It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 271.htm
513
<< 268  269  270    272  273  274 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by butcherguy

The only reason that they don't know for certain what caused the smoke is that the can't go look at it.
They can't go look at it because there are lethal levels of radiation present. They can't monitor it remotely because some of their buildings have blown up, taking the sensors out.
I feel for them, but I feel more for the civilians that live in Japan, especially the ones that are looking for safe food to eat and water to drink after the EQ and tsunami.


When does ionizing radiation become lethal? Explain that and please source statements like the one I've underlined in the future



edit on 21-3-2011 by cripmeister because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:03 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


And if the electric lines (also under sea water from the tsunami) are corroded as you say, and they apply voltage, the load is increased the resistance in the electric supply lines will create heat, that heat could lead to fires and smoke, possibly igniting gases in the area... The pumps motors were not protected well enough either, and the field windings in the motors could be corroded also, reducing the power potential of the motors, and possibly prohibit them from working.

If this is the case, can they possibly get crews in to replace and repair in time?



edit on 21-3-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:13 AM
link   
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Nope. The only way to replace corroding windings/contacts is to either replace or rebuild the motor. The only way to do that is to have free access to the motor itself. And that means entry of personnel into the reactor building. Even ignoring the radiation levels, the amount of damage is so great it would be crazy to allow fire protection and rescue personnel in there, much less electricians.

Possibly military personnel could handle it, but there are probably hundreds of not thousands of motors in those buildings. Each one is going to take hours to replace, assuming they have replacement motors on site and have free access.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Mr redneck, could you please explain why they cant use generators. Im really confused on this



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:22 AM
link   
Open, honest Irish independent news.

Iitatemura city becquerels -

Residents near Fukushima warned off tap water

www.rte.ie/news/2011/0320/japan.html


Residents in a village near the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan have been told by authorities not to drink tap water after high levels of radioactive iodine were detected.

Japan's health ministry said 965 becquerels per kg of radioactive iodine was found in water which was sampled on Sunday in Iitatemura, which is 40km from the Fukushima No 1 plant.

Abnormal but much lower levels of radioactive iodine had already been found in the water supply in Tokyo and surrounding prefectures.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:23 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


This is only speculation on my part Redneck...

Days ago in this thread I relayed reports that they were moments away from supplying electricity to the site, and that at any moment the crisis would end..

I am wondering now, if they actually did that, and discovered these multiple issues you and I are discussing and have been secretly attempting to repair/replace since then... Secret so as not to cause panic, or to cover up the failure to get these pumps running.

There really is no way to know for sure, but this thing is really starting to smell like a cover up.

I hope they have been working on it, regardless and can get those pumps running... Millions of lives are dependent on them now.




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by butcherguy

The only reason that they don't know for certain what caused the smoke is that the can't go look at it.
They can't go look at it because there are lethal levels of radiation present. They can't monitor it remotely because some of their buildings have blown up, taking the sensors out.
I feel for them, but I feel more for the civilians that live in Japan, especially the ones that are looking for safe food to eat and water to drink after the EQ and tsunami.


When does ionizing radiation become lethal? Explain that and please source statements like the one I've underlined in the future



edit on 21-3-2011 by cripmeister because: (no reason given)
Maybe it's gamma?

Here is something from the New York Times:

While radiation levels at the plant have varied tremendously, Mr. Jaczko said that the peak levels reported there “would be lethal within a fairly short period of time.” He added that another spent fuel pool, at Reactor No. 3, might also be losing water and could soon be in the same condition.

Source: NYTimes

I am sorry, I think that it is getting to be obvious that the reason they are accomplishing very little at the site is because of the high radiation levels.

Now I have to go find the report so you can listen for yourself, but the helicopters dropping water, from up above....
Even with lead plates mounted underneath to shield them from your nonexistent radiation, can only spend 40 minutes a day there. Hmmmm, sounds safe to me.

Youtube
edit on 21-3-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:37 AM
link   
reply to post by iWokeUp

It's a little mathematical, but I'll try:

E=IR (Ohms law) is the formula that controls all electrical phenomena. Everything else is based on it. What it says is that if you have a certain voltage (E), the current (I) flowing through a circuit connected to that voltage is dependent on the resistance of the circuit. Increase the resistance and you decrease the current, and vice-versa.

Now, normally a connection has almost no resistance, so it by itself allows a huge amount of current to flow. All the resistance is in the load (motor, sensor, etc.), so that resistance controls the amount of current. If a connection gets corroded, its resistance increases and adds to the resistance created by the load, so less current flows through the whole circuit. Contacts in the motor do the same thing, and corroded windings also increase the resistance of the motor because they effectively have become smaller.

