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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Wertwog

Originally posted by okiecowboy
reply to post by Wertwog
 


I just emailed a copy of that to the Telegraph.co.uk and asked them
what they think it might be.


Interesting huh? If they are fuel rods scattered around like that then... would they be able to achieve criticality?


Just wondered if we've heard anything yet?




posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Phage and post by TheRedneck
 


Thanks gentlemen,

I would presume what we need is a standardized dosimeter readings for key cities/regions, but I have yet to find that data for the U.S.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 





Just wondered if we've heard anything yet?


No reply as of yet..



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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WOW the media, has eclipsed Japan, with Libya..

I am betting the Japanese government and the Japanese power company is please.

It almost appears like a distraction..

Ironically the media MSM, has been recycling the same tid bits of information for the past 12 hours, with talking heads talking like neutered and spade corp goons..




Oh well I am going to comb thru the thread and see what I can find.. Anyone else hear that they found radiation in the tokyo tap water? Also in milk and live stock on a farm?


here is a link to that story, sorry mods..

www.thedailystar.net...

It must really be miserable over there..
edit on 19-3-2011 by Bicent76 because: to add link



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Bicent76

Well, they can't get to the plant because of the radiation, so they are having to rely on what they are told... which is, "Everything is fine, we're all fine, how are you?"

Live report just said they have been able to cool down some buildings, but not clear about the reactors inside.

I am wondering about the milk contamination... that would have to go into the water supply, be absorbed by the plants, and then eaten, digested, and excreted by the cattle. Has there been enough time for all that to occur? And when during this disaster would that radiation have been released to make it this far by now?

Or could it have contaminated the water supply for the cows?

Phage?

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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I'll post yesterdays screenshot that was lowish readings, but 90 was quite high for Colorado, being at a higher altitude. I've not seen them go higher yet, but this shows Vancouver is on the map and at 18, and it was 15 just a moment ago, but kootney area on black cat map coincided and they're not usually far off.



From this site which just took Vancouver off because I showed they lined up
www.radiationnetwork.com...

Its for real, and they're really lying. All the people walking around in paradigm bubbles with their babies in carriages, should be told.

We're back, online. Cool. Vancouver is up.

Question is, am I going to trust their readings.
edit on 19-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


Can you show corresponding data on space radiation levels and sunspot activity to prove that the state which is higher than most in the US isn't just being affected by space-based radiation? I assume you've accounted for all of this, of course. I'd like to see the data.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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I called and talked to the guys who run the Radiation Network when we where all getting the 404 error messages.......he explained what was going on .......I give them a
........

From Radiation Networks Website.....


Stations disappeared - Why did the Monitoring Stations in NM and TX disappear, you ask? It's like the TV in your family room - it's always there, but where some people watch TV all day long, others turn it off for awhile. We can't control that - running a radiation Monitoring Station on our Network is as voluntary as watching TV - nothing sinister about it.

High readings in CO - The Radiation levels on the stations in Colorado are higher on average than the others because some are at elevations as high as 8,000 to 9,000 feet, where there is less atmospheric shielding from the cosmic rays that make up most of what we call the background radiation count. As an example, I have taken a Geiger Counter on a passenger plane flight and recorded readings up to 800 CPM at 40,000 feet! So those high readings are quite normal for certain Colorado stations.

Units of Measurement - It is confusing - Rems, Rads, Roentgens, Sieverts, CPM, mili, micro... In the US, the standard unit to quantify dosage is the Roentgen, or more particularly, usually milli-Roentgens per hour, abbreviated as mR/hr, or micro-Roentgens per hour, written as uR/hr.

Meanwhile, in Japan and most other countries, the common unit is the Sievert, and in practice usually micro-Sieverts per hour, written as uSv/hr. It is easy to convert - 1 mR/hr equates to 10 uSv/hr, so a reading out of Japan of 500 uSv/hr would equal 50 mR/hr - just divide by 10. Some people use the term Rads or Rems as substitutes for Roentgens, and for all intents and purposes, they are interchangeable, although not scientifically correct.

A cautionary note - because of the large array of radiation units, when stating a reading, it is meaningless, dangerous, and irresponsible to give just the number - always follow that number with the corresponding unit of measurement - not doing so breeds wild rumors.

But the Radiation Map uses CPM - why? Well, because CPM, or Counts per Minute, corresponds directly to the output of the compatible Geiger Counters, and CPM levels are also user-friendly integral numbers. Problem is, some Geiger counters, particularly those that use the "pancake" Geiger-Mueller tubes, are more efficient than others and detect a higher count rate than standard tubed models - up to 3 times, which also explains why some stations on the Map show higher levels than others. We are going to correct that in future software versions, and adopt the uR/hr standard. But the CPM unit serves us for now, and as it turns out, the CPM readings for standard tubed Geiger counters does in fact equate exactly to the same readings in uR/hr.

