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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 217.htm
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posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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The more aggressive the disinfo gets, the more worried I am.




posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91

Nature heals itself; that much is true. I am not sure 20 years is a reasonable estimate, however. Perhaps in 20 years the trees will begin growing and the grass will be green, but that does not mean it is habitable.

Particles exist all around us every day, in everything we see, hear, or touch. Most of these are normal particles that do not bother our bodies. The radioactive ones act like the regular particles, except they also emit gamma rays as they return to their normal energy level... and it is these gamma rays that cause the harm.

Sure, they will be small after that time, but they will still be larger than what our bodies have adapted to accept and they will be in everything, even the fruit on the trees and the grass in the fields. There will be cell damage on a higher-than-normal scale, and this will overwhelm the ability of our bodies to deal with all the cell damage. People may live there, but by doing so they will be accepting a shorter life span due to this.

Do any of us wish to accept such a thing?

Humans live much longer than is necessary to perpetuate the species. All that is required for continuation is that parents do not die until after their children are old enough to care for themselves. That is by age 30 for most, much less than the 70 or so we experience today. Habitable, in the meaning of capable of supporting life, is indeed possible within a short time frame. Habitable, in the meaning of being capable of safely supporting life, is quite another matter.

Don't be fooled by appearances. Nature will find a way, but nature is not always kind. Sometimes she can be downright vicious by our short-sighted standards.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by Bicent76
 


However, It is not going to affect life like Chernobyl. There, the wind patterns brought it westward towards more populated areas, and affected life everywhere, all the way to Scotland, where sheep today are still affected. Meanwhile, in japan, the situation is not nearly as bad, and yes it is not that bad because people can still come there and take pictures. There is no meltdown yet. And wind patterns bring it into an atmospheric whirlpool into the pacific, not Alaska nor the west coat. In fact, if one wanted to have a disaster be least damaging, this is the situation most ideal. The radiation in the immediate area IS BAD. But, it's only in that location, and without a full blown meltdown, the radiation will not stay that high. Radiation requires huge deposits to affectively cause problems. This is called fallout. Because it remains there in huge quantities. This is not the situation.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I said that too. Human life is not yet good for Chernobyl. however, plant an animal life is returning.

Not necessarily Gamma rays. That's antimatter explosions. That's huge. That's massive energy inputed into something that is not capable of holding it. While the occasional rare particle hits us like that, it's requires it hits our dna to do any serious harm. Sure there will be gamma ray bursts, but not only that. And certainly not as high as in Chernobyl.

Fact is we cannot even ingest such huge molecules. Like yous said,we did not evolve to eat something with over 100 protons in a single molecule. however, while it's there, it's causing problems. But, as we continue to live, these sources of problems find their way to the ground, and go to the bedrock. Water carrying them will evaporate, leaving them behind. This is why it is possible for Chernobyl to have life returning to it when they claimed it would take 1000 years. Yes, 1000 years if nothing was dynamic. Luckily for us, the Earth is dynamic.


I am not downplaying the seriousness here. What I am saying is those people claiming we must evacuate the whole of japan and kill the entire pacific ocean least we eat from it are off their rockers.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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This is a turning point people. What RedNeck and I have been suspecting appears to be true. The Japanese have been downplaying the problem with the hopes that they could fix it. It looks like the time has come to admit the scope of the problem.

The moment nuclear plant chief WEPT as Japanese finally admit that radiation leak is serious enough to kill people


Officials admit they may have to bury reactors under concrete - as happened at Chernobyl

Government says it was overwhelmed by the scale of twin disasters

Japanese upgrade accident from level four to five - the same as Three Mile Island

We will rebuild from scratch says Japanese prime minister

Particles spewed from wrecked Fukushima power station arrive in California

Military trucks tackle reactors with tons of water for second day


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...



edit on 3/18/2011 by Erasurehead because: external tags



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Thanks for getting back to me. Yes,I am thinking the same thing. They need to start thinking of a contingency plan,to evacuate those people,and not for the short haul. This is really sad.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Bicent76
 


