It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 1197.htm
513
<< 1194  1195  1196    1198  1199  1200 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by GhostR1der
reply to post by zworld
 


Z, some knew this from the start. Silv covered it and possibly TRN too. They can't do squat about neutron radiation at the minimum, let alone all the myriad of types no one is testing for when they 'clean' water. Distillation, centrifuges, osmosis can only do so much. You'd have to get to a quantum level to really fix it

Thanks GR. I had a feeling those guys probably covered it. I need to find those pages for the book to show how far ahead the internet community, especially this thread, was ahead of the curve.

This information blows my mind. Im really having trouble thinking that such an enormous level of radioactive pollution has been released and the world, except for a few, knew nothing at all. I just cant fathom it. When you look at the vid of the guy drinking the stuff, and then it goes to them spraying high volume amounts of treated water into the trees, and realize that they have been doing that non stop for many months, while getting the worlds seal of approval for a "cold shutdown", I cant believe the human race is that unaware. Or that nuclear regulators are that cold blooded.

If nothing else, the people of Japan should do a citizens arrest of all heads of Tepco, NISA, METI, JAEA etc etc. They now have all the data they need. The whole world is being poisoned, but especially Japan, because the people in charge of protecting them have turned a blind eye.




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by thorfourwinds



We have provided a Japanese press release version of the instruction document received from NISA in our Japanese website. However, at this time we reserve the right to not provide an English version due to potential misunderstandings that may arise from an inaccurate rendering of the original Japanese text.


And for old stuff that is in english, its disappearing at an alarming rate, including plant data from the early days. And anything that has important data now is left in Japanese and not translated.

Its making the writing of the book very difficult, as much of my data from the early days is in the form of notes with links to the sites with the data. And now the links are dead.

Bastards. All of them.

edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:22 PM
link   
Has anyone else had a post deleted from the PF monster thread and then been given a warning, or am I the first. If I am the first that is so cool.


AND ON EDIT: I came across the following recently in my notes from the early days. It shows how nukie fruitcakes respond to an anti-nuke article, and how a real expert responds.

Below is a classic example of a nuclear expert slamming an anti-nuclear article. The article was actually nothing more than quotes from workers about conditions inside Dai-ichi following the EQ, and a review of past Tepco infractions in all of their nuclear plants.


This article is just another article littered with ambiguities and hype to scare those who are uneducated about nuclear power. I work in the industry developing new nuclear plants and I believe nuclear is the best technology for our future. I spent several years working in fossil fueled facilities, and let me tell you, these places are death traps. The facts speak for themselves. In the USA, there has never been a death attributed to commercial nuclear power operations. The same people writing and publishing these articles are the same people who go home and crank up their AC units, put a casserole in their electric oven, turn on the 52" plasma TV, and open a nice chilled bottle of wine. I would like to see the media actually talk to people who know a thing or two about nuclear power.


Dissecting it, first you have the broad sweeping attack that doesn't really say anything except that the article in question is really really bad;

This article is just another article littered with ambiguities and hype to scare those who are uneducated about nuclear power.

Then comes their credentials for establishing their expertise and the reasons for their deep levels of concern;

I work in the industry developing new nuclear plants and I believe nuclear is the best technology for our future. I spent several years working in fossil fueled facilities, and let me tell you, these places are death traps.

Followed by the reason why nuclear shouldn't concern anyone;

The facts speak for themselves. In the USA, there has never been a death attributed to commercial nuclear power operations.

And making way for a heavy dose of guilt;

The same people writing and publishing these articles are the same people who go home and crank up their AC units, put a casserole in their electric oven, turn on the 52" plasma TV, and open a nice chilled bottle of wine.

Ending with a plea for the truth to be heard;

I would like to see the media actually talk to people who know a thing or two about nuclear power.