Accuracy of Readings - While most visitors to the Radiation Network welcome the service, a few have questioned the accuracy and legitimacy of the radiation readings. That healthy skepticism is a good thing, especially given the sensitive nature of this subject matter. I can only say that we don't have an agenda, other than the collection and reporting of Radiation levels taken on a scientific basis. Since our network is of a server/client nature, we exercise some control over the issuance of Monitoring Station participation in the first place, and retain the ability to shut down any station that abuses its license. Having said that, I am very pleased with, and proud of the makeup of our Monitoring Stations. These are largely just individuals like you and me who are concerned and aware, diligent in recording readings, and interestingly, many of them are ham radio operators at the same time.

edit on 19-3-2011 by Cloudsinthesky because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-3-2011 by Cloudsinthesky because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

Direct contamination of food is possible of course. Any exposed foodstuffs could receive fallout.

But I agree that for milk contamination to occur the fallout would have to go through the chain; fallout to soil, soil to feed, feed to animal.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I do know...cows that eat onions in the morning..the milk will taste it by the evening..so it works pretty fast...

and cows drink ALOT of water...so the amounts in the cows could get up there pretty fast due to volume alone..if drinking tainted water



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by okiecowboy
 


This is my thought. Exposed toughs, streams, ponds, etc. When I'm breastfeeding, it can be affected in hours by whatever I eat.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99

We're back, online. Cool. Vancouver is up.

Question is, am I going to trust their readings.
edit on 19-3-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)


Probably not. Because they don't fit your paradigm.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


Ya, Redneck said the levels would be so low in Vancouver (I'm outside but close enough) not to worry so I didn't bug out a couple of days ago when I was sort of panicky. I live right below the Cascades mountain range on the west side - all of our air kind of funnels across to this spot. I've probably caught a small dose so far but from what I understand is unless there is a large event that ejects particulates high into the atmosphere the readings will be too low to worry about (and that is from the folks here, not from MSM). I do worry about the long term constant puking out of this stuff. One dose won't hurt, but sustained over time? Who knows. I could drive to Maryland and stay with ppl I know, but this is going to take weeks. It would mean, on the basis of little to no information, losing my home and my job. These decisions must be even more horrible for the folks in Japan! Yikes.

Found this sort of useful... Jetstream model
edit on 19-3-2011 by Wertwog because: spelling mistake


Oh, and no one here is the least bit concerned. Life as normal and none of my friends or co-workers are concerned at all about the accident. Japan, yes, they feel sorry and worried for the people, but for their own safety? No.
edit on 19-3-2011 by Wertwog because: another idea added



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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This is a post in another thread discussing earthquakes along another fault line than the one in which the 9.0 occurred. There is a very relevant point made in regards to the nuclear situation and the address made by the Emperor. I do not think that this point has been raised here, although I will admit to only bein able to go back 5 or so pages each time I return to this thread from life so I may have missed it, apologies if this is the case.



Originally posted by JustMike

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
They are making their way closer and closer to that southern subduction zone. I just can't understand how they are not sounding the alarm on this, in context to the massive activity north.

Sorry, I missed responding to this in my other post but frankly the point you've raised is so crucial that it needs a separate reply anyway.

I guess we have to take into account the fact that Japanese people are very used to earthquakes. It's simply part of their history and for centuries, it even affected their culture in terms of architecture and medicine. Houses were built with thin, shoji walls because in a quake, there was less chance of people being injured when their homes collapsed. It also made it possible to rebuild houses within a matter of days. Likewise, they developed remarkably effective medical treatments for burns -- as burns were common in quakes -- and also had great skill with setting broken bones, all of this long before Europeans arrived there in the latter part of the 16th century.

So much of their culture is still based around the philosophy that although they live in the Land where the Gods came down to earth, sometimes the earth will shake and the harbor waves (tsunami) will come. Whoever will be taken, will be taken. Shikata ga nai... (Nothing can be done about it...) It's something like que sera sera. Fatalistic to a degree, but not negative. They have millennia of culture that is based upon accepting what happens, dealing with its consequences, then moving on. It's part of their concept of maintaining dignity in the face of adversity.

This is one reason why it's very difficult for TV journalists in Japan to interview people who have suffered tragedy. If a person is suffering terrible grief, the Japanese cultural standard is that you do not go and comfort that person. This will only make them feel worse, because their suffering is private and in most cases, they vastly prefer to be alone or only with very close family or friends. To show their suffering on TV is pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable to the Japanese people...

The same goes for openly stating what may even be patently obvious. Even if it is something very negative -- like discussing the possible strong links between current quake activity and what this may portend -- the tendency is to edge around it, to make statements that hint at it but where the listeners need to read between the lines. So, when the spokseperson for JMA says there is no connection between what happened last Friday and recent events on land near Shizuoka, the very fact that he said this is something to take note of. Sure, he was responding to a direct question, but that question should not even have been asked in such a direct way. So, he gives a direct answer, and that is so totally out of the norm that Japanese ears prick up and they say, "A-haaa!" and they know immediately that the Honorable Scientist has just told them to beware.

When I made my comments the other day on this subject, I was hoping that what I said would be understood for what it was: the western reaction. The fact of the matter is, though, that the JMA spokesperson made it absolutely clear to the Japanese people, and this is what he meant when you read between the lines: "I am saying categorically that there is no connection. You all know that we never make such blunt and direct statements about such grave matters. So you know I am saying much more."

