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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Styrge
Sometimes, one can be staring directly at the Hope Diamond and see nothing but the mud around it.
You are right, and I have been wrong on that point this whole time. the Fukushima plants do not use a secondary contained loop. The reactor water is sent directly to the turbines themselves.
The only thing I can offer in my defense of my ignorance is that I cannot fathom who in their right mind would even consider allowing radioactive water at that severe intensity out of a tightly controlled primary loop. The very concept even yet is boggling my mind. But, indeed, that is what has been done in Fukushima.
Sorry guys, redneck make a boo-boo. I still think I have a better track record than TEPCO though.
Chernobyl wasn't the disaster everyone 'knows' it was. Certainly it was an economic problem. The only deaths that can be attributed to it are the poor souls on site at the time, including the night shift chief engineer who, on orders from superiors, dismantled most of the safety systems and then screwed something up. We'll never know exactly what he did, because he was killed in the explosion that followed. Add the brave souls who fought the fire. Something less than 50 died as a result of that, and they looked directly into the naked core or were killed in the initial explosions.
So, without safety systems, and a single containment system, the live, hot, flaming core burned through the only floor, directly into a deep pool of cooling water, and the resultant steam blast propelled corium through the single layer containment system into the atmosphere. What was left behind burned for 10 days or so, until smothered.
The designs of the Fukushima reactors have triple layer containment systems, all of which have worked. The secondary radiation in the #3 turbine house is probably from a secondary pipe, not the primary or secondary containment vessels. And the two gents who got very minor radiation contamination yesterday had:
1) ignored procedure and had not donned the proper radiation clothing
2) ignored the blaring radiation alarms that told them there was a problem
but still are fine. They get a nice, brave story to tell their grandkids, when they should be embarrassed for being such boneheads.
Despite the massive expulsion of radioactive materials, even the World Health Organization, which has followed the cancer rates in Europe minutely since then, says the only indication of elevated cancer is in a group of heavily radiated Ukranian teenagers whose parents had been told that is was OK to drink contaminated milk and vegetables by the g#$%&mned Communist govt. That particular contaminant, a radioactive isotope of iodine, namely I-131, the same stuff that has spread around Japan, is benign stuff unless ingested, and ingested in very large quantities, and ingested very soon because it is very unstable, like the ex-Mrs. , and only has a half-life of 8.04 days. So, about 16 days on from the reactors being stopped, the amount of this stuff anywhere in the Japanese environment is now is less than 25% of what it was at the moment the reactors were correctly and immediately scrammed, moments after the quake. So, the Japanese id'd the radio iodide, plowed under the veggies, and the milk poured out on the ground. They'll continue to monitor it, and in weeks there won't be enough to even ID outside an advanced laboratory.
Oh, so how did those Ukranian teens fare as a result of massive, totally unnecessary, yet intentional exposure to that radio iodine? Of the 12,500, over 10-12 yrs after, exactly 65 developed thyroid cancer, less than 0.5%, so it is difficult to tell if other issues were at play, like hereditary factors or the rampant iodine deficiency in most poor diets. Many Western societies deal with that by mandating iodine in table salt, that's why it's included. Thyroid cancer is inconvenient, but well understand, and if id'd and treated early the survival rate is almost 100%. I talked to a guy yesterday who has no functional thyroid, my mother-in-law doesn't, they take some pills and life goes on.
But I predict zero will get thyroid cancer in Japan as a result of this. In fact, it is really hard to detect elevated levels of cancer in minor incidents like this because all data clusters; no one knows why, it is simply the way of the universe, and cancer data clusters, too (witness the hysteria over high tension electric wires, which have zero ionizing radiation, therefore has nothing to do with cancer.) At the end of the day, the WHO determined the biggest health hazard to people living next to the very small exclusion zone around Chernobyl is alcoholism. Not radiation, despite many people ignoring standing prohibitions to not eat forest mushrooms, etc., which are demonstrably contaminated with (relatively) high levels of radioactive cesium.
Three Mile Island was a yawner, a made for TV drama. Completely different technology. Despite total loss of cooling water, the core meltdown (about half the fuel rods broke up and slumped to the bottom of the containment vessel), some idiotic operational mistakes, the total exposure to someone standing inside the fence, next to the reactor building, was 50 millirems. Sounds like a lot, eh?
That is the same as the radiation of 8,111 bananas. The hot operational core sat in the bottom of the containment vessel, being contained (that's why they call it a containment system....), and etched the bottom of the vessel some 5/8", out of a 8 to 12 inch thick steel vessel. Clean up was expensive, sure, but was done.
People living 5-10 miles away who didn't move received something like the equivalent doses of 800 bananas.
No one died. No demonstrable increases in cancer as a result; all data clusters so you'll find fringe interpretations to the contrary, as someone abuses data for their own political purposes. Kind of like the global warming cabal that selectively ignored lots of data that didn't support their thesis.
It is a problem, an ugly problem, but it is a very local problem.
Originally posted by windwaker
reply to post by MedievalGhost
MedievalGhost, is the government blocking you from leaving? I don't understand why you are not at an airport or at least leaving city limits and heading south by now.
You do realize that if you stay in Tokyo any longer that you are at risk of death or lasting bodily damage, right?
PLEASE SIGN BELOW:
Originally posted by vox2442
Pollen allergy. Half of tokyo wears them this time of year. Every year.
"Japan is fastidious to the point of being obsessive," said Kyle Cleveland, a cultural sociologist who teaches at Temple University's Tokyo campus. "People are willing to acknowledge and recognize the value of not making their co-workers or classmates sick."
A total of 58.2 percent of respondents do not approve of the government's handling of the nuclear crisis at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, while 39.3 percent expressed approval, according to the latest Kyodo News survey released Sunday.
The nationwide telephone survey conducted Saturday and Sunday also found that the approval rate for Prime Minister Naoto Kan's Cabinet came to 28.3 percent, up 8.4 percentage points from the previous survey in mid-February.
Perhaps a new acronym is needed to guide radiation safety - how about As High As Relatively Safe (AHARS)?
Originally posted by Noscible
Chalk up another person going back to Japan. I'm flying out tomorrow, heading to Tokyo. I'll let you guys know if I start growing extra arms and legs from the radiation. What's nerve wracking about this rad business is this: it's unseen for the most part, and in some cases, the symptoms may only manifest themselves years later--but those symptoms can be extremely debilitating.
Originally posted by kismetphayze
reply to post by MedievalGhost
Would you say that the people who are in the areas that have not been evacuated feel pressured to stay because of jobs, etc? That's the feeling I'm getting. Like people are afraid to leave and be wrong about the risks and then not have a job to come back to.
Originally posted by monica86
reply to post by kismetphayze
the VOA journalist on twitter also noticed people wearing masks in the north. He asked why and was told people wear them because it's cold
When these elements first reached Sergieff 20 years ago, they came in the form of yellow rain. It was not long after that residents in her hometown knew it wasn’t simply “pollen” – which is what government officials assured them, she said.