Sanctimonious crap like that used to piss me off. Now I just laugh. But Im beginning to wonder. So many of the pro-nuke attacks follow the same pattern, is there a software program they use for this stuff. You know, somthing like "How to Stick it to Greenies". You punch in the issues under discussion and up pops the right response. I wouldn't be surprised.

Luckily for the readers of this thread there was a real expert who posted after the above post and actually addressed the issues being discussed in the article.


I have engineered nine US Mark I BWRs, like Fukushima. I judge that there are technical errors in this article. But some things ring true. There is critical piping in every nuke, piping vital to plant safety. It is subject to operating conditions: pressure, temperature, movement, corrosion, etc. but also seismic loadings. Proper alignment, and welding at joints, is crucial to establishing the necessary margins to survive and function. This is extremely difficult, costly, and time consuming. Very few welders are qualified to do this work; they are the cream of the crop. Each weld is carefully inspected, and the inspection records are kept on file.

If the workers cheat, force fit up of non aligning sections, do not make full penetration welds, skip inspections, falsify the reports, then two things happen. A culture of corruption spreads, as unacceptable work is bought off. And the plant is weak, incapable of surviving maximum loadings. Neither can exist without management and regulators looking the other way.

There is no question that the loss of emergency power, for a long period of time, from the tsunami damage doomed the plants. Within hours, the end-of-the-world core melt down had occurred. But this article raises another point: ruptured cooling systems may have doomed the cores, long before the flood came.

edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:24 PM
link   

Got Sandbags? Nice Rad Numbers



www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

Cracks:
www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

And Now They Are Trying to Address the Freezing Pipe Prevention



www.tepco.co.jp...

Sigh...

- Purple Chive



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:27 PM
link   
fukushima-diary.com...

This is quite devastating for the Whole Pacific especially between Japan and the West Coast of North America.

But basically I see 6 metldowns, that left the station, and while I feel they have to dig underground and Boron and cement this ASAP, who knows to what depth even at this point, however, I don't think we even have a clue what this means.

This could destroy all life on earth. Also the nuclear seems to affect the methane deposits.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:31 PM
link   
www.nctimes.com...

What is with people?

How can they go on creating leak after leak in all the facilities?

Even having half of the people phoning in to their leaders closes 100% of all permissions and makes them stop.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:18 PM
link   
reply to post by thorfourwinds
 


They say always that a Translation is at the moment not available
but in 95% of all Reports a few days later a English Version is there


Do your Country provide Nuclear Information in Japanese or even in Spanish?
I doubt this, Tepco do this in Korean, Chinese and English, ergo 4 Languages covered,
and even 2 Live Cams


Think about Livecams in the White House which covering Obama 24/7


on Edit: Saw this Disclaimer for the first Time:

DISCLAIMER TEPCO's original web site is in the Japanese and the English translation provided here is solely for reference purposes. Should there be any discrepancies between the English translation and the Japanese original, the latter shall prevail.


This is very smart, isn't


reply to post by Unity_99
 


I would not believe anything anymore from that Page!
edit on 1-2-2012 by Human0815 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:23 PM
link   
The post that I quoted above (see bottom of this post) raises an important issue. Tepco was known for falsifying data, and poor workmanship. As the poster stated, welds have to be perfect or they are susceptible to failure. If any plant would experience failure it would be a Tepco plant with it's yakuza welders. Some of the following has been posted before but needs repeating.

There were reports of explosions and radiation spikes before the tsunami hit the plant. The explosions were thought to come from R1. There were also reports from workers detailing blown pipes at R1 after the EQ but before the tsunami. see www.theatlanticwire.com...

And the following was from a Bloomberg article and is from data supplied by Tepco; www.bloomberg.com...


A monitoring post on the perimeter of the plant about 1.5 kilometers (1 mile) from the No. 1 reactor went off at 3:29 p.m., minutes before the station was overwhelmed by the tsunami that knocked out backup power that kept reactor cooling systems running, according to documents supplied by the company. The monitor was set to go off at high levels of radiation, an official said.