So, after my long answer (and my apologies for it, TA!), my short answer is this: the Japanese people know full well that they have been given a very clear warning by their Honorable Scientist from the most highly respected Japan Meteorological Agency. They were given similar warnings by those who have been battling the problems at the nuclear power stations. When one at first said that "the cooling is not proceeding as planned", that was a HUGE warning.

In Japan, the official answer is almost never as plain and simple as it appears on the surface. We always need to look below the surface and consider all the circumstances, as well as the position the person has in society.

To continue:

When the revered Emperor of Japan appeared on TV live and made a speech, this was the first time such a thing had ever happened in Japan. The Emperor does not give live speeches on TV.

The fact that He did is very, very telling indeed. He told the Japanese people that He is praying for them. But it is known that He always prays for them and for His nation. The fact that He said this is incredibly important: the Emperor was giving a warning. He is obviously kept well informed -- by people who do not dare to make false statements to Him. The fact that the most revered Emperor appeared live on TV is more significant than anything else that has been announced by anyone.

Let me please repeat this as it's very important:
The Emperor of the Land of the Rising Sun has never made a live speech to the Japanese people on TV before. His statements are always recorded and then released later. When I learned that He had done this, I thought: "Ohhh myyy God..." because just the fact that He did this was so unbelievable.

The fact that He went on TV live was to indicate to the people of His nation that the subject of His speech was so urgent that not even He could delay His statement. The Emperor never hurries anything. It is not dignified to hurry.

The Emperor (relative to what is traditional for Himself) hurried -- and if you know anything of the Japanese and their reverence for Him, that is just absolutely mind-blowing.

And I can guarantee to you all that the people of His nation, well versed as they are in reading between the lines, immediately understood why their Emperor had taken this unprecedented step. They do not ignore statements from their revered Emperor. Some would have His speech memorized word-for-word. All of them appreciate the import of His extraordinary action in breaking from tradition, because tradition is everything.

They have been warned!

Some have asked, "If there is such danger in Tokyo and its regions, why has the Emperor not left for a distant place?"

The answer is simple: the Emperor will do whatever He decides to do. In any case, the Emperor has Family. He has an Heir, and if his Heir and the Heir's family choose (on the Emperor's polite suggestion) to go on a visit to a distant city to observe perhaps some early blossoms, or to pay a visit to a particular holy shrine, then they will go. No-one will openly question their motives, but everyone will get the message loud and clear.

This is Japan, and this is the way things are done.

Mike

edit on 17/3/11 by JustMike because: extra notes


Page here

Mike has another response later in that same thread with a bit more to add but his main post has the crucial point regarding the unprecedented live speech of the Emperor.
edit on 19-3-2011 by jadedANDcynical because: Typos



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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1841: The cloud plume from Fukushima has now reached the western Atlantic, but radioactivity is likely to be "extremely low" with no impact on health or the environment, France's Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN), according to the AFP news agency.

I don't like how they say likely, what does that really mean they don't know.

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 

This post by kdog1982 has a graph of the released data with a key showing the locations of the various monitoring points. Looks reliable on its face. It seemed to me in my earlier post consistent with the general view of TheRedneck and others (updraft reducing readings at more distant monitoring points, etc.) but did show consistently higher readings at the main building, the one closer monitoring point (0.5 km). These readings would seem to suggest that the levels at the reactors are consistently elevated, though with peaks and valleys as events happen.

The graph correlates the readings with these events and locations of monitoring points. It looks like it might clarify some of the questions TheRedneck raised regarding the lastest TEPCO on plant status?



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


I found this amazingly informative. We have been missing the subtle details of the communicative styles of the Japanese. When I see the picks of Japanese suffering and crying on CNN I have felt so embarrassed. It is very much an intrusion for them to be shown this way, but in our culture we seem to want to see pain and suffering to know it is there. Thanks so much for this post!



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 


Thanks are deserved by JustMike much more than myself. All i did was hopefull expose this idea to an audience who might not have known it existed.

Once I read that post and the follow up to it I began to look at all of the previous reports as well as subsequent ones and started filtering them throguh that lens and I must say that there is quite a difference in how we in the west perceive things and how it is in Japan.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by lubilou
1841: The cloud plume from Fukushima has now reached the western Atlantic, but radioactivity is likely to be "extremely low" with no impact on health or the environment, France's Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN), according to the AFP news agency.

I don't like how they say likely, what does that really mean they don't know.

www.bbc.co.uk...


Do we know where exactly in the western atlantic the radiation was detected? Out to sea like Cuba or the Bahamas? Or on shore like Florida?



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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2:24 p.m. Saturday, 3:34 a.m. Sunday in Tokyo: Six members of the emergency crew at the plant have been exposed to more than 100 millisieverts of radiation per hour, the equivalent of getting 10 chest x-rays per hour, plant owner Tokyo Electric Power Company said. The utility said the workers were exposed when trying to restore electricity to the stricken reactors in hopes of using the cooling systems again.


CNN
edit on 19-3-2011 by 00nunya00 because: exnews quoting instead of regular ex?



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