However, It is not going to affect life like Chernobyl. There, the wind patterns brought it westward towards more populated areas, and affected life everywhere, all the way to Scotland, where sheep today are still affected. Meanwhile, in japan, the situation is not nearly as bad, and yes it is not that bad because people can still come there and take pictures. There is no meltdown yet. And wind patterns bring it into an atmospheric whirlpool into the pacific, not Alaska nor the west coat. In fact, if one wanted to have a disaster be least damaging, this is the situation most ideal. The radiation in the immediate area IS BAD. But, it's only in that location, and without a full blown meltdown, the radiation will not stay that high. Radiation requires huge deposits to affectively cause problems. This is called fallout. Because it remains there in huge quantities. This is not the situation.


I know your just trying to learn. Chernobyl, is not a good example, it is OUR, only example, does not make it right, and also it does not give us a percentile of understanding this current nuclear crisis. Utilizing the information your getting from mainstream to give us your conclusion, is no better then any one of our opinions or conclusions. If you read what we are writing thou, we are mainly avoiding conclusions because most of us are mature enough to admit we do not know. My final correspondence thank you members for your patients.

blessings.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 



But it is true that plants die first. Animals get cancer, then die.

Get yourself a good dose of radiation, and you will not have time to get cancer. Provided that the dose is high enough, you just die.
Grass and cockroaches can stand a higher dose of radiation than humans without dying.
Read ' A Republic of Insects and Grass' by Jonathan Schell.
New Yorker Magazine



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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After Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cried as he left a conference to brief journalists on the situation at Fukushima, a senior Japanese minister also admitted that the country was overwhelmed by the scale of the tsunami and nuclear crisis.

He said officials should have admitted earlier how serious the radiation leaks were.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

This is just terrible. I hate to think about how many lives could have been saved if they had come clean about what was going on earlier. People have been with the danger zone for days now believing what they were told.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Any comparisons to Chernobyl appear to be wrong because we are dealing with MOX fuel here... plutonium... 2 million times more radioactive, with a half-life of 24 thousand years. But where is the radiation? If this was so bad where are the reports of sick/dead people... sorry, don't mean to sound callous, that statement breaks my heart, but I'm questioning everything at this point. I'll be thrilled if this is just a 5. I don't see Russia evacuating it's Eastern Islands. I don't see the scale that would be happening if there was major containment loss, or is it an error? Are we not seeing the Pu fallout show up on the meters? Is that it? If it were, there should still be the evidence of sickness and death. Where is it?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Bicent76
 


This is true. There are very few examples. However, there are others. Three mile island for example. But in the end, most do not end up that bad. Because we have improved in managing such disasters. perhaps the best example is your microwave oven. Does the food remain unhealthy in levels of heat that long after inputed radiation?


reply to post by butcherguy
 


Correct. but it's not that high. As there are still workers at the plant perfectly alive and working. Though they cannot stay there for many hours. Then they get radiation poising. Not instant death.
edit on 18-3-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by monica86
 


So these INES scales for the damage, do they go to a 7 ?

Hearing that 1, 2 and 3 reactors are on a FIVE now - well that means they are gonners, yes ? So will be doing their melting thing now inside of the containment vessel ?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by captiva

Thank you for your kind words.

I believe there is indeed a type of 'time bomb' (I have tried to avoid that phrase, but since you used it first) growing over northern Japan right now, but I do not think it reaches high enough to cause anywhere near the global effects of Chernobyl. On the other hand, Chernobyl, by means of the huge explosions that lofted material so high that it could spread so far, may have actually lessened its local impact.

Radioactive materials have half-lives, that is, time periods during which half of a sample will decay. That is different than what we are used to seeing in terms of other types of fuel. If you put 10 gallons of gas in a car, for example, it will use that gas at a fairly constant rate (if you drive at a constant speed) until it is gone. Nuclear fuel does not work that way. The more of it there is, the faster it reacts. If you could put 10 gallons of uranium in your tank and drive at a constant rate, 5 gallons would be used in the same amount of time as it would take to use the next 2.5 gallons, or the next 1.25 gallons, or the next 0.625 gallons... until finally there isn't enough energy in the uranium to power the car. It would still produce some energy for many many such time periods, until finally the energy produced is too low to measure.

