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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 137.htm
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posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead

Thanks, I'm gonna do some research.... be back shortly.

TheRedneck




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by JoeGuitar
 


I don't think a riot water hose will put out 660,000 fuel rods burning at 2,000+ degrees



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



CNN - High temperatures inside the building that houses the plant's No. 4 reactor may have caused fuel rods sitting in a pool to ignite or explode, the plant's owner said


If not submerged in water spent fuel rods will self ingnite, burn in flames and could explode (depending on how recently they were used )
CNN actually suggested they may already have exploded on tuesday in fukushima n.4


edit on 16-3-2011 by monica86 because: (no reason given)



I can't find the original article . However on this site there is a copy ancientcivilitazionandufo.blogspot.com...
edit on 16-3-2011 by monica86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by windwaker
 


That was showing 012. earlier on now higher and going up



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by windwaker
 


Nope, 130 CPM is considered higher than background radiation can account for, but still well below the unsafe range. We would begin investigating at 130 CPM, nothing less probably.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:31 PM
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2027: Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has said it is also concerned about the spent fuel storage pool inside the building housing reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi. The pools at both reactors 3 and 4 are reportedly boiling - there may not even be any water left in reactor 4's pool - and unless the spent fuel rods are cooled down, they could emit large quantities radiation. Radioactive steam was earlier said to be coming from reactor 3's pool. If cooling operations did not proceed well, the situation would "reach a critical stage in a couple of days", an agency official told the Kyodo news agency.


Latest from bbc live site about the pool:-

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by JoeGuitar
 


I don't think a riot water hose will put out 660,000 fuel rods burning at 2,000+ degrees
I agree.
I really wonder what the effect may be when cold water strikes molten metal. It is probably more like 3,000 degrees F. Generally it is a bad thing when cold water and molten metal meet.
We shall see.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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New post on BBC live blog seems to indicate if things keep on a worsening spiral, the next 48 hours lead up to something pretty darned bad...

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency has said it is also concerned about the spent fuel storage pool inside the building housing reactor 3 at Fukushima Daiichi. The pools at both reactors 3 and 4 are reportedly boiling - there may not even be any water left in reactor 4's pool - and unless the spent fuel rods are cooled down, they could emit large quantities radiation. Radioactive steam was earlier said to be coming from reactor 3's pool. If cooling operations did not proceed well, the situation would "reach a critical stage in a couple of days", an agency official told the Kyodo news agency.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by spark9576
reply to post by Erasurehead
 


What are your sources in Japan telling you?


My contacts in Japan are now in Tokyo so they are no longer close to the situation. They will be getting on a plane headed for LA on Thursday morning. I believe it's already 6:30am Thursday morning over there already so it won't be long until they are out of there. I have been trying to call their mobile phones but I am having trouble getting though.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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OK, here's what I found out.... zirconium in fuel rod cladding is actually an alloy, zircaloy. Zircaloy is highly resistant to most chemical corrosions; it is, however, susceptible to hydrogen absorption from superheated steam, forming zirconium hydride.

This is from the Wikipedia page for zirconium hydride:

Powdered zirconium hydrides are flammable and can ignite and explode if exposed to heat, fire, or sparks. When heated to above 300 °C, they decompose releasing hydrogen gas, which is also flammable.


In other words, the cladding is not flammable, unless exposed to steam over time, after which it can become explosive. These rods were exposed to a great deal of steam, and the cladding may now be flammable/explosive.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by JoeGuitar
 


I don't think a riot water hose will put out 660,000 fuel rods burning at 2,000+ degrees
I agree.
I really wonder what the effect may be when cold water strikes molten metal. It is probably more like 3,000 degrees F. Generally it is a bad thing when cold water and molten metal meet.
We shall see.



Exactly. Or, what is even the point of risking the lives of brave men to take an act that has an almost 0% chance of working.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Well done Redneck. Great job with the research.


This just in on the BBC News wire just minutes ago.