In short, the motor no longer needs 'X' voltage to run properly; now it needs 'X' + 'Y' voltage to run properly. That 'Y' value (the extra voltage needed to overcome the corrosion resistance) is not constant either... one connection may be more corroded than another, and some circuits may not be corroded at all. So we can't just raise the voltage to the system to allow for the corrosion without overpowering those less-corroded circuits.

The heat produced in any load (which includes corroded connections) is determined by multiplying the voltage across the load by the current going through the load. So instead of a connection having almost zero resistance and therefore seeing almost zero voltage and producing almost zero heat, it now develops a voltage across it due to the higher voltage caused by the current through it and its higher resistance. That means that it will now produce heat equal to the current of the entire circuit multiplied by the voltage across the corroded connection, which can be a lot of heat. Essentially, it is like connecting an electric heater in line with the motor.

So it doesn't matter whether the power is coming from the grid or from generators; the corrosion in the circuits is causing it to be used in the connections rather than in the loads.

(I'm about to get deluged with requests for clarification on this, I know. Oh, well, let 'er rip.)

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by Moonbeams771
I have just noticed that radiation appears to be rising at Shizoaka (80 - 106 gy/h within 5 mins), south of Tokyo.
Radiation Network
Hamaoka Plant


I don't see anything on that power-plant operator's (CHUBU Eletric Power) web-site about it (yet) ...

CHUBU Eletric Power's English Page
CHUBU's English Press-Release Page



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:41 AM
link   
Reading today that smoke is billowing from reactors 2 and 3 and that work was temporarily halted for danger.

Also the USS George Wa. is being moved out to sea (from base near Yokohama)...


"Our crisis is still going on. Our crisis is with the nuclear plants. We are doing everything we can to bring this to an end," Gov. Yuhei Sato of Fukushima prefecture,
Fox News


The U.S. Navy is moving the aircraft carrier USS George Washington from its port at Yokosuka Naval Base near Yokohama to avoid radiation exposure.
CNN


edit on 21-3-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by cripmeister
 
Oh I am sorry, I forgot to answer your first question.



When does ionizing radiation become lethal?


Here you go....


For example, the amount of energy in a lethal dose of ionizing radiation is roughly equal to the amount of thermal energy in a single sip of hot coffee.

Seems like so little.
hss.energy.gov


edit on 21-3-2011 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:44 AM
link   
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

I doubt it. Some of these motors have to be placed in by crane. They are not small enough for a couple of guys to grab them and carry them to where they are going. Plus, I highly doubt they even have replacements for everything on site. Some of these motors would have to be trucked in, and surely someone would have seen a crane lowering a motor or trucks bringing motors in. Even if there were a cover-up, that's a lot of work to cover.

And that's just the motors... what about all the junction boxes and panels and sensors?

Not to mention, the only people who could get in through all the rubble and still have enough expertise to replace motors would be military... and I doubt they could cover up a battalion of soldiers moving in for any reason.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:45 AM
link   
reply to post by iWokeUp
 


They could use purpose built generatiors which can supply enough power.

Off-the-shelf ones are just too small.

The plant does have generators, which were damaged by the tsunami.

They have since gotten some of them working again but the quake damage, explosion damage and the seawater corrosion means that some of that power is being "shorted" away somewhere and they dont have enough juice where it's needed.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:45 AM
link   
Greater levels of radioactive materials found due to rain


Far greater amounts of radioactive iodine and cesium were found in rain, dust and particles in the air in some areas over a 24-hour period from Sunday morning due to rainfall, the science ministry said Monday.



The nationwide survey showed both radioactive iodine and cesium were found in Ibaraki, Tochigi and Gunma prefectures, while iodine alone was found in Saitama, Chiba, Tokyo, Kanagawa, Niigata and Yamanashi.



Due to damage caused by the massive earthquake on March 11, research is currently impossible in some areas. Fukushima Prefecture is publishing data based on its own research.


I think I heard somewhere earlier that rainfall would help bring the radiation in the air back down onto the ground. Well, atleast they said this.


''Considering the results of a separate test, radioactive materials in the air and drinking water are confined to levels that would not affect health,'' an official of the Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology said. ''The impact on agricultural crops needs to be examined mainly by the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry.''


Not sure if I undserstand that...

Well atleast they increased the amount of radiation needed for decontamination!!!!!! I feel safer already! From 6,000 "counts" all the way up to 100,000 counts!!!


A radiation level of 100,000 counts per minute will be introduced as a new standard for decontamination, up from 6,000 counts per minute, the government said, adding that raising the bar will not endanger health.


Edit - Oh and this just in on Kyodo

english.kyodonews.jp...


NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 126.7 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant (01:35)



NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive cesium 24.8 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant (01:37)



NEWS ADVISORY: too early to assess contaminated seawater's impact on fishery product: TEPCO (01:38)

edit on 21-3-2011 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-3-2011 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Reading today that smoke is billowing from reactors 2 and 3 and that work was temporarily halted for danger.

