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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Okay the officials are telling the public that even though their are high levels in the milk and spinach, they are okay to eat as long as its not long term, please don't over react...

Yet at the same time they have ordered dairy farmers in the area to dump their milk.. and told the agricultural department to stop shipping certain products

This is INSANITY

www.livestation.com...




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by zorgonNo info on damage to sea life..


This is one of the issues that has me really concerned is that it's not a nuclear disaster confined to land with the Ocean being so close. That really makes this worse then Chernobyl in my opinion because of proximity to vast amounts of water.

Also, it's probably why they are able to contain the problem better; without that much access to seawater we would probably be in a far worse situation. What a double-edge sword!



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Wertwog
 


This might be nit-picking, but the Chernobyl tomb was designed to last 20 years and has been left there for 25, past its expiration date. That's one of the big reasons to get it done, quickly.


Just to give an idea of what was locked away in Chernobyl, and I wish we had a modern reading of what it's like inside the sarcophagus (unless one has been theorized and posted - I missed it if it's there).


The sarcophagus locked in 200 tons of radioactive lava, 30 tons of highly contaminated dust and 16 tons of uranium and plutonium.[1] In 1996 it was deemed impossible to repair the inside of the sarcophagus as radiation levels were estimated to be as high as 10,000 röntgens per hour (normal background radiation in cities is usually around 20-50 microröntgens per hour).[3]

On December 22, 1988 Soviet scientists announced that the sarcophagus would only last 20—30 years before it needed repairing.

In 2013 the New Safe Confinement is expected to replace the existing sarcophagus. The new containment device will allow the sarcophagus to be dismantled and radioactive material to be removed.


Chernobyl Sarcophagus Wikipedia

Graphite chunks found surrounding the plant were also a major bane for the team working on building... the pieces containing the highest radiation concentration.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Unsafe levels are in their water levels and they're only supposed to wash with it. What is over 100 million people drinking?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade
 


Right. Guess I was assuming that the primary loop was still intact, at least to some degree anyhow. But yea, once sea water is introduced, the plant is not going to be used any more. Chlorides, heat and high pressure are not kind to reactor plants.

Thanks


edit on 21-3-2011 by Hugues de Payens because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by ljonesyuk
Wonder how this guys research got on...If you can't out run it try live with it

www.dotmed.com...


Very interesting. It seems that those few Russian scientists have that ability naturally. They even said others got the radiation sickness, but not them. Seems their team members died of heart attack and stroke instead... This could be very useful data for the future.

Thanks for the link



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Hugues de Payens
 


Once the flow stopped the boiling in the cores produced the hydrogen that eventually had to be vented off, as pressure built too high.. Venting the hydrogen contributed to the explosions that blew up the tops of the reactor structures.. Everything that could go wrong did, and the worst started when they were unable to run emergency pumps.

That will be the ultimate lesson here for every existing nuclear power plant on earth...

I wish we could convert them all to natural gas and globally ban nuclear power, and cut back a lot on energy usage until a safer alternative is found, like cold fusion.

So many of these plants are built near the ocean... What if the next nuclear disaster comes following a 500 foot tall tsunami resulting from a deep ocean impact asteroid or comet fragments and this same scenario plays out at coastal nuke plants all over the entire ocean simultaneously?

If we don't change our ways, who knows how bad it could get if there is a next time... Assuming we survive and learn from this one.




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
This could be very useful data for the future.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Soviets kept good records about all the people involved in the original clean-up. If an on-going medical history of everyone involved had been kept from then until now - that would be incredibly useful. Alas, I don't think it does beyond a small sample.

edit on 2011-3-21 by EnhancedInterrogator because: spelling, grammar, formatting, etc.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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This is really insane. I've been following this thread from page 1 and I think that the radiation levels are really high right now and the dangerzone should be extended.
I remember Chernobyl very well, I lived in the Netherlands, more than a thousand miles westwards of it and all the spinach and milk had to be destroyed because of high levels of radiation. Farmers had to keep their cattle indoors. It made headlines for many weeks. And this large accident which is far from over is almost ignored by the mainstream especially since Libya.

BTW, I wonder how they are gonna build a shield around it, being so near at the ocean. Salt water lets stuff easily erode and the danger of earthquakes and tsunamis don't make it easier. Maybe praying for a meteorite on those plants with the right size might that would go so fast it would puncture the earth's crust would solve the problem.

edit on 21-3-2011 by Regenstorm because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Just posted on NHK's English page ...
TEPCO underestimated tsunami, quake

.. basically just more confirmation of stuff already discussed here ...


Tokyo Electric Power Company says its nuclear power plants in Fukushima were hit by a 14-meter-high tsunami. That was more than double the maximum expectation.

The electric company on Monday checked the walls of the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini nuclear power plants. It found that the water reached higher than 14 meters above sea level. The company had only expected a tsunami of 5.7 meters at the Daiichi plant and one of 5.2 meters at the Daini.

The Fukushima Daiichi plant lost sufficient cooling functions when the tsunami destroyed facilities along the coast, such as seawater pumps and emergency diesel generators. The buildings that house the reactors and turbines are built on grounds 10 to 13 meters above sea level, but became partially inundated.

The power company said it had underestimated the biggest earthquake to be magnitude 8. It said it admits that this month's magnitude 9 quake was beyond its calculation.
Tuesday, March 22, 2011 05:08 +0900 (JST)


Note: Emphasis in quote added by poster (i.e. me)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Wertwog
 


This might be nit-picking, but the Chernobyl tomb was designed to last 20 years and has been left there for 25, past its expiration date. That's one of the big reasons to get it done, quickly.


