesterday that caesium is used as a control rod material is false. Caesium is a nuclear fission product.




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