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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by windwaker
I think it might be too late for an evacuation of Tokyo. If the yellow rain that fell was radioactive fallout, then everyone in Tokyo is contaminated.


Not to late yet... the exposure right now is mainly the iodine and that has a short half life. And dosage is based on long term exposure so getting out soon would still be okay before it gets worse. I just don't see it happening. Where do you evacuate 47 million people to and house them and feed them and still maintain an infrastructure to support such a move

At least here in the US we have FEMA camps ready...

ermmmm...

edit on 25-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I imagine that the boron that the they have been feeding into the mix is aimed at water going to the storage pools for the spent rods.

I only know what I am guessing at and what I have read, but from my understanding, normally, they don't put boron into the storage pools.

MY Guess, they have fuel rods knocked over by the quake starting up the fission process in the storage pools.

Added edit - Japan has dumped all the boron they have into the storage pools, and failed to even slow them down. Clearly there is a much bigger problem than is being admitted.

The reactors are small compared to Chernobyl, but the storage pools are another story. I don't enough to know how much of a threat those spent rods are, but clearly they are a considerable threat.

Now we have reactor breaches.

The situation is just starting to get ugly. This might make Chernobyl look like a minor incident.

We should be seeing headlines at this point saying, "Russia and the U.S. are rushing emergency supplies to contain ongoing nuclear disaster in Japan"., instead of these tepid reports, "New worry" and Raising concerns".

Evacuate Tokyo! We might have to evacuate California if they don't get these reactors and fuel storage pools entombed soon.


edit on 25-3-2011 by poet1b because: see added line



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Styrge

I got pages on skateboards, clothing, and one hit to Wiki's page on Carbon Capture & Storage....


What am I looking for?

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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The separation between the Royal Family, and his peoples, has been one of long standing tradition in Japan. The Emperor does not speak to his peoples, unless it's a very serious matter.

I would take his gesture of the giving of Royal Family stores, to some of his people, as a deep apology, and empathy with his people. He also knows they are probably walking dead, and it could be taken as a heart felt apology.

Japanese culture is deeply ingrained, and traditions strictly adhered to. This gesture by the Royal Family, is no small thing.

Des
edit on 25-3-2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by jadedANDcynical
reply to post by mrbillshow
 


The Emperor giving his people a gift?

That has got to be significant, JustMike what would you say this indicates?


My math might be off but it looks like this gift averages out to 13 eggs, 1/3 a chicken and maybe a can of sausage for each of the 93 evacuees?

Be still my heart...



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical

Actually, I'm thinking the radiation (neutrons from heavy water) are strong enough to be deteriorating (eating, if you will) and destabilizing the components in the affected areas outside the core.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Destinyone
The separation between the Royal Family, and his peoples, has been one of long standing tradition in Japan. The Emperor does not speak to his peoples, unless it's a very serious matter.

I would take his gesture of the giving of Royal Family stores, to some of his people, as a deep apology, and empathy with his people. He also knows they are probably walking dead, and it could be taken as a heart felt apology.

Des


I'm surprised the Empress didn't throw in a little cake.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by zorgon

At least here in the US we have FEMA camps ready...

ermmmm...

On the West Coast, mainly.

Things that make you go...


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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Getting a little tired of them saying that they are continuing to work on these buildings but not ONE picture of any activity, not even from the NHK helicopter. Are they really actually working there since the evacuation?

They did just say the workers do have internal contamination but its not serious enough to require special treatment

www.livestation.com...



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
On the West Coast, mainly.
Things that make you go...

TheRedneck


Yeah and National Geography is trying to 'help'



What is the matter with people these days? That opening music was enough to get me shaking

:shk:



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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BTW - I hate to be cynical about this "gift", but I find it curious that while Japan is asking for help globally (even the Koreans are chiming in) the Emperor tosses a few eggs and snausages into the basket.

I've seen a couple articles critical of the slow donations worldwide to Japan and I'm not sure why, but this kind fo stuff will not help that.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
I'm surprised the Empress didn't throw in a little cake.


I would have
After all 'let them eat cake" is classic...

Well at least here in the Kingdom of Caid we have the SCA and as such a lot of Medeival survival skills. I can set up a very comfortable tent city in about 4 hours. In a pinch we can support 60 comfortably, though we have had feasts for 85.




California is the largest chapter with three Kingdoms... I feel safe with my support group



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
...
MY Guess, they have fuel rods knocked over by the quake starting up the fission process in the storage pools.

Added edit - Japan has dumped all the boron they have into the storage pools, and failed to even slow them down. Clearly there is a much bigger problem than is being admitted.

The reactors are small compared to Chernobyl, but the storage pools are another story. I don't enough to know how much of a threat those spent rods are, but clearly they are a considerable threat.


Some good info here:


Greater Danger Lies in Spent Fuel Than in Reactors

Figures provided by Tokyo Electric Power on Thursday show that most of the dangerous uranium at the power plant is actually in the spent fuel rods, not the reactor cores themselves.

The electric utility said that a total of 11,125 spent fuel rod assemblies were stored at the site. That is about four times as much radioactive material as in the reactor cores combined.

Now those temporary pools are proving the power plant’s Achilles’ heel, with the water in the pools either boiling away or leaking out of their containments, and efforts to add more water having gone awry. While spent fuel rods generate significantly less heat than newer ones do, there are strong indications that some fuel rods have begun to melt and release extremely high levels of radiation.
....

