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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
reply to post by monica86
 

Here's another quote from that story ...

"Japanese people are not the type of people who rise up and stage a coup d'etat," he says. "They just keep quiet and die. People in my town just outside the exclusion zone are being told to stay inside. That doesn't make sense. How many people do they want to kill?"




When the WTC towers came down, people evacuating the building down the stairs in an orderly fashion were told everything was okay and to go back to work. And some did.

We are a very strange animal.




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:45 PM
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This is my last post on this thread, after a week and a half, and pages and pages of speculation and sensationalism, I think it boils down to we dunno what is going to happen in Japan, and in addition I wanna see some Geiger counters on our produce here in the USA, one other reason why maybe this damn story is getting kicked under the rug.

In conclusion, I hope and pray things get better for Japan, I mean I really pray, I hope life is easier for the children in Japan, I pray they do not inherit a nuclear waste land, I hope and pray the wise of Japan, get the nuclear reactors under control.. I truly pray.. I am tired of hearing doom and gloom in Japan, its time for the right to come into this story, lets focus on doing what we need to do. WE have the potential to overcome this challenge, lets get some stories of overcoming this now..

I pray for Japan..
edit on 21-3-2011 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


It appears Graphite melts at about 4705K, and it is combustible. I will keep looking to see if there is a massive volume change like most things when they go from solid or liquid to gas phase. I can't imagine it being a good thing if all that graphite decided to change phases and ignite. Maybe this is the reason for the herculean efforts to keep cooling the reactor even if the breach is imminent? Maybe they are cooling the graphite?

Basic Graphite MSDS
edit on 21-3-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)


ETA: changed the melting point temperature after further research.

Better Source

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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Hugues de Payens
 


After the quake and tsunami they claimed for some time that they were pumping sea water through both systems until they ran out of battery power... During that time they were trying to get the damaged generators working.

When the batteries died, they had to find other ways to get water in.

At this point, any water circulation through either or both systems is needed, regardless of contamination issues.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Wertwog
 


If we had a squib explosion then it would be equivalent to the fallout from a small yeild A-bomb.

The Plutonium component would be very deadly as a condensed vapour.

Most fallout components are, fortunately, heavy and so don't remain in the atmosphere for long. It is unlikely that a radioactive plume would reach the United States due to the nature of fallout.

Where the fallout does fall, however, will be poisoned for a long time (nearly a century based on bomb tests & other accident data).





Thanks for the insight chr0naut. Can you explain to me if this can happen in the containment vessel or once the puddle has reached the floor outside the vessel? It appears that we are in a full meltdown senario at this point, can you advise us as to the chances of this 'squib' event occurring soon based on what you are seeing?

Also, if the spent fuel rods are left to reach criticality, are they likely to explode or puddle down to the floor are they in any risk of explosion?

I'm also concerned with so many reactors being in such close proximity what effect might we expect to see on these reactors should a 'squib' event occur at #3.

Thanks again for your input, and also Redneck, for clearheaded assessments at a time when it is natural for people to feel a little panicked for loved ones and our fellow humans trapped in this truly awful stituation.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Hugues de Payens
 
Good post!
I tried to touch on the primary/secondary loop concept much earlier in the thread when TEPCO started spraying the outside of the reactors in the idea of cooling the core. Not a very effective way to do it.

I'm under the impression (perhaps mistaken) that the external spraying is to cool down the structures so they can be (eventually) entered and inspected, if possible get power connected-up to the control-room and pumps; and also with some of that they are trying to get water into whatever may remain of the "cooling ponds" that had been built into the upper portion of those structures. I don't think it's to cool down the cores themselves/directly. Although, I think the media has confused that point (big surprise).



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade
 



I may be wrong, but it was not sea water they were pumping under battery power. It was the water already in the main coolant loop. There would be no need to introduce sea water until there was a loss of coolant from a breach in the system.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Thanks.........No it isn't. The water from a fire hose or helo can do no good unless it can constantly circulate around the core.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by EnhancedInterrogator
 



It very well may be one of the goals of spraying the water is to cool down the buildings. Guess I was thinking more along the radiological lines. The dose rate around the reactor itself may be prohibitive for personnel entry. If one could enter, it would more than likely be under strict stay times.