Source.



Built to last 50 years,experts were forced to reduce its recommended lifespan to just 20 years meaning a replacement is due in 2006.


However, the main point being the new structure must resist decay.

I did find this, however, from BBC, which is an interesting idea.
edit on 21-3-2011 by Wertwog because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 

Getting a little off-topic here, but here's the current "plan" for Chernobyl ...
New Safe Confinement



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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I have a few concerns, . .the epa has a website that shows rad data in the us, Numbers in denver and to the east are exceptionally above average, ..It's unfortunate that to me this makes sense, . .Here is the 1% lie they fed us amongst all the real, . .they said that the meltdowns in Japan could not reach the jetstream and that it would take a nuclear explosion, . .but if we remember we were also told two other things during the japan crises, . 1. remember after the tsunami we were told that the survivors in shelters were hoping to escape the cold, (japan was having cold weather. . .2 The melting fuel rods reached thousands of degrees, . they were very hot, ... .then the plant had numerous explosions, . ..heat rises

I believe that the lighter more numerous particles did in fact rise very high into the jet stream, while the heavier particles fell into the ocean on their way to the west coast, .. .I believe the radiation is traveling over the west coast and settling east of denver, . . .heres why, ... .

As a person who once panned gold , i know that the heavier metal settles downstream behind boulders in the stream and behind the sluice rungs , we must also remember that the jetstream is not a flat 2 dimensional object like unto what we see on maps, . it is a fluid fast moving current in the air, . .. I believe the rockies acted like a sluice rung or a boulder to this high moving jet stream, . .I think it created a slower moving downcurrent on the east side which caused the heavier radioactive dust particles to settle east of the rockies, .. if you look at the numbers east of denver, it will affirm this theory, . .. whats even more disturbing is how many readings in this immediate area are listed by epa as zero or no data



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Okay the officials are telling the public that even though their are high levels in the milk and spinach, they are okay to eat as long as its not long term, please don't over react...

Yet at the same time they have ordered dairy farmers in the area to dump their milk.. and told the agricultural department to stop shipping certain products

This is INSANITY

www.livestation.com...


I think you're either working from a slight mistranslation, or you didn't catch the full story.

The comment regarding the short term effects was directed at people who may have already eaten contaminated spinach, maybe from their garden or something that morning. Shipments were halted, and the contaminated food is being destroyed.

the title of the thread is "Japan declares nuclear emergency" - and with that declaration, a law governing (among other things) testing of food and drinking water has gone into effect. As far as food safety goes, that's been dominating the news here since the story broke.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


Well, I'm not sure how reliable the original reporting of "tribe.net" is, but Wiki mentions nothing about any initial projection of how long it *should* last, only that about two years later they knew it would only last 20, with 30 being the far-optimistic estimate.

I'm sure they intended to build it for "as long as it will last" but I really don't see how anyone could have believed that shaky bunch of blocks would have lasted 50 years, by even the most rose-colored view. They almost immediately had to reinforce it.

But again, nit-picking. I think making it sound like it was *supposed* to last 50 years, but that the mess underneath is making it less viable, is really trying to lead people off-track when considering what we can do for this long-term, you know? What they built at Chernobyl was slap-dash and good-enough. Hopefully, what they'll do with Fukushima will be much safer from the beginning. The long-term situation isn't hopeless, is all I'm getting at.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by thevolunteerwino
I have a few concerns, . .the epa has a website that shows rad data in the us, Numbers in denver and to the east are exceptionally above average,


Can you show some of these numbers that are "exceptionally above average"? I've been monitoring it for about a week and have seen nothing of the sort. You're not comparing the EPA website to RadiationNetwork or the BlackCat map, right?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
reply to post by Wertwog
 

Getting a little off-topic here, but here's the current "plan" for Chernobyl ...
New Safe Confinement



If there is a risk of the nuclear materials melting through the core if not kept cool, how come the one at Chernobyl still has 95% of it and its been entombed....And as it blew up it wouldn't have any means of continuous cooling via pumps and hoses ect?




It has been estimated that up to 95% of the original radioactive inventory of reactor unit 4 still remains inside the ruins of the reactor building.


Ive been following this thread since page one and ive learned so much, although i wish it was under better circumstances


wiki



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


The reactor core holds the fuel rods apart physically. The neutrons being liberated, and which cause the fission of the fuel, like all radiant enery follows the inverse square law.

Quite small physical distances can therefore attenuate the energy considerably.

In a moltern pool, however, there is no slowing of the chain reaction. It is in the pool that a criticality event can happen. It all depends on how much fuel, and how active it is.

Under Chernobyl, as I understand it, the compartmentalised rooms into which the pool leaked, reduced the mass of the total pool by dividing it up.

I believe that the sub surface under the Japanese reactors is similarly divided to reduce the danger in a meltdown situation.

If they had exceeded the original designed fuel level of enrichment, then it is also possible that the designed-in safety's are insufficient to prevent criticality.

You must remember that a standard PIT (Plutonium Initiation Trigger) in an A-bomb only contains about 3kg of Pu239 and here we are talking about much more mass (but hopefully at much lower purity).

edit on 21/3/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by monica86
 


if i had to take a stab at it its the intact roof of the building next to the plant thats dammaged with either hot fallout _javascript:icon('
')
so thats problay to be expected that it would be hot being right next to the emmission source?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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Just saw this "flash" on Kyodo news ...

NEWS ADVISORY: External power source connected to No. 1 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi plant (08:59)

Sorry, it's a Java embed, I don't see how to link to it directly.



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