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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade
 


Ok, you said it...I didn't want to be called a fear-monger, but I don't want to be at the other end of the spectrum either, "Nothing the matter here..." It is a VERY GRAVE situation, and I'm sure many people do not understand the possibilities. That is not to say the worst case will happen, but certainly, addressing it seems more rational than ignoring it.

I watched the Rachel Maddow show last night on CNBC, and that was one of the better MSM presentations I have seen, very informative. She said something to effect that knowing the truth is less fear inducing than being kept in the dark about something you know is wrong, but don't have the facts about. Her presentation was very sobering, and very accurate...but even so, many facts about the situation were left out of the conversation, the use of MOX wasn't really discussed, nor were the added implications about it being in use at Fukushima...

I still have hope the worst will be avoided, or should I say "WORSER" may be avoided...




posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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Some will defend themselves to the very end no matter how much evidence points to the contrary. For those interested in facts. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the posts by theredneck and erasurehead. Go back and catch up on the "scenario" before the rods came into the picture.
edit on 16-3-2011 by soundguy because: Wrong Page



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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REDNECK,
Hi. Your understanding of things has been so informative- thanks. When you have 10 mins can you check out the comments made by some chief science guy at a conference today in a Bristish Embassy. He has a more conservative view of what would happen in the worst case scenario and I am wondering if you think he is missing anything. Someone began a thread about it earlier and here is the transcript of his q & answer session

In particular he talked alot about the height of radioactive clouds in the event of a meltdown, saying they would only go to about 500 metres wheras with Chernobyl the blast was pushed up very high into the atmosphere and that this makes a difference in how widely it is dispersed and what kind of area gets affected.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by odd1out
 


I am hopeful they can solve this without the "worst case" materializing as well.

There are some solutions in the works now that are promising... Though timing is critical, they need to keep all efforts to cool these reactors going for as long as possible... Then when it arrives, smother the reactor cores with Boron and boric acid? .. I believe it was said that these can ease a runaway nuclear reaction... IF that is successful they can then entomb these sites with concrete, and abandon the area... It could remain an uninhabitable region for thousands of years after... But it is better than the "worst case"

And I agree, while hopeful they can do the above, it is better to understand clearly and frankly exactly what a "worst case" can mean.

Sorry if I was too explicit in my previous post.

It is what it is.

edit on 16-3-2011 by Fractured.Facade because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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There is talk now about abandoning the plant and making plans to entomb the reactors. I am not sure how they would go about doing that. You will see more talk about entombing the reactors from the MSM soon.

They are making some last ditch efforts but it looks like this is where it is heading. Sealing off the reactors and having an exclusion zone around the area from many many years to come.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Pièce of news: external link with electricity has just been restored for reactor n.3.

As far as forecasting is concerned, I want you guys to read what réputable pro-nukes experts are saying today.....is there a chance they could be right?


the situation is clearly (but slowly) stabilising. As each day passes, the amount of thermal heat (caused by radioactive decay of the fission products) that remains in the reactor fuel assemblies decreases exponentially


I am copying just this bit.. But do read the entière article.. In a way it' shocking.
 
bravenewclimate.com...
 
 
edit on 16-3-2011 by monica86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-3-2011 by monica86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by xavi1000
 


No there will be lots of spent ones packed tight together. Which by the way are even more dangerous. And have already caught fire.




The Japanese were very greedy and they used every square inch of the space. But when you have a dense placing of spent fuel in the basin you have a high possibility of fire if the water is removed from the basin," Andreev told Reuters.


See page 2

Reports: Lax oversight, 'greed' preceded Japan nuclear crisis



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Found an interesting article about iodine.


World Health Organization warns against panic and uncontrolled use of iodine drugs, which is observed today in the world in relation to accidents at Japanese nuclear power plant. In the questions and answers devoted to the disaster, WHO experts point that potassium iodide and other iodinated substances are not "antidotes for the radiation." "They do not protect from any other radioactive substances than radioactive iodine isotopes," - said in a statement.

translate.google.ru...



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead

My concern with entombment is: are the cores cool enough to allow it? We tend to think of concrete as heat-resistant, but it does have a melting point. None of the cores were blown away as in Chernobyl, so they are going to be getting increasingly hotter as time goes on, especially Unit #3 with the MOX fuel.

I may be missing some of the finer points here. I was thinking entombment happened after the core had cooled substantially after decay had subsided.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Erasurehead

I may be missing some of the finer points here. I was thinking entombment happened after the core had cooled substantially after decay had subsided.

TheRedneck


Redneck, they will have to wait for the exposed cores, then smother them with hundreds of pounds of Boron (Japan is out of this at the moment and begging for more, some is said to be on the way from Korea) the Boron can ease the runaway nuclear reaction. IF that is successful, the temperatures will be lower, and more stable, and it can then be "entombed".