US officials have concluded that the Japanese warnings have been insufficient, and that, deliberately or not, they have understated the potential threat of what is taking place inside the nuclear facility.

www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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The Union of Concerned Scientists has background on the pools. It also explains what happens if cooling in the spent fuel pools is stopped: The radioactive particles in the fuel will continue to decay and produce additional heat. If the spent fuel cooling stops, this heat will raise the temperature of the spent fuel rods. At a high enough temperature the cladding of the rods will start to burn and produce hydrogen, which can explode. The burning of the fuel rod will damage the cladding, allowing the release of radioactive gasses that were produced by the fission reactions when the fuel was in the reactor. Further heating can cause the fuel pellets within the cladding to begin to melt, which will release larger amounts of radioactive gases into the air.


From USA today

content.usatoday.com...



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
OK, here's what I found out.... zirconium in fuel rod cladding is actually an alloy, zircaloy. Zircaloy is highly resistant to most chemical corrosions; it is, however, susceptible to hydrogen absorption from superheated steam, forming zirconium hydride.

This is from the Wikipedia page for zirconium hydride:

Powdered zirconium hydrides are flammable and can ignite and explode if exposed to heat, fire, or sparks. When heated to above 300 °C, they decompose releasing hydrogen gas, which is also flammable.


In other words, the cladding is not flammable, unless exposed to steam over time, after which it can become explosive. These rods were exposed to a great deal of steam, and the cladding may now be flammable/explosive.

TheRedneck


That is a horrific revelation.


Is there any way to know the explosive potential?

Say, compared to other conventional explosives, by weight?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
In other words, the cladding is not flammable, unless exposed to steam over time, after which it can become explosive. These rods were exposed to a great deal of steam, and the cladding may now be flammable/explosive.

TheRedneck


Hmmm, and what's gonna happen when they start spraying water from that fire truck on it? Yup - more steam.

Could they actually be making things worse?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by monica86

The uranium will ignite, but will not explode... that is what was causing me confusion. A potential explosion is from reduction of the steam by the zirconium in the cladding and subsequent rapid oxidation/hydrogen release when exposed to air (oxygen).

See above post.

Now, according to what I have just read... adding water to the spent fuel rods, necessary to contain the radiation and heat they are emitting, has the potential to create even more problems. the water will initially steam, leading to more hydrogen absorption by the zirconium, leading to a higher risk for explosions from the resulting zirconium hydride if it is not quickly submerged.

This may be why the US is pulling back so far: anticipation that Japan is about to write the final chapter to this story.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Just an observation, but I think the request for the riot water cannon was just a P.R. thing so people will think they're trying everything. Just my opinion, but I think the experts know that's not going to help much if at all.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I think the authorities are trying to buy time and are doing things for show rather than coming clean with exactly how bad it is. The water cannon thing is impractical on the face of it. How are they going to continually refill the water cannon trucks? I mean it just sounds very impractical and like they are buying time and not wanting to level with people so as to avoid panic.

They need to start orderly evacuations from a 50-80 mile out radius and just get people out of there. They need to look at orderly evac out of Tokyo as it may be needed in 48 hrs. Just my opinion.
edit on 16-3-2011 by switching yard because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


My understanding is that it has more to do with the huge amount of decay heat that the spent fuel produces. If there are no pumps to change the water, it will boil away. Once the water is gone it will auto-combust. Also, I have been trained that this stuff some of the most dangerous, most radioactive material that we know of.

When a reactor is being prepared for refueling, the decay heat pumps continue to circulate the the main coolant just for this reason even though the main coolant pumps are no longer being used.
edit on 16-3-2011 by Hugues de Payens because: Mis-spelled words



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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umm looks like the Japanese government are getting edgy about other countries interpretation of the situation:-




2046: Japan's foreign ministry has asked foreign diplomats and government officials to remain calm and "accurately convey information provided by Japanese authorities concerning the plant", according to NHK television.


www.bbc.co.uk...
edit on 16-3-2011 by blackcat99 because: duplicate entry



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


thanks, yes, I do see your point now




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