Also the USS George Wa. is being moved out to sea (from base near Yokohama)...


"Our crisis is still going on. Our crisis is with the nuclear plants. We are doing everything we can to bring this to an end," Gov. Yuhei Sato of Fukushima prefecture,



The U.S. Navy is moving the aircraft carrier USS George Washington from its port at Yokosuka Naval Base near Yokohama to avoid radiation exposure.

edit on 21-3-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)
I heard that they were leaving to avoid the smoke exposure.

As I said before, this isn't a decision that the US govt came to lightly. It would seem to indicate that they believe that there is danger from radiation there.

A star for your post Lady Skadi.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:48 AM
link   
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I read somewhere a while back they had new pumps and such and were going to tie into the old system and bybass the old stuff. Don't remember where I read it but it makes more sense than trying to get stuff thats been under water working unless it was designed to get wet



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by butcherguy

Even with lead plates mounted underneath to shield them from your nonexistent radiation, can only spend 40 minutes a day there. Hmmmm, sounds safe to me.


I never claimed there was no radiation. You on the other hand claim that there a lethal levels of radiation near reactor #3. I'll spell it out for you - we don't know what the levels are near reactor #3. Ok?


edit on 21-3-2011 by cripmeister because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:49 AM
link   
reply to post by cripmeister

Acute radiation syndrome (ARS) also known as radiation poisoning, radiation sickness or radiation toxicity, is a constellation of health effects which occur within several months of exposure to high amounts of ionizing radiation. The term generally refers to acute problems rather than ones that develop after a prolonged period.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

That was easy...

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Unity_99
It (plutonium) builds up in the soil, silt, oceans, water, and never goes away. It relifts itself up and is carried on the weather even more, re-disembursement.

Yes, it does. The whole of the earth's surface is covered by (barely)measurable quantities of plutonium already, even the poles. Disbursement has more to do with particle size than weight of the element.


I don't think there is much of a reactor at 3, I suspect its a metled lava pool myself.

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

That doesn't look like anything but a mess of blackly smoking, twisted, burned metal now.
The smoke you see will be now spreading plutonium over Tokyo.


They admitted to their being PU in all the reactors. I provided a link and quote and someone said where does it say that. They assume the plutoinium in all the reactors meant it was in the containment units, or did they reason the fuel in the fuel rods. Since it means, the fuel in the fuel rods...........Short and simple, they're all mox. Thats why Japan has the biggest stache of mox other than Fance its supplier, enough for 60 nukes.

This is where you are getting confused.

MOX fuel is made with recycled weapons grade plutonium mixed in with uranium in the rods. As far as we know there is only one reactor in this complex, reactor 3, using MOX fuel. There were MOX assembles in the spent fuel pool in reactor 3 building as well.
TEPCO did want to use it in other reactors as well, but was prevented by resident's protests. ... - And people say protesting changes nothing.
Of course it's possible TEPCO secretively, illegally, used MOX fuel in the other reactors without telling us. I wouldn't put anything past those lying bastards, but we have no reason to believe they have done so.

Any fuel used in these reactors gradually accumulates some plutonium. However uranium fuel rods that have accumulated plutonium do not become MOX fuel. MOX does not just mean containing plutonium, MOX refers to a particular method of manufacturing rods from the plutonium from recycled nuclear weapons.



Japans attitude is: there is a dangerous level of radiation in their water and food, and only to wash with this water, not drink it (though I wonder what 126 million people are supposed to drink then).

Tea, of course. The Japanese all love their tea.
And there's always saki.


Seriously, most people will have no choice. There won't be safe water available for everyone, and most likely a lot of water will be bottled from contaminated supplies and sold as "pure" to cater for the demand. Of course, being Japan, they'll add lumps of gooey stuff and lots of sugar to it.


But there is no danger and everything is well and safe. Who would trust that?

I was 50 before I learned not to trust the government. And most people I know haven't even learned by my age.

Japanese media is keeping up their game-show circuses, keeping the populace distracted and manageable.
Ever watched a Japanese game show? I find them quite horrific. It would scarcely surprise me to see them busing contestants into the damaged nuclear plant and having them fight in the dark with glowing fuel rods, pretending they were in Star Wars.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:50 AM
link   
Well I am guessing, these guys have no idea what to do next, or are trying to think of what to do. A week and a half later, and we still have smoke, err steam, errr radiation smoke going up into the atmosphere, and its still not stopped, contained or err fixed.

Latest news, nuclear plant workers fleeing for their lives...


What if they don't know what to do now?

redneck what would you do to stop it? If you were in charge of making these reactors stop doing what they are doing?




top topics



 
513
<< 268  269  270    272  273  274 >>

log in

join