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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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It's so embarrassing for people when they decide that the inside of their head and five minutes of the evening news are all they need to debate with other people who have collectively put in hundreds of hours in research, study and exegesis on a subject.
edit on 26-3-2011 by sepermeru because: grammar




posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Oh yes, and they have invested in aerial surveillance equipment, too, that has broken the 30km no-fly-zone around the plant and gotten the *real* info that everything's okay. I guess Edano should be hooking up with WP because his own opinion (as quoted a few above) is that we can't be optimistic yet.

Good thing we have the unbiased WP which has never shown any agenda ever before to tell us the REAL info! They have better information than the US Navy, which won't get near the plant with a 180-mile pole.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Be-careful, that kind of assessment is dangerous in this thread... Stick with the gloom and doom and you'll get more stars, and everyone will agree with you.



Big talk from someone who seems to fish for his own stars.

Don't worry, FF, why are you even still here? Everything's going to be fine, right? We're not worth your time and energy----you just keep visiting this thread to laugh at our concern, right?

Really, if you KNOW everything's gonna be fine because the WP says so, why do you keep coming back here? Sounds like an agenda to me.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Hello folks!

I have been following this thread as a lurker since the beginning. I have also been watching NHK, RT and Al Jazeera (useless now) constantly since this all went down. In the mean time I have been trying to post updates to some social news sites, but the downvote brigade is out in full force out there. I was attacked for calling the first explosion as a hydrogen problem right after I saw it. I'm a fearmonger for pointing out that there was a huge risk of criticality in pool 4, over a week ago. For example, the highest rated Fukushima post today is about the seawater radioactivity being 1,200x above expected, the highest rated reply, is something like "that's still not that high, not dangerous."

So, I have decided to contribute where people actually want to hear something other than sugar coated spin. I'm not going to try to convince anyone who does not want to listen anymore. This is not a 9/11 problem or JFK problem, the physics and chemistry are indisputable. I have decided to jump aboard here and lend a hand, where I can. The Redneck, for example has done a great job staying on top of things here, so hopefully with more open minds thinking together, we can figure out what is really going on here.

I wanted to contribute some quick and simple input to this dialogue that may be obvious to most of you here, but have not seen summed up in one place in this thread before.

What has happened there:

- The reactors have been breached. When they vent reactor steam to the atmosphere, that is a breach, you have a core, however indirectly open to the atmosphere. If the worker standing in water story is true, this is likely the same water from within the reactor as the steam. The Cesium 135 can only be coming from the cores. It does not occur in nature, and is only man made. Same with Iodine 131. If the pools are intact, as they are saying, where else would this stuff be coming from? The lunchroom? They are products of fusion.

- There has been or is one or multiple criticality events at Fukushima. It can be the only source of the neutron spikes. That's a fact.

Holes in the official narrative from a simple physics point of view:

- How do you "inject" anything remotely without electrical power?
- How do you "inject" water into a hot reactor without it flashing over to steam, and thereby increasing the pressure and blocking further water?
- How do you continue to "inject" anything into a supposedly closed system for a couple of weeks without it filling up or creating massive steam clouds if it is breached?

Radiation Confusion:

- You have two sources of radiation (I'll keep this simple): Direct ionizing radiation from a "hot" object. It along with neutron radiation can then cause things around the source to become radioactive themselves under the correct hard radiation conditions.This will drop of significantly with distance. The second type is radiation from radioactive isotopes in the form of fallout. I have seen much purposeful confusion in the media on this point, and a reluctance to use the word "fallout". Unless there is a huge criticality and we live in Tokyo, we mostly only have to worry about the isotopes, however the waste, debris and site will be a huge problem as an emitter of the former...

The "Legs"

- Getting back to the flow of this thread, all I see in the worker decontamination pictures are hospital workers shielding likely naked men from the media. The legs look discoloured from the diffused light through the blue tarp. I don't see booties, blisters or anything else, just some poor guys heading for their "Silkwood" scrub down.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Why does it have to be either a worst case or a best case?

The reality of the situation is likely somewhere in the middle, a place few ever seem to want to go here.

You assume that I believe the worst is over without even seeing the IF in my first post on this.

Rather than attacking any good news, because you don't want to have it in this thread, why don't you take your own challenge to me and create a thread an tell us all just how bad you believe this really is?

Any improvement in this situation is good news, whether you like it or not... At some point the worst WILL be over and that is where the real story will begin.

Have a nice day, or a really bad one, whichever makes you more happy.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


I don't think the accident is winding down, but coverage of it certainly is.

