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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
apparently up again. Los Vegas is 165? Thats quite high.


Do you have a comparison over the last say month to see what is normal?

We glow a lot down here, it's why they call us the city of lights. Las Vegas felt the ground shake from those 900 plus bombs and we survived that radiation too




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Wow, now this is really interesting, thank you! It's funny, because this bottom-of-the-reactor graphite wasn't even what I was remembering, but it's definitely in the Mark-1 somewhere! (I think the pic I was remembering was in the earthquake thread, so I will go back and skim through that one tonight---didn't find the pic in the first 75 pages of this thread, so it must be in the other one I was trying to keep up with initially, LOL)

SO: this specific use of graphite must be a *good* idea in this case, right? For some reason I'm not understanding? Hopefully? And not just because it stops nuclear reactions like the graphite rods at Chernobyl? It just seems that if you're to the point of meltdown, and you want to stop that meltdown from getting worse, you don't put a flammable material in there.....right?

I hope there's something I'm not getting.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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what are they buying time for exactly? they should be entombing the reactors now. they will not heal themselves, they will not work again. the longer they wait the more critical the situation will become



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99 I just finished reading one about the number of spent fuel rods contained in those pools, of course this was possibly underplaying the amount even, and the spent fuel rods were considered more radiactive hazzard than the rods themselves it was over 1800. I'm going to find that link. Obviously we're getting that cloud here.


Was posted several times in this thread... there are over 600,000 spent fuel rods in that complex

Spent fuel Rod fire could be worse than Chernobyl, by okiecowboy
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by autopat51
 


From my understanding, they need to cool the reactors more before emtombment becomes a viable option. I think trying to entomb the reactors right now would result in the entombment material simply melting away.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by liejunkie01
This thread moves way to fast and I feel that this information could shed new light on what we have all been looking for..... The truth.


Tell me about it
So what do you see changed besides the shadows? NHK has been off line since I came home so not getting any updates



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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That EPA "radiation map" link ( cdxnode64.epa.gov... )has been sourced in the last few pages for levels, but I can't find on that page where anyone is getting numbers of current levels. All I see is the status of whether the detectors are online or not. Can someone instruct me exactly where to look on that page or what to click to get a number of a radiation level?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Click on the location on the map, and you will have access to the data for that location.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Unity_99 I just finished reading one about the number of spent fuel rods contained in those pools, of course this was possibly underplaying the amount even, and the spent fuel rods were considered more radiactive hazzard than the rods themselves it was over 1800. I'm going to find that link. Obviously we're getting that cloud here.


Was posted several times in this thread... there are over 600,000 spent fuel rods in that complex

Spent fuel Rod fire could be worse than Chernobyl, by okiecowboy
www.abovetopsecret.com...


600,000 I believe is the theoretical maximum that can be held there. Still, even if they just have say 300,000 rods it's still not pretty.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by EnhancedInterrogator

Originally posted by TheIsraelite777
Remember guys, the Illuminati made this happen. Either by HAARP or something else. It's them alright though. They have been responsible from everything to WW1-WW2 to 9/11

I think you're looking for this thread.


How is that an opinion. Everyone knows good and well the Illuminati are responsible for this.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by premierepastimes
 


Ah, THANK YOU! I wasn't being patient enough and noticing that info was popping up to the right, and not just the Google map location name. Awesome, this beats the pants off RadiationNetwork!



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by dvrt10
 


if thats their excuse its very lame.. remember chernobyl? that was one hot reactor!!!!!!!!!
sec line



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by nghtshd

It wasn't meant to be scientifically accurate as much as it was meant to illustrate half-lives and how radioactive half-lives differ from burning a conventional fuel. Yes, your coin-flipping analogy is more accurate, but doesn't illustrate my point as well to a layman.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by autopat51
 


I could be wrong ... maybe someone could correct me. I think someone also mentioned that entombment would be the absolute last resort and, if performed, would result in the area being uninhabitable for a long time.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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god i love the japanese..their sense of of honor and their ability to suffer while never showing pain is quite admirable. they are trying to save face in the eyes of the world and in my eyes they are remarkable, but it is time...its time now to bury the dragons before the fire gets to hot and more have to die. just an opinion..ty



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by dvrt10
 


It must be a last resort. A lot of people like to point to Chernobyl like it is some kind of success story in the end. It's not. It is still a major problem that has to be continually dealt with.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by zorgon

Just wanted to point out one flaw in that article:

The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world. The core is then placed in the "pressure vessels". That is the pressure cooker we talked about before.