There is only one way that a spike of radiation could occur, and that is if fuel somewhere was uncovered. Since this happened so quickly after the EQ it was assumed to be from faulty monitoring equipment, and not a real spike. However, modeling done recently by nuclear engineers disputes this. The following is from Nuclear Engineering International. www.neimagazine.com...

In "Simplified Modeling of the Reactor Primary System and Containment Response following Reactor Scram" James Healzer analyzed different scenarios for boil off to occur in a Mark 1 BWR 4, the same type reactor as Dai-ichi R2, R3 and R4. The difference in time to boil off was dependent upon the length of time that an emergency coolant system functioned after scram. The longer it functioned, the more heat was removed from the core and the longer time it took to boil off once cooling functions ceased. The two parameters were;

a) if no emergency cooling occurred and boil off began with peak heat in the core, the top of the fuel would be uncovered in 20 minutes.

b) if emergency cooling ran for 4 hours, boil off would occur 80 minutes after coolant stopped.

If the EQ took out R1's coolant feed lines, then peak heat would have caused a 20 minute window before boil off exposed the tops of the rods and damage began with a subsequent release of radiation. Which would explain the pre-tsunami radiation spike.



I have engineered nine US Mark I BWRs, like Fukushima. I judge that there are technical errors in this article. But some things ring true. There is critical piping in every nuke, piping vital to plant safety. It is subject to operating conditions: pressure, temperature, movement, corrosion, etc. but also seismic loadings. Proper alignment, and welding at joints, is crucial to establishing the necessary margins to survive and function. This is extremely difficult, costly, and time consuming. Very few welders are qualified to do this work; they are the cream of the crop. Each weld is carefully inspected, and the inspection records are kept on file.

If the workers cheat, force fit up of non aligning sections, do not make full penetration welds, skip inspections, falsify the reports, then two things happen. A culture of corruption spreads, as unacceptable work is bought off. And the plant is weak, incapable of surviving maximum loadings. Neither can exist without management and regulators looking the other way.

.....ruptured cooling systems may have doomed the cores, long before the flood came.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Human0815
They say always that a Translation is at the moment not available
but in 95% of all Reports a few days later a English Version is there


Human_San, that used to be true but not lately. Ive been checking a couple of important documents going back to Dec. and they are still not translated. And all indications from Tepco is that they never will be.


Do your Country provide Nuclear Information in Japanese or even in Spanish?

I dont think thats the issue. Its not about always translating something for others to read, its about causing an international crisis that greatly affects neighboring countries. If China had a meltdown and the plumes headed for Japan, which is where they would head, wouldnt you expect China to release data in both Chinese and Japanese. And if they didn't, how would that make the people of Japan feel.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by zworld
 


Regarding 1.
please check PM

Regarding 2.
i am very happy that this Accident happened in Japan
and not in China,
China would never ever say something about a Accident,
never mind a Live-Cam and a 2 times daily updated Webpages


Even Canada would not do so,
maybe some North European Nations!

I know this sounds very Tepco Friendly
but as i said already: everything have at least two Sides!

To understand Tepco we need to understand the Japanese,
to understand a Nuclear Power-Plant we need to understand Engineering Structure
and a hell of Physics and Nuclear Chemistry!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 02:10 PM
link   
reply to post by zworld[

This isn't one of his posts about water treatment, but it dotes illustrate an intersting point:

post by Silverlok


They should at least have some of those huge fumigation tents (or make some) over the plants to stop the flow particulate matter

 

I will edit in links to the posts about water filtration etc if I find it within the edit window, otherwise I will post a new reply...



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by zworld
 


Regarding 1.
please check PM

Regarding 2.
i am very happy that this Accident happened in Japan
and not in China,
China would never ever say something about a Accident,
never mind a Live-Cam and a 2 times daily updated Webpages


Even Canada would not do so,
maybe some North European Nations!

I know this sounds very Tepco Friendly
but as i said already: everything have at least two Sides!