Look here and you will see that the number of sources covering this story is on a sharp decline.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Just tuned in this morning and listened to NHK....

Tsunami....

It has been determined that a 150 km section of the fault moved 30 meters and waves hit shore at places as high as 16 meters


Re the plant....

Seawater is pouring out in huge volumes from the sea vents... the guy they interviewed says they don't know where its coming from...






He says...

...lights are on in 2 control rooms but radiation is too high to work on running the main power cables
...they don't know where the water is coming from that is pouring into the sea... REALLY?
...the water in the turbine rooms is 1.5 METERS in one
...they assume the leaks are from the reactor but they don't know for sure
...TEPCO is studying the situation but don't know hoe to proceed

There was more but I will have to catch that on the next cycle
www3.nhk.or.jp...


Here is the amount of water coming out of the plant...





There is also a Hole in the roof of the #3 turbine building... first time they showed this but photo is dated the 18th




They keep repeating the litany that the lights are on and water pumping continues... and all this time the water is pouring out to sea and flooding the turbine rooms...



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:41 AM
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It's quiet right now so let's not bicker amongst ourselves to fill the void. I prefer this thread on topic. You both made your points. If you want to argue go private. IMHO

I have a google news feed on and I am amazed at the number of times a certain pro nuclear energy article appears and has for days. I don't believe that article is that popular it is being pumped by someone.
'



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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What I find to be funny are people claiming things are looking up when we just got the worst news possible at this point...extreme radiated water whose only source could be leaked fission reactions OUTSIDE the reactor building.

Wonder how warm it is INSIDE the building? Tepco keeps saying they don't know what is actually going on because they have no proof...meaning they have not been INSIDE the building. Why isn't anyone asking them WHY they are not going inside the buildings to determine the true extent of the damage and crisis? Wouldn't that be the first thing they should do?

Fact is they can't because radiation levels are so high any fool dumb enough to do so would probably be dead in a few minutes. Plus Tepco would lose their best figleaf in all this and have to actually tell the world not only how bad it is but how bad it could get.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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I don't think the latest iaea report has been posted.. is this the first time they have mentioned 'possible' containment breach re reactor 3?

"1. Current Situation

The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi plant remains very serious.

The restoration of off-site power is still progressing and instrumentation is being tested in Units 1, 2 and 4.

At Unit 1, the main change is the injection of freshwater to the Reactor Pressure Vessel (RPV). The temperature measured at the bottom of the RPV is stable at 144 °C. Pressure in the RPV, containment vessel and suppression pool have come back down after having increased from 22 to 24 March.

At Unit 2, the injection of freshwater to the RPV commenced at 01:00 on 26 March. The RPV temperature is stable at 100 °C at the bottom of the RPV. The pressure measured in the RPV and in the containment pressure vessel is stable at circa one atmosphere. Freshwater is also being injected in the RPV of Unit 3. Temperature measurement at the feed-water nozzle of Unit 3's RPV is still judged to be unreliable, but at the bottom of the RPV it is stable at 102 °C. White "smoke" continues to be emitted as of 23:00 UTC on 25 March from Unit 3, as it does from Unit 4. Unit 3 shows a consistently low containment drywell pressure of circa 1 atmosphere.

There have been high radiation readings in Units 1 and 3, the likelihood of damage to the containment integrity of Unit 3 is a cause for concern.

We understand that a total of 17 TEPCO workers and contractors have received doses between 100 and 180 millisievert. TEPCO measured the dose rate of 400 millisievert per hour above the surface of the water in the Unit 3 turbine building where 2 workers had been contaminated.

Units 5 and 6 are still in cold shutdown, with slight variations in RPV water temperatures (down a few degrees at Unit 5, up a few at Unit 6).

2. Radiation Monitoring

Deposition of radioactivity is monitored daily by Japanese authorities in all 47 prefectures. From 24 to 25 March, the daily level of deposition decreased in all but one prefecture. The highest value was observed in the prefecture of Ibaraki, where on 25 March a deposition of 480 becquerel per square metre for iodine-131 was observed; the highest value for caesium 137 was measured in Yamagata at 150 becquerel per square metre. For the Shinjyuku district of Tokyo, the additional deposition of iodine-131 and caesium-137 on 25 March was below 200 becquerel per square metre.