Too many IFs at this point, and too little time it seems.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


I think the best minds on Earth will find a way to eventually cool down all the reactors.
Then a whole new structure will be built over those 4 reactors. A decent roof will be
put on it and then they will just sit back monitor the radiation.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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There is an on going press meetin live on nhk right now, they answer every question with"we will have to get back to you on that" like ı said before shtf when first reactoe exploded....



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade

Boron over the top of the mess will absorb neutrons, but not reduce the critical mass... which is the whole cause of the continuing meltdown. In order to reduce the critical mass and slow the reaction to reduce the internal heat, the boron would have to be inserted into the fuel, separating different smaller sections as in the fuel rod/control rod configuration.

As I said, maybe I am missing a finer point on this, but it just doesn't sound feasible at this time... eventually the fuel will be entombed, certainly, but it would do no good if it could just melt the entombment material.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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according to this report (19:00 16/03/2011) www.jaif.or.jp... (PDF)
cooling of 3 reactors is not functioning at all, "core and fuel integrity" is damaged (for all three), containment is suspected damaged for #2 and #3
www.jaif.or.jp...

(posted it a few pages before, but want to repeat just in case)
edit on 16-3-2011 by AstraCat because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


They've been mixing the boron with water to do this for some time now, but ran out of the boron.. They may have more by now.

If it is as you said, then why are they even bothering with it?

If they can somehow contain the reaction at a level where it will not keep melting everything it contacts then they could entomb it.. If there is no way to do this then there is NO HOPE.

Lets hang on to a little hope for a while longer eh?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Placing a layer of boron over the top of molten pools of nuclear material does not seem a vey wise course of action. I see your point about having to mix the material together in order to provide for separating of the reactive material.

It reminds me of what happened in the Texas City Disaster where water was sprayed on top of smoldering nitrate fertilizer effectively sealing in the reactions and not interrupting the chemistry. The resulting pressure build up made an explosion inevitable.

NOT saying that such an explosion would happen here, a nuclear explosion is extremely difficult to manage, but I do see how putting this stuff in a pressure cooker type environment would not be smart.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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According to the info in this thread:

Spent fuel Rod fire could be worse than Chernobyl

www.abovetopsecret.com...

there might be up to 600,000 spent fuel rods stored at this plant in 7 pools. The storage pools require water, too and are apparently compromised.

Redneck?

What are the implications of this?

I hope not as bad as my gut tells me.



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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For what it's worth, in an article regarding 10K plus possibly dead in a single town, Fox (I know...) had this to say:


The latest death toll numbers come as the International Atomic Energy Agency confirms that three reactors had partially melted down. Yukiya Amano, the head of the nuclear watchdog agency, says he plans on going to Japan as soon as possible.


www.foxnews.com...

IAEA confirms that three reactors had partially melted down... RedNeck -- what does this mean? Why did they stop? Did they stop?



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


It does say here that boric acid does slow down the fission rate. If they can keep it on the rods or material for long enough this would help slow the reaction and reduce the amount of heat generated by the fuel rods or "pile" of material. This could buy some time to figure out what to do next. I know that this is an article from our lovely MSNBC folks but it is info.


Water is the key
To head off further damage, Tokyo Electric Power Co. is talking about adding water and boric acid into the reactors and the storage pools, from helicopters as well as fire trucks. The water replaces the liquid that's boiling off because of the fuel rods' residual radioactive decay heat, while the boric acid helps slow down the nuclear fission rate.


Here is this guys worse case scenario.


Physicist David Albright, a former U.N. weapons inspector who is now president of the Institute for Science and International Security, noted today on MSNBC that there's been a "slow bleeding" of radioactive pollution into the environment. The worst-case scenario, he said, would result in a release of radioactivity on a level that's "probably not as much as Chernobyl, but nevertheless a very significant release.

In the most extreme case, the Japanese might have to consider following the Chernobyl example and "dump sand or concrete on the open wound," Nathan Hultman, an energy policy expert at the University of Maryland, told me..


cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com... -theres-a-meltdown-then-what

I have got to go. I am on lunch. I thought that this was interesting.


edit on 16-3-2011 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by Fractured.Facade
 


They are just buying some time, prepping for mass evacuations and awaiting materials, but it's time to start dumping concrete.

More nations advising citizens to leave Japan USA Today

Japanese tsunami: Thousands flee Tokyo as radiation levels reach danger levels & fears of meltdown at nuclear plant grow DailyRecord UK

Another thing they fail to mentions is where is all this seawater draining too.
edit on 16-3-2011 by Regenmacher because: (no reason given)



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