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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 333.htm
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posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Okay, so he wasn't saying plutonium isn't found in the cores of uranium nuclear reactors, only that it's not found naturally in uranium ores that might be dug up or whatnot. That makes sense, I just didn't get the context in which he was disagreeing with you. The terminology is confusing! I thought he was saying that there's not going to be plutonium issues with reactor core breaches. Thanks for the clear up!




posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by monica86
well well....

from the NY times


A senior nuclear executive who insisted on anonymity but has broad contacts in Japan said that there was a long vertical crack running down the side of the reactor vessel itself. The crack runs down below the water level in the reactor and has been leaking fluids and gases, he said.


www.nytimes.com...




He further says this


The severity of the radiation burns to the injured workers are consistent with contamination by water that had been in contact with damaged fuel rods, the executive said.

“There is a definite, definite crack in the vessel — it’s up and down and it’s large,” he said. “The problem with cracks is they do not get smaller.”


And a Physicist states....


A Japanese physicist, who asked not to be identified so as not to damage his relations with the establishment, said it was “ridiculous” that the workers had not been wearing full protective gear.


Looks like some of the experts are beginning to speak up, yet still holding onto that 'face' by staying anonymous



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by monica86
well well....
from the NY times


Some more quotes from that same NYT article ...

Note: This part is specifically discussing the reactor in unit #3 ...

"There is a definite, definite crack in the vessel — it’s up and down and it’s large," he said. "The problem with cracks is they do not get smaller."



"They can’t even figure out how to get that out, it’s so hot" in terms of radioactivity, he said. A big worry about reactor No. 3 is the mox fuel. The nuclear industry has no experience with mox leaks, and it is possible that unusual patterns in the dispersal of radioactivity from the plant partly result from the mox, he said.



But Michael Friedlander, a former nuclear power plant operator in the United States, said that the presence of radioactive cobalt and molybdenum in water samples taken from the basement of the turbine building raised the possibility of a very different leak.

Both materials typically occur not because of fission but because of routine corrosion in a reactor and its associated piping over the course of many years of use, he said.

The aggressive use of saltwater to cool the reactor and its storage pool for spent fuel may mean that more of these highly radioactive corrosion materials will be dislodged and contaminate the area in the days to come, posing further hazards to repair workers, Mr. Friedlander added.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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OH CRAP!!!! Did you see page TWO???


The contamination of the water in the basement of the turbine building where the workers were injured — a separate building adjacent to the one that houses the reactor — poses a real challenge for efforts to bring crucial cooling pumps and other equipment back online.

“They can’t even figure out how to get that out, it’s so hot” in terms of radioactivity, he said. A big worry about reactor No. 3 is the mox fuel. The nuclear industry has no experience with mox leaks, and it is possible that unusual patterns in the dispersal of radioactivity from the plant partly result from the mox, he said.


Okay so that matches the press release that they don't know what to do... but THIS


But Michael Friedlander, a former nuclear power plant operator in the United States, said that the presence of radioactive cobalt and molybdenum in water samples taken from the basement of the turbine building raised the possibility of a very different leak.

Both materials typically occur not because of fission but because of routine corrosion in a reactor and its associated piping over the course of many years of use, he said.


www.nytimes.com...[]



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Here's an NYT graphic about how the contamination may be spreading ...

How Radiation Contamination Can Travel



... they probably should have named it "How F__cked Could Japan Be Now?"



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator

Looks like you posted as I was typing


So now we need Redneck to tell us what he meant about the cobalt and molybdenum



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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In a previous post I mentioned the act of "climatizing" the public to disaster levels through small but incremental increases in factual disclosures. It appears obvious to me through statements of the last 2 days the next level they wish to acclimate the public to is the extent of the core damage in #3.

Expect the next disclosure within 48 hours to read something like... "While we have no proof of reactor core damage in (meaning no visual proof) recent events and radioactivity readings indicate the possibility of a core breach in #3 to be likely."

Then 24 hours later..."Core breach in #3 confirmed".

Then the same dog and pony show for the other 3 damaged reactor buildings including the spent pools over the next week. This is all leading up to a potential evacuation of Tokyo...IMO.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
 


A couple of things pop out at me from the spreadsheet:

Open a vent hole on the rooftop for avoiding hydrogen explosion

and

Not damaged (estimate)


From #'s 5 & 6 Building Integrity and Main Control Room Habitability & Operability rows respectively
source

If 5 & 6 are inoperable, why would they need to vent the building to avoid hydrogen explosion?

If they can only estimate non-damage, how can they gauge operablility?

I love the phrasing from the text balloon on the map page..."The accident that brings environmental impact..."

You don't say?



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by monica86
well well....

from the NY times


A senior nuclear executive who insisted on anonymity but has broad contacts in Japan said that there was a long vertical crack running down the side of the reactor vessel itself. The crack runs down below the water level in the reactor and has been leaking fluids and gases, he said.


www.nytimes.com...




He further says this


The severity of the radiation burns to the injured workers are consistent with contamination by water that had been in contact with damaged fuel rods, the executive said.