Monitoring of the marine environment has continued. New data for 21 to 25 March on radionuclide concentrations were made available for the discharge area 330 metres south of the pipeline of Fukushima Daiichi. The levels are generally quite high and vary significantly with time. The highest levels were detected at 25 March with, for example, 50 000 becquerel per litre of iodine-131, 7,200 becquerel per litre of caesium-137, and 7 000 becquerel per litre of caesium-134. Other short lived radionuclides were also reported. No new data has been reported by Japan from the monitoring stations located about 30 km offshore.

Monitoring of drinking water is on-going: iodine-131 in drinking water was detected on 24 March in 12 prefectures, whereas caesium-137 was detected in 6 of the 47 prefectures. In Tochigi, a value of 110 becquerel per litre was observed, which is above the recommended value for drinking water to be consumed by infants (i.e. 100 becquerel per litre). All other measurements were far below 100 becquerel per litre. All caesium-137 concentrations measured were lower than 10 becquerel per litre, which is significantly below the limit set by Japan of 200 becquerel per litre.

Environmental monitoring of soil, surface water, vegetation and air continues to be carried out in the Fukushima prefecture. The monitoring results indicate high levels of contamination. The values reported are generally consistent with measurements of gamma dose rates and beta-gamma contamination carried out by an IAEA monitoring team.

Two IAEA teams are currently monitoring in Japan. One team made gamma-dose rate measurements in Tokyo and the south of Tokyo in the prefecture of Kanagawa. Gamma-dose rates ranged from 0.05 to 0.2 microsievert. Another monitoring team made additional measurements at distances of 23 to 97 km (in a southerly and south westerly direction) from the Fukushima nuclear power plant. At these locations, the dose rates ranged from 0.73 to 8.8 microsievert per hour. At the same locations, results of beta-gamma contamination measurements ranged from 0.02 to 0.4 Megabecquerel per square metre.

Two prefectures (Ibaraki, Tochigi) reported iodine-131 in unprocessed raw milk, but the measurement results were below the regulation values set by the Japanese authorities. In addition, iodine-131 was not detected in any of the samples taken from the remaining four prefectures (Chiba, Gunma, Kanagawa and Saitama) and Tokyo. Caesium-137 was not detected in any of the samples.

For two prefectures (Ibaraki, Tochigi) iodine-131 and cesium-137 were reported in spinach and other leafy vegetables above the regulation values set by the Japanese authorities. However, iodine-131 and caesium-137 were either not detected or were below the regulation values, in all of the samples taken from the remaining four prefectures (Chiba, Gunma, Kanagawa and Saitama) and Tokyo. In all six prefectures and Tokyo, no iodine-131 and caesium-137 were detected in leeks, or measurements were well below the regulation values set by the Japanese authorities."

www.iaea.org...
edit on 3/26/2011 by checkmeout because: added source



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


There are no more hydrogen explosions. They removed the panels.
I guess in 20/20 hindsight Tokyo Electric should have removed the top panels on the day of the
9.0 Earthquake.
See there? We are already learning from our mistakes.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Isn't it odd that the Fukushima II just a few miles down the coast weathered the same earthquake &
Tsunami wave with no disasters? Maybe the back up diesel generators are in watertight
enclosures.
edit on 26-3-2011 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
What I find to be funny are people claiming things are looking up when we just got the worst news possible at this point...extreme radiated water whose only source could be leaked fission reactions OUTSIDE the reactor building.

Wonder how warm it is INSIDE the building? Tepco keeps saying they don't know what is actually going on because they have no proof...meaning they have not been INSIDE the building. Why isn't anyone asking them WHY they are not going inside the buildings to determine the true extent of the damage and crisis? Wouldn't that be the first thing they should do?

Fact is they can't because radiation levels are so high any fool dumb enough to do so would probably be dead in a few minutes. Plus Tepco would lose their best figleaf in all this and have to actually tell the world not only how bad it is but how bad it could get.



This would be a good time for Tepco to use those 200 high tech radiation suits, donated by Radshield in Fl.
Oh wait....those are only for the execs of Tepco....never mind



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by brocktoon
- How do you "inject" anything remotely without electrical power?
- How do you "inject" water into a hot reactor without it flashing over to steam, and thereby increasing the pressure and blocking further water?
- How do you continue to "inject" anything into a supposedly closed system for a couple of weeks without it filling up or creating massive steam clouds if it is breached?


I have been asking that all along... makes no sense at all. And if the reactors are leaking as even NHK is now saying, how can they keep injecting more water (and now they are saying fresh water by firetruck pumps)

Insanity...



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Why does it have to be either a worst case or a best case?