Chernobyl had enough fuel to run itself when it melted down, but after the explosion, some of that fuel was launched up into the upper atmosphere. That left less to melt down at the plant. That lesser amount caused the meltdown to produce less energy at first, leading to even less energy as time went on. And since it is the release of radiation that creates the release of energy, that meant actually less radiation at the plant.

There have been no such explosions at Fukashima that were powerful enough and directed properly to send the fuel into the upper atmosphere. So far, all the release has been radiation and fission products, not the fuel itself... still dangerous, even deadly, but not detrimental to the amount of fuel available in the meltdown.

That is why I believe that this will be primarily limited to Japan, and worse there than Chernobyl. Lower level air currents are much more chaotic than upper level currents, as well as being slower; they are not able to suspend so large a particle size as the upper currents. There will be exposure levels outside Japan itself, I'm sure, but very minor compared to anything Chernobyl did.

At least that is my view and my hope.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by dvrt10
 


From what I understood of the plume track map is that it was just a forecasting model, and not something based on actual numbers already received. This looks exactly how it looked the other day, even though the dates reflect through today.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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edit on 18-3-2011 by harrytuttle because: wrong thread



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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I suspect that they fear a big accident based on 5 rating given to the core problems at 1, 2 and 3

On the contrary, i don't think much of the news about Akio Komiri. It's being reported only by the Mail Online basically a tabloid.

I speak for myself mainly .I personally don't know enough of the japanese culture to interpret the man's behaviour under this kind of stress
However, i believe I have seen other japanese hot shots cry in shame in public.

Japanese don't interpret the "crying" as being an alarming event in itself from what i can tell



edit on 18-3-2011 by monica86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by cosmicpixie

This is one of the contentions between myself and Erasurehead,,, I'm thinking they have to cool the core off to below the melting point of the concrete to keep the cap from simply melting off in the future, but he seems to think enough concrete will prevent that at present temperatures.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not gonna say he's wrong.

TheRedneck


From what I have been told. They would first have to dump tons of boron on fuel rods to disrupt the reaction. It can't stop the reaction completly but the boron will slowdown the chain reaction enough to cool the temperatures so it will not melt though the concrete. It would be some type of mixture of sand and boron in powdered form that they would first dump on it.

Keep in mind I am no expert. I am going by what people that are in the nuclear energy field.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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The last reported temperature level in the spent fuel pond at Unit 4 was 84 degrees Celsius, although increases in temperature up to 1,000 degrees Celsius could cause the fuel rods' zirconium cladding to catch fire, leading to large, unchecked releases of radioactive isotopes


Source- Filling Spent Fuel Ponds

So there is quite a way to go before the temperatures hot up enough to reach 1,000 degrees if it's only on 84 at the moment. How many days or weeks would it take for them to get this hot if the pool was mostly void of water ? On the tables at the IEAE site you can see temps have crept up a few degrees at fuel ponds 5 and 6 in the past few days but according to them, unit 4's temp has been at 84 degrees for 4 days running
edit on 18/3/11 by cosmicpixie because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Are those pools even engineered to be-able to take the impact of the gantry crane unit itself falling on top of it? (I really, highly doubt it, especially after weakening by a higher than engineered for magnitude earth quake).

Seems to me the pools are all screwed and they are trying to cover it up and try to make things a non-issue, because even the elites in japan know that a collapse of the economy now; would totally threaten the plans of world government. People are already tired of their system and leaders, nuclear fallout is even more reason to get restless against them.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by cosmicpixie
 


From what I understand the rods give off massive amounts of radiation if they are not covered by water. If they get hot enough they can all glob together and achieve criticality but we aren't there yet. Right now they are puking out all kinds of X-ray type radiation until they are covered. I'm not an expert though!



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