It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 381.htm
513
<< 378  379  380    382  383  384 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:50 PM
link   
reply to post by 00nunya00

Yes, it might buy a day or two, but the water in the reactor is not the primary concern... the water table in the ground is. That's the steam explosion that concerns me, and I don't think we can dry it up.

TheRedneck




posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:53 PM
link   
reply to post by vox2442
 





Given that as of this morning's IAEA brief, the RPV temperatures at daiichi 1 and 2 were 142C (and falling) and 96C (and falling), and that pressure at 2 and 3 remain stable, and furthermore that radiation levels both in the suppression areas and surrounding the plant are decreasing, I think you might be a *tad* on the alarmist side by suggesting the best case scenerio is melting through to the water table.


wow the IAEA , so trust worthy , let us see, hmm criticatily event ( disavowed ) then measure the temps later because laymen are dumb in an oscillating thermal radiation reaction, wow I believe you I am sure the event is over and I am now looking forward to next weeks episode of "the real world"
edit on 27-3-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2011 by Silverlok because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:56 PM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Agreed. I'm just saying all the LOLs by other posters about my suggestion that it might have been dripping might actually be wrong, and what we saw with the black smoke, like you said, was the initial dripping and that vaporized all the water away leaving a dry floor for the mass-ejection of the rest of the corium not to make the expected explosion. If it has the graphite bowl in the concrete "catcher" then that buys more time than just concrete alone, as that's the whole reason why it's there----to create a spread-floor for the corium to NOT breach the floor completely. I'm not syaing it will work completely and it won't get through, I'm just saying that might be how we had a breach already, days ago, and why we haven't *YET* seen the explosion and catastrophe we've been expecting in such an event. It's not yet gotten through to the groundwater, but soon.



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:57 PM
link   
reply to post by vox2442

Those readings indicate one of three things:
  • The temperature readings are in error.
  • There is no more corium in the reactor containment, meaning it has already melted through the containment floor.
  • Every nuclear physics book ever written is wrong and it really is possible for a critical mass of uranium to just decide to stop reacting (which means atomic bombs do not explode either).
I personally think it is one of the first two (the very first based on TEPCO's actions to this point), but if you want to believe the third, be my guest.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 11:59 PM
link   
1. Current Situation
The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi plant remains very serious.

The restoration of off-site power continues and lighting is now available in the central control rooms of Units 1, 2 and 3. Also, fresh water is now being injected into the Reactor Pressure Vessels (RPVs) of all three Units.

Radiation measurements in the containment vessels and suppression chambers of Units 1, 2 and 3 continued to decrease. White "smoke" continued to be emitted from Units 1 to 4.

Pressure in the RPV showed a slight increase at Unit 1 and was stable at Units 2 and 3, possibly indicating that there has been no major breach in the pressure vessels.

At Unit 1, the temperature measured at the bottom of the RPV fell slightly to 142 °C. At Unit 2, the temperature at the bottom of the RPV fell to 97 °C from 100 °C reported in the Update provided yesterday. Pumping of water from the turbine hall basement to the condenser is in progress with a view to allowing power restoration activities to continue.

IAEA Briefing on Fukushima Nuclear Accident (27 March 2011, 13:30 UTC)

Unease

A spokesman for Japan's nuclear watchdog, Hidehiko Nishiyama, said the level of radiation in puddles near reactor 2 was confirmed at 1,000 millisieverts an hour.

"It is an extremely high figure," Mr Nishiyama said.

The radiation levels are so high, that emergency workers near the contaminated water would have received four times their maximum annual dose of radiation in just one hour.

Japan nuclear plant data error was 'unacceptable'


We need to know what "temporarily melted down" means................



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:00 AM
link   
reply to post by 00nunya00
 


The the energies involved clearly invalidate any concept of "drip"



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:01 AM
link   
reply to post by Silverlok
 


Really? Can you explain exactly how? Redneck doesn't seem to agree with you.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by TheRedneck

Now add into this mix the fact that we actually have three plants going into meltdown, each on its own time schedule. Even if you could stop one, all three would have to be stopped before radiation levels would even begin to subside. And I haven't even mentioned the spent fuel rods, adding another layer of radioactive barrier to working conditions.

I believe the best case scenario is for the corium to eventually, over the next days/weeks, make its way to the water table and create a steam explosion, but one that is not strong enough to cause radiation to enter the Jet Stream. If this cools the corium enough, there may be a window of opportunity when some sort of mixture like that you mention can be added before the heat and radiation again become too intense for work to continue. It won't stop the radiation effects, but it could save part of Japan and prevent any future radiation from being released uncontrolled into the environment.

At least that is my hope. My only hope, to be honest.

TheRedneck


Given that as of this morning's IAEA brief, the RPV temperatures at daiichi 1 and 2 were 142C (and falling) and 96C (and falling), and that pressure at 2 and 3 remain stable, and furthermore that radiation levels both in the suppression areas and surrounding the plant are decreasing, I think you might be a *tad* on the alarmist side by suggesting the best case scenerio is melting through to the water table.



URGENT: Radioactive water at No. 2 reactor due to partial meltdown: Edano
TOKYO, March 28, Kyodo

The government believes highly radioactive water detected at the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is due to a partial meltdown of fuel rods there, its top spokesman said Monday.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference that the government believes that the meltdown was only temporary.