Ummmm....THAT'S MY POINT TO YOU. You said you "concede" and that's it all horrible and we should all take KI pills, as if that's what anyone in this thread has said, even once.

YOU are the person making it seem black-or-white. You can't produce a single post where I have implied that it's all over and we're beyond hope, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT POSTED THAT, EVER.

I am pregnant. I want my child born with one head, two arms and a brain. Excuse me for not accepting your assurances that "the worst is almost over."


The fact is, you're throwing tantrums every time someone questions whether your "everything's going to be fine" opinions are based in reality or not. The rest of us are asking questions, seeking verification, not getting excited until we see proof, and hoping that we're very wrong in our worries.

YOU are the one who jumps on EVERY SINGLE piece of supposedly good news and then throws around the "if you're not reassured, you're an alarmist" BS. Excuse us for having heard all this "good news" for two weeks and none of it ever turns out to be true. Oh----they laid cable and got the power back on and the pumps are cooling right? Oh wait, no, no pumps are working, the power is only lighting lightbulbs. Hey, but everything's under control now, right?

It's getting old. We're not getting excited about good news because IT NEVER TURNS OUT TO BE TRUE. Give the good news at least 6 hours to be verified as true, and then we can talk.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Catchup time... good morning everyone.

reply to post by xxPUSH0Noo

Hey Redneck (or anyone else who knows as so many have contributed so much) would you happen to know this as I feel you have been my teacher in all this nuclear stuffs...


Fukushima accident to be reclassified to the same level as the Chernobyl.... In fact so high are the releases that they are amount to three INES 7 accidents.

Does this mean that it would be say a '21' or a '10' or different from that as I don't know how the scale operates.

No, it just means that the level would be higher. The INES scale is qualitative, not quantitative... big words, I know, but they mean that while a 4 would be much worse than a 2 (qualitative), a 4 is not necessarily twice as bad as a 2 (quantitative). The reason is that there really is no way to assign a single number to how bad a nuclear accident is... it contains radiation release (Sieverts) over an area (square kilometers) affecting a group (population) and causing deaths (mortality rate) over a period (time). Which number do you use? All are applicable to exactly how bad the accident is.

So instead, the INES will sit down and discuss it, and eventually assign it a classification. Until then, all the different governments and organizations that are putting forth classifications are just guessing at what it will be determined to be.

I do believe we may see a new level due to Fukushima... to date, the scale only goes to 7. We may need an 8.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by zorgon

The core is a closed system... you can't just flow water through it and let it drain out

There are inlet valves to allow water inside from outside... just not supposed to be used except in emergency cases. Just as the venting valves, cracking these open requires an immediate report to the NRC in the US as an incident.

And speaking of cracking, it does appear that the reactor vessels now have their own built-in water removal system.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
Wonder how warm it is INSIDE the building? Tepco keeps saying they don't know what is actually going on because they have no proof...meaning they have not been INSIDE the building. Why isn't anyone asking them WHY they are not going inside the buildings to determine the true extent of the damage and crisis? Wouldn't that be the first thing they should do?


I have seen no pictures of anyone working on the site since the three workers. The videos from NHK helicopter shows the smoke but I see no water spraying or red trucks in those images... reports a few days back said they had stopped yet other reports keep saying spraying and injection continues and the ever repeated "The lights are on"

I wonder if there is anyone minding the store at this point.

Last night Edano said in a press release that TEPCO has NOT been giving the government updated data and he strongly advised that they start giving accurate data quickly so the government can act appropriately. The prome minister put another person in charge of the situation and I have not heard what he will be responsible for, but he is supposedly experienced

www3.nhk.or.jp...



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Also, number three vessel may not be "cracked" ... Reports are showing that the leakage came from piping in the turbine housing not from the vessel itself... But that is still unconfirmed.

I hope that is spun reporting. That water came from wherever the corium is, and I really, really, really hope it is not flowing in the pipes to the turbine room.

Of course, corium would melt the pipes... but my point is, don't listen to the spin. The water came form around the cores. I am certain of that.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Well that is a large volume of water coming out of those sea vents... so if the flow is that strong I guess there must be some pumping still going in.

The report that got me last night was they said they have no idea what the level is in the pools... for all they know they may be over filling them.... can't believe no one is even looking... high radiation must be very high if no one wants to take a look



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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At this point I do not know why Tepco is still "in charge" of the situation.

Why hasn't an outside group stepped in and taken charge?

How much longer are we going to have to listen to "we just don't know?"

Infuriating!



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