The whole reason zirconium is used is that it does NOT contain the neutron emissions. Quick reference from Wiki:

An important use of zirconium is for nuclear reactor fuel cladding (in the form of zircaloys) because of its low neutron-capture cross-section and resistance to corrosion.


One strike doesn't say everything in there is wrong, of course, but it does make me pull back a bit on it.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 



I won't make a joke about those crazy Frenchmen..

Please don't... since I'm one of them.


San Francisco tunnels have never been tested for earthquakes....

Corroding Muni tunnels have never been seismically tested

While San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency officials say other inspections found the 82-year-old Sunset Tunnel and the 94-year-old Twin Peaks Tunnel “in good serviceable condition,” outside engineers question the wisdom of failing to inspect them for earthquake safety, particularly considering the defects that have been found.


Kinda crazy story... some guy was living in Indonesia when the tsunami happened... then he moved to Japan... then he got struck by the tsunami again... The guy survived 2 tsunamis... hopefully he doesn't move to California next.

Man 'survives Aceh and Japan tsunamis'

An Indonesian man says he has escaped both the 2004 tsunami in Aceh and last week's deadly wall of water in Japan.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Ok
I need the wisdom of some of the great minds in this thread to help me out with my simple understanding of things

Reported Radiation levels boondoggle

regarding the recent "Rotation out" of some of the workers


Workers are being ordered to leave the plant, located 135 miles (220 kilometers) north of Tokyo, before radiation dosages reach the maximum permissible level, said a spokesman yesterday for the utility who declined to give his name.


notice it says Before workers Reach the maximum permissible level

ok what is that level..


The cumulative maximum level for nuclear workers was increased to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts by Japan’s health ministry on March 15


Ok ..got it..was raised to 250 millisieverts

doesn't sound to bad..


Monitors have shown large radiation numbers in some places,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said at a briefing today. Overall, levels aren’t high enough to be harmful, he said.


ok..got it..not high enough to be harmful..


One plant worker was exposed to 106.3 millisieverts, Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said in a website posting today.


Ok..that's alot but still under the max


Operators evacuated a central control room for about 45 minutes on March 16 amid concerns that a containment vessel at the plant’s reactor No. 3 was damaged and leaking radiation, the agency said. Two employees who were wearing full-face masks in the main control room complained of discomfort and were taken to the plant’s industrial doctor, according to the report


hmmm..well if they felt any effects at all it would have to be over that 250 millisievert mark wouldn't it?..because they have deemed that level is safe.

so why evacuate?


“The fact they were evacuated means that they were getting very high surges of doses that were just too high to permit them to keep working,” said Evan Douple, associate chief of research at the Radiation Effects Research Foundation in Hiroshima.


ohh ok..so that must be getting up there then...


They are pulling the workers back if they think there is going to be a spike, which is a sensible precaution,” said Thomas, who studied the aftermath of the 1986 nuclear disaster at Chernobyl, Ukraine. “It doesn’t mean that anything nasty would happen to them if they were still there. If you can avoid getting a radiation dose, you avoid it.”


ooook nothing nasty tho..

(all above taken from source

now back to that poor guy they are talking about that got that dose....is he ok?


One worker: 106.3 mSv. At the level of exposure no internal exposure and medical treatment was not required.


good... no treatment required...

so now we know that no treatment is required at 106.3 millisievert

anyone been sent to the hospital over all this?


5 members of Self-Defence Force who worked for water supply in Fukushima Dai-ichi NPS were exposed. After the work (March 12th), 30,000 cpm was counted by the measurement at Off site Centre.The counts after decontamination were between 5,000 and 10,000 cpm. One
member was transferred to National Institute of Radiological Science.



The screening was started at the Off site Center in Okuma Town from March 12th to 15th. 162 people received examination until now. At the beginning, the reference value was set at 6,000cpm. 110 people were at the level below 6,000 cpm and 41 people were at the level of 6,000 cpm or more. When the reference value was increased to 13,000 cpm afterward, 8 people were at the level below 13,000 cpm and 3 people are at the level of 13,000 cpm or more.
The 5 out of 162 people examined were transported to hospital after being decontaminated.

source

ok this is where it starts to get fuzzy on me..

30,000 cpm....means what?? counts per minute..know that....ok we been using millisieverts all along...lets go with that for a minute

30,000 millisieverts = 30 sieverts....That sounds bad..that can't be it


10,000 mSv (10 sieverts) as a short-term and whole-body dose would cause immediate illness, such as nausea and decreased white blood cell count, and subsequent death within a few weeks. Between 2 and 10 sieverts in a short-term dose would cause severe radiation sickness with increasing likelihood that this would be fatal

source

well that just doesn't work...so lets back this down to microsieverts then

30,000 microsieverts= 30 millisieverts ahh there that sounds better

errrr ok that's WELL below that safe range of 250 millisieverts....

so why take them to the hospital?????

