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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 259.htm
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posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Phage

Another difference is the distance between buildings. Units #1, #2, #, and 4 all sit like ducks in a row, while #5 and #6 sit off to the side.

The problems so far seem to my eye to have been each instituted by a smaller problem in another unit affecting those around it. I am convinced the breach in Unit #2 is a pretty direct consequence of the explosion in #3, for instance.

TheRedneck




posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by soundguy
 

Yeah, way off. ... and, when I went to that link, I got like 3 POP-UP's!
Stay away.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


I believe that the fracture could be anywhere on the vessel. Fractures occur in steel from a number of reasons including fatigue. Expansion and contraction of the steel makes the most vulnerable(weakest) part of the vessel the first point of failure. I would have to read my book to tell you what is the most vulnerable part of the vessel. I would guess at the places where the headers(pipes) are coming off of the vessel. The crack or breach does not necessarily have to be at the bottom of the vessel.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog

Not really, as long as any liberated hydrogen gas is allowed to vent. Again, nuclear material in a power plant simply cannot create a nuclear explosion, even using MOX fuel. The enrichment is far too low. What it can do is melt down into a runaway chain reaction, melting everything around it, potentially starting multiple spontaneous fires, and spew a lot of radiation in the process.

High-level radiation explosion can be far worse than a big boom.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by soundguy
 


LOL, you can do this at any time, anywhere. I saw a chef on a cooking segment do it the other day as a neat little 3-second trick.

Wive's tale.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by zorgon

Yeah, and I am not sure, but there wasn't any plutonium in Chernobyl was there (byproducts notwithstanding)? Plutonium has this nasty long half-life, during which time it just keeps decaying into equally nasty isotopes.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

I don't see why the explosions need be related to each other. Both of the reactor 2 and 3 were not being cooled, I think it is far more likely that is the proximate cause of the explosions rather than one causing the explosion in the other.

I know you're not saying that it isn't good news that 5 and 6 have been declared stabilized.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Wertwog

Not really, as long as any liberated hydrogen gas is allowed to vent. Again, nuclear material in a power plant simply cannot create a nuclear explosion, even using MOX fuel. The enrichment is far too low. What it can do is melt down into a runaway chain reaction, melting everything around it, potentially starting multiple spontaneous fires, and spew a lot of radiation in the process.

High-level radiation explosion can be far worse than a big boom.

TheRedneck


M'kay, ty. I read they were worried about that at Chernobyl but that must have been because they had no way to vent the pressure if it burned through the floor of the reactor into a pool of water. Are we now though not approaching a point though were enough of the decay heat has gone from the core that a full meltdown scenario is getting more unlikely? Or is there still enough heat in the rods to make this possible?



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by ethancoop
 


Guess I was considering the possibility of spent fuel being stored in the spent fuel pits at 5 and 6.

Even if the reactors are in cold shut down, or what ever the term used was, that still does not preclude the possibility of spent fuel needing to be cooled at those sites.

Why are they in cold shut down? Are they in the middle of refueling? Or, depending on power requirements, are they just not needed right now?

My point was, if the spent fuel pits have spent fuel in them. The requirement for needing water change and filtration is just as important, if not more so, as that in a reactor itself.

In fact, It's actually even more important due to the fact that the pool is not shielded or contained.

That's all I was saying



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Once radiation emission is stopped, then half-life based decay will begin to actually lower the radiation over time.
TheRedneck


NOVA documentary said Chernobyl needs a tomb that will last longer than the pyramids... 100,000 years


edit on 20-3-2011 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

I believe that is because of that huge puddle of sand and nuke fuel "lava" that is throughout the bottom of the reactor building, zorg; without re-watching it to catch the figures again, it is several tons of it, and very,very "hot"; so much so that it is impossible at this time to remove it, much less do anything to secure it in any manner.


seeker



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by zorgon

Yeah, and I am not sure, but there wasn't any plutonium in Chernobyl was there (byproducts notwithstanding)? Plutonium has this nasty long half-life, during which time it just keeps decaying into equally nasty isotopes.

TheRedneck

In the documentary, they did say there was plutonium in the lava glob, Red.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Phage

They don't need to be; I just think in at least some cases they were. The hydrogen explosion was reported earlier in this thread to have been felt 30km away, and it apparently set off the early earthquake warning system (horizontal wave detector) and the tsunami alert as well. Both of those were triggered by something around that time, and I don't remember a corresponding report of an aftershock.

Unit #2 started displaying warning signs very soon after the explosion in #3.

And yeah, the fact that #5 and #6 are OK is just a desperate attempt to show any good news they can scratch up, no matter how irrelevant. They could just as well said "Look! The ocean didn't boil dry! We're saved!"


TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Designer of plant predicts a meltdown and plant wasn't designed for worse-case scenarios because they were too expensive to implement. Well, so much for the "experts" doing their job and all their lovely assurances that these puke plants are safe, clean and healthy for us. Good on this guy for coming forward. He's one of the few puke experts who's willing to accept that they screwed up instead of spouting off how amazing puke power is.
SOURCE



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

Without proper cooling, 5 & 6 would have added to a very bad situation, putting more lives at risk.
While the progress on them doesn't directly affect the others (though it does mean less effort will have to be devoted to them), I'll take any good news I can.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog

At nine days? We're not even close. The chain reaction can run for a very long time. Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,200 years.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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For those living on the West Coast in or near California here is a list of all the past and present nucular plants.
What is disturbing is even though some may have been decommissioned, they still have the old fuel rods sitting on site in water on the coast in a tsunami zone. The other thing I found interesting is they use sea water to cool the reactors. This is why they like to build them on the beach. Think of all the money they save in pipe and related costs.
Link to all of California reactors, past and present

Having lived in San Clemente years ago, it always made me nervous living just a few miles from a nuclear plant.
Happily that is not the case today...



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Ok. I got out my IPT Guide to Blueprint Interpretation book by Grant E. Jacobs.

According to this book. The name plate would tell us everything we need to know about the vessel.

Unfortunately I am not seeing the weakest part of the vessel. But it does say a litlte about reinforcing pads.




Reinforcing pads: Reinforcing pads (re-pads) are used around manways and nozzles. Their primary function is to compensate for the loss of strength in the shell of the vessel after cutting an opening for a nozzle.

Definition of nozzle: Nozzles are openings in the vessel used for cleaning, inspection and access, attaching external piping to the vessel, or for joining vessel internals to exterior piping.


I put this in quotes because this is how it is worded in the book. This tells me that any cut made in the vessel for nozzles will be your weakest link.

By the way. I believe this is my 1,000 post. I hope it is a little informative about the pressure vessels.



edit on 20-3-2011 by liejunkie01 because: grammar



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Wertwog

At nine days? We're not even close. The chain reaction can run for a very long time. Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,200 years.

TheRedneck


I wasn't referring to the post-chain reaction scenario, but whether or not we can get there now. I thought that every day that goes by (because the reactors aren't running) they should be loosing decay heat. This lessens the prospect of neurotic activity and critical interactions correct? I know you're not working on much info, just what you can surmise, but how likely, would you guess, is the prospect of a critical mass forming now (if it hasn't already) given what you know of the leak in the pressure vessel and the inconsistent cooling?



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
Ok. I got out my IPT Guide to Blueprint Interpretation book by Grant E. Jacobs.

According to this book. The name plate would tell us everything we need to know about the vessel.

Unfortunately I am not seeing the weakest part of the vessel. But it does say a litlte about reinforcing pads.




Reinforcing pads: Reinforcing pads (re-pads) are used around manways and nozzles. Their primary function is to compensate for the loss of strength in the shell of the vessel after cutting an opening for a nozzle.

Definition of nozzle: Nozzles are openings in the vessel used for cleaning, inspection and access, attaching external piping to the vessel, or for joining vessel internals to exterior piping.


I put this in quotes because this is how it is worded in the book. This tells me that any cut made in the vessel for nozzles will be your weakest link.

By the way. I believe this is my 1,000 post. I hope it is a little informative about the pressure vessels.



edit on 20-3-2011 by liejunkie01 because: grammar


Would the nozzles be at the top or bottom of the pressure vessel do you think?



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator
This is from Jiji News, from about 3 hours ago ...

[JiJi News] Tanks to Remove Debris at Quake-Hit Japan Nuke Plant

Tokyo, March 20 (Jiji Press)--Japan's Defense Ministry on Sunday ordered the Ground Self-Defense Force to send two tanks to the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant to remove debris at the quake-hit plant to facilitate work to prevent a radiation disaster.
The Type 74 battle tanks and other relief vehicles left a GSDF garrison in Gotenba, Shizuoka Prefecture, central Japan, in the evening and will arrive in the northeastern prefecture of Fukushima early Monday morning, the ministry said.
As soon as they receive a request for action, the large blade-attached tanks will enter the radiation-exposed plant of Tokyo Electric Power Co. to clear debris from roads for vehicles to spray water to cool nuclear reactors whose safety systems were battered by the 9.0-magnitude quake and subsequent massive tsunami on March 11.
It is very unusual for battle tanks to join disaster relief operations. But the ministry decided on the voluntary deployment because tanks have high radiation protection capabilities and their mobility is also high, it said.
(2011/03/21-01:48)




I saw this blurb about the tanks. Funny, I thought they have been spraying water for several days, what roads have those trucks been using?




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