“There is a definite, definite crack in the vessel — it’s up and down and it’s large,” he said. “The problem with cracks is they do not get smaller.”


And a Physicist states....


A Japanese physicist, who asked not to be identified so as not to damage his relations with the establishment, said it was “ridiculous” that the workers had not been wearing full protective gear.


Looks like some of the experts are beginning to speak up, yet still holding onto that 'face' by staying anonymous


Make no mistake, these disclosures from unamed people as well as the quotes in the NYT article are planned and manipulated releases of information from Tepco and the JapGuv.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
  • Cobalt - used in several 'high-tech' alloys for high temperature low-expansion applications. The offending isotope is probably Co-60, formed by neutron absorption of Co-59.

  • Molybdenum - extensively used in industrial motors as conductive, greaseless contacts. Also widely used in lubricating oils, epoxies, etc. Offending isotope is probably Mo-99, formed by neutron absorption of Mo-98.

If the Mo-99 is from the motors, that means there is little to no lubrication left on the commutators... they might make interesting paperweights, or unique cigar lighters if anyone tries to fire them up. Cobalt might be from the turbine blades, meaning they are shot too.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


If I am understanding you, you're telling us we've got traces of molten radioactive isotopes form interior core components?



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Molybdenum - extensively used in industrial motors as conductive, greaseless contacts. Also widely used in lubricating oils, epoxies, etc. Offending isotope is probably Mo-99, formed by neutron absorption of Mo-98.
Couldn't the molybdenum also be from the steel that the reactor pressure vessel and piping are constructed from? They would be more likely to see contact with molten core materials.

Found something: Chrome moly steel alloys are used in nuclear power plants.

vnit.academia

It can be found in the first paragraph when you open the document.


edit on 25-3-2011 by butcherguy because: added



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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english.kyodonews.jp...

"Radiation victims to be sent to key medical facilities across Japan"

Article translation - "It will be impossible to maintain continued work on the troubled reactors without continued high exposure and critical radiation dosages to workers. Expect casualties."



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 


I think it might be too late for an evacuation of Tokyo. If the yellow rain that fell was radioactive fallout, then everyone in Tokyo is contaminated.

China said that two Japanese visitors were found to have high levels of radiation.

Also, on The Alex Jones Show today they argued that an evacuation of 30 million people from Tokyo would be near impossible.

God help us.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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To add to it molybdenum is toxic even if it is not the radioactive isotope 99.

imoa.info

Then it spawns more ugly isotopes when it does decay(when you are dealing with Mo99)

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
edit on 25-3-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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www3.nhk.or.jp...


Emperor and Empress send food to quake survivors

Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko have sent fresh eggs and other delicacies produced at the Imperial ranch to earthquake survivors taking shelter near their ranch.

The donation was made to encourage the quake evacuees. On Friday, 1,200 eggs, 30 smoked chickens and canned sausages were delivered to an evacuation center in Mashiko Town, Tochigi. The shelter is some 20 kilometers away from the ranch.

93 people from Fukushima, one of the hardest-hit prefectures, are now living there.

An evacuee said he is very grateful for the present and that he will enjoy the rations with his family.

Friday, March 25, 2011 22:07 +0900 (JST)

I don't know the production of the Imperial Ranch, but doesn't this look kind of meager from the Japanese Emperor? I haven't read any other donations from the Imperial household, maybe this is just one of many.

Oh well, there goes the Empress's eggs benedict for breakfast the next month or so.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by mrbillshow
 


The Emperor giving his people a gift?

That has got to be significant, JustMike what would you say this indicates?



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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About detected elements:

There's almost everything coming out from a nuclear reactor. In fission the atom spilts in various ways creating random elements (some more than the other):


Then there is the neutron flux that keeps transmutating everything. Lead to gold, gold to mercury and so on for example. So everything you measure, you'll find in some quantities. I guess they used some meter that normally is used to detect exotic corrosion and of course that is happening too.

THEREDNEC: About alternatives, google CCS.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy

Chrome moly steels haven't seen much use until very lately so far as I know... of course, now they are used in almost everything.

These reactors were built back in the late 60s... do you know if chrome moly steels were used back then? I know Mo was used in electric motors that far back, especially industrial grade.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by windwaker
reply to post by mrbillshow
 


I think it might be too late for an evacuation of Tokyo. If the yellow rain that fell was radioactive fallout, then everyone in Tokyo is contaminated.

China said that two Japanese visitors were found to have high levels of radiation.

Also, on The Alex Jones Show today they argued that an evacuation of 30 million people from Tokyo would be near impossible.

God help us.


I had been quoting 13 million in Tokyo then found out that was Tokyo proper, there are 37 million including the surrounding "counties".

I don't think Tokyo has been radiated to a large degree as yet. The danger is a large explosion combined with a south or south westerly wind that could drive it there in a couple hours, but even TRN does not believe this is a high probability.

I have to believe the JapGuv has a specific set of circumstances and numbers in their head that would trigger an evacuation and are in fact preparing for that as covertly as possible, but it seems as if that preparation is for slowly escalating danger, one over a couple weeks, and not an explosion.



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