When the water in a storage pool disappears, the fuel rods’ uranium continues to heat the rods’ zirconium cladding. This causes the zirconium to oxidize, or rust, and even catch fire. The spent fuel rods have little radioactive iodine, which has a half-life of eight days and has mostly disappeared through radioactive decay once fission stopped when the rods left the reactor cores. But the spent fuel rods are still loaded with cesium and strontium that can start to escape if the fuel rods burn.
....
But Tokyo Electric said this week that there was a chance of “recriticality” in the storage pools — that is, the uranium in the fuel rods could resume the fission that previously took place inside the reactor, spewing out radioactive byproducts.
....
If a lot of fission occurs, which may happen only in an extreme case, the uranium would melt through anything underneath it. If it encounters water as it descends, a steam explosion could then scatter the molten uranium.

At Daiichi, each assembly has either 64 large fuel rods or 81 slightly smaller fuel rods. A typical fuel rod assembly has roughly 380 pounds of uranium.

One big worry for Japanese officials is that Reactor No. 3, the main target of the helicopters and water cannons on Thursday, uses a new and different fuel. It uses mixed oxides, or MOX, which contains a mixture of uranium and plutonium, and can produce a more dangerous radioactive plume if scattered by fire or explosions. According to Tokyo Electric, 32 of the 514 fuel rod assemblies in the storage pond at Reactor No. 3 contain MOX.
...


This was written 9 days ago.
I believe the steam explosions mentioned have since happened.
We've also seen fires which could involve the fuel rods, and non-steam explosions.

It's not surprising no-one knows what to do next.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by mrbillshow
BTW - I hate to be cynical about this "gift", but I find it curious that while Japan is asking for help globally (even the Koreans are chiming in) the Emperor tosses a few eggs and snausages into the basket.

I've seen a couple articles critical of the slow donations worldwide to Japan and I'm not sure why, but this kind fo stuff will not help that.




It's the "gesture" that is what counts, not the amount and what was given...this is way out of the norm for the Emperor in the first place...I personally find it a bit frightening.

The main problem with aid donated to Japan, food, medical supplies, all those things, they are still for the most part...SITTING WHERE THEY WERE DROPPED, on the tarmac at airports and loading docks...due to the red tape by the Japanese Gov't in INSISTING that all proper paper work is filled out! Crazy no???

Des
edit on 25-3-2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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A piece of info regarding the internal doses of the reactor parts I only saw once in the news from GRS (in german) from 24.03.2011:

Nach IAEA Informationen vom 23.03.2011 um 6 Uhr MEZ (14 Uhr Ortszeit in Japan) liegen Dosisleistungen für das Containment und die Kondensationskammer in den Blöcken 1-3 für die Anlagen in Fukushima Daiichi vor.

Translation: according to information from the IAEA dating from 23.03.201 14:00 local japanese time the radiation readings for the containment and the condensation chambers of blocks 1 to 3 of Fukushima Daiichi are available:

Block 1: 46 SV/h (Containment);
31.6 SV/h in the condensation chamber

Block 2: 52 SV/h (Containment);
1.8 SV/h in the condensation chamber

Block 3: 60.5 SV/h (Containment);
1.75 SV/h in the condensation chamber

And... yes, we are talking about Sieverts, not millisieverts and not microsieverts here. Just to give an impression at what is at stake when the containment is breached.

From the high readings of the condensation chamber of reactor #1 I would simply infer that the containment of #1 is breached.

The high radiation outside reactor #3, which poisoned the three workers, seems to imply to me that the condensation chamber is leaking.

But surely some hide-and-cover specialists will soon explain that the value of 31.6 SV/h was an instrument error, too.
edit on 25-3-2011 by maria81 because: translation added



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Destinyone


Would the Japanese be offended if we did air drops directly in the affected area like we did in the middle east?



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by butcherguy

Chrome moly steels haven't seen much use until very lately so far as I know... of course, now they are used in almost everything.

These reactors were built back in the late 60s... do you know if chrome moly steels were used back then? I know Mo was used in electric motors that far back, especially industrial grade.

TheRedneck

Okay, I found a book, "Extractive Metallurgy of Molybdenum" by C.K. Gupta, it is on google books.
Here is a link: Google Books

Apparently molybdenum has been used all through reactors since 1959. Alloyed with the zirconium in cladding, moly washers between pellets in fuel rod assemblies, steel in the vessel, and it has been alloyed with uranium in the fuel pellets (5-10% by weight) years ago.

Finding molybdenum in the water may be be another indication of core meltdown, but not necessarily a RPV breach, knowing this.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by maria81
 


And 8 SV/h is certain death in minutes of exposure for a human.

Redneck, what is your opinion on what can or should be done if the radiation levels rise to lethal levels at the site?

If no human can work at the site, aircraft can't work from above, what is the plan to save lives, and perhaps prevent a massive release of radiation that could spread farther than Japan?



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
reply to post by Destinyone


Would the Japanese be offended if we did air drops directly in the affected area like we did in the middle east?


A church group, www.samaritanspurse.org... did go into Japan last week, and brought in their own heavy equipment, bypassing the Japanese Gov't, to get aid to the tsunami victims...Gov't was not happy, but who cares, the people are hurting.

Video of aid being delivered...without aid of Japanese Gov't.
www.samaritanspurse.org...
Offended...hmmm probably...but who gives a flip...get the aid to them any way possible I say.

Des

edit on 25-3-2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2011 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy

OK, that makes sense then that they would find molybdenum, including Mo-99 from neutron bombardment, in the water. but it does indicate a reactor vessel breach, simply because this is more evidence that the water in the turbine room originally came from within the RPV itself. Otherwise, it would still be there!

If water is leaking out of a vessel, it is simply a pretty safe bet that the vessel contains a hole for the water to leak out of.

TheRedneck



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