To understand Tepco we need to understand the Japanese,
to understand a Nuclear Power-Plant we need to understand Engineering Structure
and a hell of Physics and Nuclear Chemistry!


Human-San, I understand that, though I disagree with Canada, which would be forced by their citizens to do such as they have so many ties with the US. But we are talking about two countries that currently have a very strong political and military alliance, Japan and the US.

China wasn't a good example. Lets say the winds blow the opposite direction, and the meltdowns were in California and the plumes and debris ended up in the Orient. Wouldnt you expect the US to offer South Korea and Japan data that was translated, as we are allies.
edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:18 PM
link   
reply to post by jadedANDcynical
 


Thanks J&C. One of these days I hope to get through the whole thread but am stuck in the low 100 page range right now and its taking forever.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Leakage from underground testing.

www.iaea.org...

Have been analyzing potential conditions of Dai-ichi based on two assumptions; that there is a UC and that it suffered a nuclear explosion on March 14th, triggered by a hydrogen explosion in R3 and the UC. So it's just hypothetical stuff but....

In the 1990s the IAEA researched potential radionuclide release from underground test sites on South Pacific atolls. The following is from IAEA's summary of the report;

Nuclear explosions conducted underground generate intense heat and high pressures. The immediate surrounding rock is melted and vaporised and then cools and condenses to form a lava in the explosion cavity......At the atolls, where the surrounding rock is saturated with sea water, the cavity eventually fills with water.....radionuclides become fixed in the solidified lava or distributed between rubble, water and gases remaining in the test cavity. A certain amount of this radioactive material will be dissolved in the water in the underground cavities;

Leakage from some underground test cavities has resulted in tritium concentrations in both lagoons which are some ten times higher than in the open ocean....The Study found that migration of tritium into the lagoons from underground cavities will continue, but within about 100 years the radionuclide concentrations will be below current levels in the open ocean. Other radionuclides, including caesium-137 and strontium-90 would be effectively retained underground within the volcanic rocks, most of their activity decaying and only small amounts of radioactivity being released.

(plutonium levels) are predicted to rise slightly in a few thousand years, as plutonium is released from the test cavities and migrates to the lagoons;


Tritium is the main contaminant leaked. And around Fukushima, high levels of tritium are showing up in the water in sub-drains and trenches everywhere, including R5 & R6. Hmmmm?

These data can be extrapolated to Fukushima as all sit next to the ocean. However, we don't know the depth of the explosion or strata type at Fukushima, where as those in the atolls were conducted in volcanic rock at a depth of 500 to 1100 meters. I'm assuming that the UC is not that deep.
edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 06:11 PM
link   
www.fas.org...

Now remember this is only a theory, but......a nuclear explosion in the UC concurrent with, and venting through, the R3 explosion on the 14th, followed by later expulsions from both R3 on the 14th, and R4 on the 15th and 16th, may be explained below. I believe the initial blast on the 14th was a venting, and the 14th, 15th and 16th were seeps and late seeps.


During a nuclear explosion, billions of atoms release their energy within a millionth of a second, pressures reach several million pounds per square inch, and temperatures are as high as one-million degrees centigrade.

Containment Failures: Containment failures are unintentional releases of radioactive material to the atmosphere due to a failure of the containment system. They are termed “ventings, “ if they are prompt, massive releases; or “seeps,” if they are slow, small releases that occur soon after the test.

Late-Time Seeps: Late-time seeps are small releases that occur days or weeks after a test when gases diffuse through pore spaces of the overlying rock and are drawn to the surface by decreases in atmospheric pressure.

A millionth of a second to reach one million degrees C.

edit on 1-2-2012 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 01:33 AM
link   
New York nuclear plant threatens drinking water for 11M people


NEW YORK (Xinhua) -- The drinking water for more than 11.3 million people could be at risk of radioactive contamination from a leak or accident at the Indian Point Nuclear Plant, located in Buchanan, New York, said a new study released on Tuesday.