==Kyodo



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:03 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


That was my thought exactly. There's no way the material can stop reacting, so how can temperature decrease? If the temperature is really decreasing i had the same idea, its already melted and traveled away from the sensors.




Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference that the government believes that the meltdown was only temporary.


Yep! Funny how that uranium just gets tired, and goes on vacation.
edit on 3/28/2011 by JackBauer because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/28/2011 by JackBauer because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:04 AM
link   
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Originally posted by sonnny1
We need to know what "temporarily melted down" means................



Maybe they expect the half-melted fuel rods to miraculously recompile themselves into an intact condition and stop behaving so badly.

I'm sorry, there is just no excuse for saying they are "temporarily" melted down, it's ludicrous.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:06 AM
link   
reply to post by 00nunya00

I would be surprised if it turned out to be true, I must admit... but I also must admit it is a possibility. I don't think it had much effect due to water.. I seriously doubt there was much if any water in the containment bowl anyway. The reactor doesn't hold heat very well, being metallic, and water steams at a measly 100°C. The graphite is good for over 3600°C.

I have been informed earlier in this thread that graphite was not used in the construction of the bowl... which might be a good thing. It would have bought a little time, but at the expense of adding heat. As it turns out, that decay chain of carbon-14 is highly exothermic (produces a lot of extra heat).

And with that, redneck is off to bed!

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:07 AM
link   
reply to post by JackBauer
 


When lies from people in authority become this grand, the only thing to do, the instinctive thing to do, is run away. Escape.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:08 AM
link   
reply to post by OuttaHere
 


I totally agree. Just be honest,and say a full meltdown will occur,and it cant be stopped.....due to our negligence,greed,and stupidity. The time for evacuation should have begun days ago.Whats going to happen when they decided to tell the truth? Mass panic. I feel for Japan.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:09 AM
link   
reply to post by 00nunya00

Whoa, whoa, whoa, now! I just said it was possible, but not likely. See post above.

I do like the way you think things out though... it shows a good grasp of the situational variables.

Now I'm really, really off to bed.


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by 00nunya00

I would be surprised if it turned out to be true, I must admit... but I also must admit it is a possibility.


Thank you.
Not impossible.

Sleep well. Thanks for another day of great insight.

ETA: to your follow-up: I wasn't trying to claim your agreement with me, merely your disagreement that it was impossible.
edit on 28-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Those readings indicate one of three things:
  • The temperature readings are in error.
  • There is no more corium in the reactor containment, meaning it has already melted through the containment floor.
  • Every nuclear physics book ever written is wrong and it really is possible for a critical mass of uranium to just decide to stop reacting (which means atomic bombs do not explode either).
I personally think it is one of the first two (the very first based on TEPCO's actions to this point), but if you want to believe the third, be my guest.

TheRedneck


- if the corium had melted through the floor, what would the building internal temperature be? low enough to send workers in to lay cable without them bursting into flames?
- if the corium had melted through the floor, what would the radiation readings be? higher or lower, and over what area?
- if the corium had melted through the floor, how much higher than 1Sv would the water in the basement be expected to read? If you were to trod in it, would you be released from the hospital on your feet or in a lead coffin?

Sorry, it sounds to me like you're engaging in little more than speculative fiction at this point. But hey, you're in Alabama, I'm just some guy in Japan. I'm willing to bet that in a year from now, I'll still be here posting. You?



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by IDBIT
URGENT: Radioactive water at No. 2 reactor due to partial meltdown: Edano
TOKYO, March 28, Kyodo

The government believes highly radioactive water detected at the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is due to a partial meltdown of fuel rods there, its top spokesman said Monday.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told a news conference that the government believes that the meltdown was only temporary.

==Kyodo


I read that here, thanks. See my post a couple of pages back regarding the translation of "melt" and "meltdown". This is what happens when all the foreign staff freak out and leave the country.



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:17 AM
link   
reply to post by 00nunya00
 

First response , good , perhaps you should understand that I look at this as a collective, if YOU believe that I disagree with someone it tells me a great deal about your objective, If I combine where he has been right with where I have been right we get closer to the truth an analysis of your contributions is almost entirely in the negative , in fact where we ( I mean myself and the redneck)disagree ( in your opinion ) shouldn't you be looking for why to draw our minds together to help in the solution?

this problem is one that requires all of us to be the community that we can be, so far for me group sourcing has led to amazing insights and help for thousands a opposed to separatism,



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:18 AM
link   
reply to post by windwaker
 


or kill



posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 12:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by vox2442
Sorry, it sounds to me like you're engaging in little more than speculative fiction at this point. But hey, you're in Alabama, I'm just some guy in Japan. I'm willing to bet that in a year from now, I'll still be here posting. You?



I can't speak to the rest of your post, as the technical aspects are beyond me, but dude, you're just some guy in Japan-----he's a guy in Alabama that works in a nuclear power plant and has done so for a long time. In fact, nuclear power was his first job ever, IIRC. He's provided a lot of level-headed analysis and insight for two weeks now.

And Japan? Well, they added 4 reactors with a single cooling loop to this scenario. I think the redneck in Alabama is up by at least one here.




top topics



 
513
<< 378  379  380    382  383  384 >>

log in

join