My point was that cooling the core inside the vessel itself could not be accomplished by spraying water on it.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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More info for the graphite bowl....

If we knew the mass of the bowl, we could calculate the heat needed to melt it.
Specific heat capacity (J/kg.K) 710-830


Nuclear IndustryHigh purity electrographite is used in large amounts for the production of moderator rods and reflector components in nuclear reactors. Their suitability arises from their low absorption of neutrons, high thermal conductivity and their high strength at temperature.

Verification that it is used in Nuclear capacities.

Another source

I still haven't found anything about a flashpoint or ignition point, it is probably such a high temperature that doesn't need to be published in common applications.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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I think it is worth mentioning in any discussion of entombment:

It took 400,000 people to build the sarcophagus around Chernobyl. It was supposed to last for 50 years and it's only been 25 and needs replacing. Thousands became ill and some died building it. You have to wait until the site is cool enough not to burn through the concrete.

Also consider....

Whatever we do has to be:

1. Seismically indestructible
2. Tsunami proof
3. Typhoon proof
4. Terrorist proof
5. Won't allow the cores to enter the water through the ground
6. Proves containment for the radiation
7. Will not decay due to heat or radiation for a reasonable period of time

The site is also physically much bigger than Chernobyl.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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I’ve been wanting to post this for a couple days, now seems like a good time. I’m going to try to keep it brief for clarity sake and I hope others with more experience in this area will add their knowledge.

What we have been observing in Japan since the first days is classic disaster management, more particularly the management of information. The primary goal is to avoid widespread public panic and losing control of the situation which could lead to significant loss of life as well as property. The secondary unstated goal is to lay down a pattern of decisions, actions and information dissemination to give politicians, government officials and business executives defensible positions in the inquiries, accusations and legal challenges that inevitable follow such disasters. Now I’m not saying these are great, maybe not even good. They don’t have to be, they just have to create enough plausible deniability to create doubt about the incompetence and bad decisions by the PTB. Saying you were acting in the best interests of the people (by avoiding mass panic) and being able to back it up with a series of unconnected decisions, events and the release of limited facts can be a powerful ally for them.

In controlling public opinion and staying ahead of the news cycle they employ these maneuvers.

1. Misstate the severity of the situation. If on a scale of one to ten you believe the situation to be a seven and would cause panic, officially declare it a 4 or 5 and defend that position. Adjustments can be made later if necessary in incremental steps.

2. Confuse the public with contradictory information. Portray critics as fear mongers or crackpots.

4. Use misdirection by disseminating either outright false information or on the other hand attractive yet unimportant scenarios while occasionally slipping in pertinent facts among the flotsam and jetsam. Exploit emotions by keeping the public focused on hopeful possibilities as opposed to shocking realities, even if unrealistic.

3. If the critical nature of the situation doesn’t decrease or in fact increases, acclimate the public to accepting increasing levels of a status quo with a series of small, stepped up disaster disclosures as opposed to large jumps which in themselves could create a panic. If done properly, one can take the public from believing in a relatively uneventful scenario to acceptance of a catastrophic incident. More on this later.

NOTE: Controlling and manipulating facts, news and disclosures so the public accepts increasing levels of a critical situation without panic is called acclimating. Begin with an acceptable level of desperation (like a level 4 nuclear incident) and slowly increment disclosures of severity as people are more able to absorb numerous small changes rather than a few large ones without freaking out.

I understand the reasons behind protecting against widespread panic. On the other hand I think people should be given the facts to make their own decisions about their lives without those decisions being made for them by gubmints, politicians and business executives whose loyalty may lie with avoiding disgrace, prison, party destruction or stock price declines than with the interests of the people.

Bottom Line - All the above entities will lie to us, expect it. What we have to do is navigate the flotsam and jetsam of media disinformation to find the hidden nuggets of real truth so we can form opinions, make decisions and formulate strategies that insure the integrity of our own lives and that of our families and close communities.