According to the report by Environment New York, the state environmental advocacy organization, the drinking water intakes for 11.3 million people in New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut are within 50 miles of Indian Point -- the distance the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission uses to measure risk to food and water supplies. The report also showed that the Indian Point Nuclear Plant threatens drinking water supplies for more than twice as many people compared to any other nuclear facility in the United States. Environment New York is urging the state to deny the plant relicensing and to move toward a future with no nuclear power and use clean, renewable energy such as wind and solar power.

The Indian Point Nuclear Plant, which is 80-minute ride from New York City, has a long history of leaks and accidental releases of radioactive material. One of its nuclear reactors was recently shut down to repair a pump, which was leaking radioactive coolant.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 03:04 AM
link   

Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by zworld
 


Regarding 2.
i am very happy that this Accident happened in Japan
and not in China,
China would never ever say something about a Accident,
never mind a Live-Cam and a 2 times daily updated Webpages


Even Canada would not do so,
maybe some North European Nations!

I know this sounds very Tepco Friendly
but as i said already: everything have at least two Sides!

To understand Tepco we need to understand the Japanese,
to understand a Nuclear Power-Plant we need to understand Engineering Structure
and a hell of Physics and Nuclear Chemistry!


Human-San, I understand that, though I disagree with Canada, which would be forced by their citizens to do such as they have so many ties with the US.


Do you know that in Canada 2 of the most horrible Polluter exist?
1. The Uranium Mines
2. The Oil Sand Industry
And nearly No-One of the Canadians care about this Topic
because this happening far, far away!

This will not help us and our Discussion,
imo. they are all Evil and the World will be a much better Place without
all this Stuff!

We have a bad Influenza Pandemic since a few Days,
since Monday the Kids need to wear a Face-Mask
and ca. 20% are already sick,
Foreign Rumors said this is because of Radiation
but this is Bullpoo!

And the Interim Report: do you mean the translated Text?

Regards



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 03:57 AM
link   

800 celsius - Cesium Vaporizes?




Ichikawa noted that radioactive cesium from a nuclear accident vaporizes at around 800 degrees Celsius. He improved production of bioethanol by introducing a filter to pick up cesium as the source materials were being vaporized. In testing he confirmed that 99 percent of cesium was picked up by the filter. Next he wants to try the machine on actual contaminated lumber from Minamisoma, Fukushima Prefecture.


mdn.mainichi.jp...

Japan to test-drill for seabed methane



Will this hurry the EQ's along?


Japan will start test-drilling for methane hydrate off its Pacific coast in mid-February. It will be the world's first offshore attempt to extract a substance considered to be a future energy source. Methane hydrate is an ice-like substance found deep underground in which methane gas is trapped in water crystals. The methane can be extracted and burned like natural gas. An organization affiliated to the industry ministry said in Nagoya on Thursday that drilling would be conducted at seabed deposits 1,000 meters deep, about 70 kilometers off Atsumi Peninsula in central Japan. The organization will try to extract methane as early as next January to see whether stable and long-term drilling is possible. The test site is believed to hold methane hydrate equivalent to about 14 years of natural gas consumption in Japan. Success in commercial gas production would bring a stable supply of energy to Japan, but cost efficiency currently stands in the way. Thursday, February 02, 2012 15:18 +0900 (JST)


www3.nhk.or.jp...

- Purple Chive


edit on 2-2-2012 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by Purplechive
 

Japan to test-drill for seabed methane



Will this hurry the EQ's along?

- Purple Chive


As far as i know Methane is kind of a Cement for the Plates
and one reason for Earthquakes!



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 02:35 PM
link   

Nothing But Strontium Detected in Evaporative Condensation App



The leak occurred December 4th...

www.tepco.co.jp...

- Purple Chive




top topics



 
513
<< 1194  1195  1196    1198  1199  1200 >>

log in

join