(keep in mind these hospitals are loaded with injured already)

if there is no health risk to people outside the plant area..and for the most part inside the plant area...

why


On March 16th, the Local Emergency Response Headquarter issued “the direction to administer the stable Iodine during evacuation from the evacuation area (20 km radius)” to the Prefecture Governors and the heads of cities, towns and villages (Tomioka town, Hutaba town, Okuma town, Namie town, Kawauchi village, Naraha town, Minamisouma city, Tamura city, Kazurao village, Hirono town, Iwaki city and Iidate village).


source

If there is no risk...why administer Iodine..(in fact..we are getting warnings here in the U.S that it may do more harm than good if we take it)

ok I have seen reports of 400 millisieverts at the plant.PER HOUR....so a worker there would be over his limit pretty fast....seems to me these workers would have to be rotated out hourly..NOT several DAYS later..right??

seen reports of over 3000 milliesieverts per hour by the helicopter pilots over the plant
in fact..I think the highest report I have seen (please correct me) is like 12,000 millisieverts...

and yet...radiation from the plant has been detected in Toyko..and now in the U.S. (trace amounts granted)
seems like such a small leak wouldn't be able to travel all that far would it..

now I am a dummy here...I never have claimed to be smart...

and please correct me if I am wrong....but have they not said..fuel rods in the pools were exposed?? pretty sure thats has been said several times...


Levels beside exposed rods would deliver a fatal dose in 16 seconds, said David Lochbaum, a nuclear physicist for the Union of Concerned Scientists and a former U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission safety instructor.


source

how does radiation of that level drop to so little an amount anywhere in the plant that people can work on power lines?????

So where did it all go??

I know TheRedneck has a great idea regarding updraft the best I can understand it (I think he may be right)
But still even overhead it was only 3000+ Millisieverts per hour....

my point being...is they have to be playing some sort of numbers game..If things are exposed like they say the levels can not be what they claim

and if the levels are what they say..then things can't be exposed like they claim

If it is safe at one level..why treat people at much lower levels

so help me understand this one



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 
Interesting graph. I've gone through the data, hopefully without serious mistakes, and I think that generally it fits with TheRedneck's theory of the radiation updraft to explain why the available data, if it is not fabricated, indicates relatively low radiation exposure at most points most of the time at 1 - 2 km from the reactors.

The data also provides some indirect evidence of sustained radiation levels around the reactors, which is not being disclosed. The graph indicates radiation levels at the main building (Hauptgebaude) about 0.5 km from reactors 1-4 have been consistently around 4 mSv/hr, at least for the last couple of days. No data for that location earlier. At that level of exposure, someone 0.5 km away from the reactors would start to experience acute toxic effects (cumulative exposure of around 0.5 Sv) after four or five days. The other data points are all 1 km or more away and mostly low, except for a few striking peaks at the main gate (Haupttor). Given the consistent elevated levels around the main building at 0,5 km, the peaks at the main gate might arguably be less peaks than just moments in which the radiation levels at the reactors are propelled outward at ground level by various events as far as the main gate. To the degree that is the case, workers close to the reactors would be receiving around 10 mSv/hr and would begin to reach acutely toxic exposure levels after about 50 total hours of exposure.

This would fit reasonably well with the reports of radiation sickness in workers after a few days and some deaths more recently. It would also fit with reports that TEPCO thought the exposure required pulling workers after about three days. And with other data and reports suggesting that so far the release of radiation poses a threat to primarily to persons fairly close to the reactors (20 km or so) where air rising and drifting from the reactors might be pulled back down to ground level by local weather conditions. If this is accurate, the total radioactive releases so far would be enough to be locally catastrophic, but not to be globallly catastrophic after drifting for thousands of kms and dispersing.

All this is pretty much what TheRedneck predicted fairly early on and others have since concluded. Sorry for the long post as I was working it out as I went.

Perhaps one other bit of significance can be extracted from the data -- if the levels suggested are reasonably accurate, illness and death in the workers close to the reactors should become so great in the next few days that the government and TEPCO will probably be forced to release more information and acknowledge the plight of the workers to some extent. If that happens, the tactic of delaying and promising that a solution is near will become untenable. The government will find it very difficult to order new workers (or soldiers for that matter) into the areas immediately around the reactors after most of the first cohort is sickening and dying.




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