From here on out the issue isn’t getting angry about the fog they create, it’s beyond that, but more importantly what truth can we divine from the shatstorm of misinformation, misdirection and lies?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
It appears Graphite melts at about 4705K, and it is combustible.


It appears so yes... Graphite is a form of carbon, just as is diamond. Ever hear of carbon arc lamps? Old lighthouses had them. Take two carbon rods, say from the inside of an old D cell battery, hook up simple 110v house current, touch the rods together and you get a bright carbon arc flame, intensely bright. Thos little sparks when you grind metal are also carbon sparks.

In other words carbon 9and graphite0 ignites easily


The mineral graphite (pronounced /ˈgræfaɪt/) is one of the allotropes of carbon. It was named by Abraham Gottlob Werner in 1789 from the Ancient Greek γράφω (graphō), "to draw/write", for its use in pencils, where it is commonly called lead (not to be confused with the metallic element lead). Unlike diamond (another carbon allotrope), graphite is an electrical conductor, a semimetal. It is, consequently, useful in such applications as arc lamp electrodes. Graphite is the most stable form of carbon under standard conditions.


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Hugues de Payens
 


They built the plant close to the ocean so in an emergency they could do this... There is only one way to get sea water into the reactor core, and that is through the closed system, which has emergency valves to let in sea water.. ALL nuclear reactors are either built by large bodies of water, or have MASSIVE cooling towers filled will millions of gallons for this reason... You kill the reactor when using anything but extremely purified water, If they had generators they could have continued cooling with the sea water and we would not even be discussing this issue now.

Going back in time...


Speaking on CNN's "State of the Union," James Acton of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said: "They started pumping sea water into the core of the first of the reactors. Now you only do that if you basically decided to write off the reactor anyway … "You're only going to do that if you're seriously worried about the possibility of significant core melting.

"There's both significant uncertainty about what's going on at the moment and significant uncertainty about the possible outcomes," he added.

Read more: www.upi.com...



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Thanks for that info! Based on the info you've provided i actually take this as slightly good news..

Edit: Although now from what Zorgon has presented, Hell, maybe not!:/ (in the event it were to ignite)
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edit on 21-3-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Another question I was just pondering as well, concerning any fallout elements. I noticed that when they had found increased levels of cesium and iodine from the sea water surrounding the plant, would that water on average contain the same amounts of radiation? Or would there be pockets of water that contained higher radioactivity.

They only took .5l to test for radioactivity and found an iodine-131 increase of 126.7 times 'above standard levels.', among increases of other isotopes. If they took deeper water, would heavier elements be found? Taking a bigger example, or from an area 15 - 20 yards away show a significant difference in concentration of those isotopes?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by monica86
 


God bless those heroic workers risking they're lives out there. That is what I call bravery in its highest form. I'm sick of hearing about Libya when the world's biggest crisis is in Japan by far. People are dieing now from lack of food and supplies and this cover-up continues to go on. It really just stinks. Too bad us average Joe's can't get reliable information in this world. After all we are all human and no one person is any better then another. Too bad human lives are meaningless to the powers that be. How could Libya get more air-time then Japan. It is all over OIL. It just goes to show that the powers that be care about they're money and power and that is all. FU to all you power-hungry A-holes and your crooked agendas, I hope you burn in hell.
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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Came home from work early today and tuned in NHK News... I saw TWO things that are very scary...

Officially posted radiation readings... taken 1 km from the plant



Officially posted radioactive material... taken from the ocean water 100 meters south of Fukushima



Iodine 131 126.7 times higher than normal
Cesium 134 24.9 times higher
Cesium 137 16.5 times higher
Cobalt 58 normal

No info on damage to sea life..

www.livestation.com...
edit on 21-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


This might be nit-picking, but the Chernobyl tomb was designed to last 20 years and has been left there for 25, past its expiration date. That's one of the big reasons to get it done, quickly.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


It was a graphite fire at Chernobyl that was a contributing cause for that disaster.

FYI



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