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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

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posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by Ektar
reply to post by rbrtj
 

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but if we already have many highly contaminated places such
as Chernobyl & now Fukushima why can't they be used for a so called "dumping station"?
I realize NO ONE wants to have any more radiation than what they already have, however it seems like
once beyond a certain level of contamination that isn't going away any time soon everyone could benefit from it. Seems like Japan could make a huge profit by doing so & therefore putting the money towards clean up, peoples health (especially the children), relocation & rebuilding if that is even possible.
Just an idea. Thanks for everyone's hard work & time!

Cheers
Ektar


It must be stupid ideas night, no offense to anyone, these are common thoughts I've heard bandied around so next time someone comes up with these winners, hand them an IQ test, no don't bother, you already know.

Dumb idea #1: Use Chernobyl and Fuku as dump sites. Reasoning: They're already nuked, why not?

Both, Chernobyl and Fuku are sitting on top of groundwater, and in Fuku's case, seismically volatile also, in fact the most seismically volatile area on earth! Chernobyl sits on top of an enormous underground lake that supplies the drinking water for half of northern Ukraine! If you were to choose nuke storage sites, these would be some of the worst. What you want is in a storage facility is DRY conditions, EQ stable, preferably non-cracky, non-porous, bedrock/quartz composition, you'd be amazed at how few sites on earth fit that bill. You are dealing with stuff that's deadly 200,000 years from now and longer. What you don't want is that stuff leaking out of rusted/busted/rotting drums and containers and getting into your water suppy, kapish? What you really really don't want is to take a horrible site and then add thousands of tons of the most toxic non-biologic materials known to man and put it on top of your drinking water... got it?


Originally posted by matadoor
reply to post by zworld
 


Personal opinion, Russia needs to build a launch complex at Chernobyl and build huge rockets with strong containment canisters to launch the nuclear waste into space, then send it on a long journey to the sun.

They would make BILLIONS a year in launch fees.

Then it's off the planet for good.



Dumb idea #2: Send the nuke waste into space! Yeeehaw, let aliens deal with it.

Do you have any idea how much nuke fuel weighs? 1(ONE) typical spent fuel cask weighs 151tonnes. Do you know what kinda ummmmmph (thrust) you need to send 151 tons into space? The more weight you are sending up the more fuel you need to send it up, the more fuel you are carrying the more weight you have. At a certain point, you reach negative returns... you can't carry enough fuel to reach escape velocity. For comparison, the usual max payload for the space shuttle including crew and toothpaste was about 23 tonnes. Now look at this little fact:


With 134 missions, and the total cost of US$192 billion (in 2010 dollars), this gives approximately $1.5 billion per launch over the life of the program.

Now that includes Nasa's buildings, paperclips and janitors, but most of the cost of a launch is the fuel. FUEL. Now, given your payload, assuming you could even reach escape velocity, which you couldn't, you would need approx 8x the thrust/cost etc. Now, that's just for ONE CASK. 12 billion $$ for one cask. Annnd.... what if the space vehicle does a Columbia on it's way up?....Hmmm. Wa Wa Wa... flush.

We need to get beyond dumping our problems on future generations and think of energy sources that are sustainable.

Source

[edit] On second thought, you guys probably weren't serious, all good, I'm probably just coming down from a sugar rush... carry on!

edit on 31-10-2011 by Wertwog because: mini coffee crisp and gummy bears.... ohhh sore belly!


[edit] Maybe the Atlantians will take it. Or send it to Antarctica, nobody lives there anyways...
edit on 31-10-2011 by Wertwog because: anybody got a antacid?




posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 12:16 AM
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Radiation readings of US top soil. Far different than Berkeley's. First the milk samples, now this. The folks at Berkeley are loosing credibility.
enenews.com...



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 04:12 AM
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...Or send it to Antarctica, nobody lives there anyways

I am sure the aliens who live there would just love that! Currently, they probably live in the best place to escape from all this.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:15 AM
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Japan Cuts Radiation Exposure Limit for Fukushima Plant Workers



Japan’s government lowered the maximum allowable exposure for workers at Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s crippled atomic station after radiation levels fell.

The limit for new workers at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant was lowered to 100 millisieverts from 250 millisieverts, according to an ordinance by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare that went into force today. Staff assigned to some tasks and those who have already worked at the site are exempt from the revised limit.

www.businessweek.com...

Japanese urged to wrap up warm and eat soup to save energy



The government has launched a nationwide "Warm Biz" campaign, calling on the public to resist the temptation to turn the heating up as temperatures fall. The indications are that this winter may be a particularly cold one in Japan, with the season's first snowfall in the northern prefecture of Hokkaido recorded on October 2, some 20 days earlier than usual and the earliest since 1898.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Experts: 30 years till Japan can close nuke plant



A Japanese government panel says it will take at least 30 years to safely close the tsunami-hobbled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant, even though the facility is leaking far less radiation than before and is considered relatively stable.

The plant, site of the world's worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 1986, was severely damaged by Japan's March 11 earthquake and tsunami. It suffered power outages, meltdowns and explosions that released radioactive material and forced tens of thousands of people to flee the area. While officials say the plant, about 150 miles (240 kilometers) northeast of Tokyo, is now relatively stable, an expert panel named by Japan's Atomic Energy Commission said it would likely take 30 years or more to safely decommission it.

The panel made the estimate in the draft of a report to be completed by the end of the year. The draft was posted on the commission's website over the weekend. Plant workers are still struggling to contain radiation leaking from the plant, although the amount is far less than before. The panel noted that it took 10 years to remove nuclear fuel after the 1979 Three Mile Island accident in the United States, and suggested that the process at Fukushima would be much more complicated and time-consuming. It is also expected to be more costly.

A report Saturday in the Yomiuri, a major newspaper, said independent experts believe the process will cost more than 1.5 trillion yen ($19 billion).

www.tokyotimes.co.jp...



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:39 AM
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Fukushima Officials, Experts to Visit Chernobyl


jen.jiji.com/jc/eng?g=eco&k=2011103100362



Narita, Chiba Pref., Oct. 31 (Jiji Press)--A group of officials and experts from Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan, will visit Chernobyl this week to study ways to recover from a nuclear disaster.

The group of about 40 people left Japan on Monday to visit Ukraine and Belarus on a tour organized by Fukushima University.

The group aims to learn what measures are necessary in areas such as medical care and decontamination to rebuild the prefecture hit by the accident at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

While in Belarus, the group will visit government officials in charge of reconstruction, a radiation research facility and a junior high school starting Tuesday.

The group will then move to Ukraine to visit the Chernobyl plant Friday, the site of the nuclear disaster of 1986.

The group plans to hold meetings with local support groups for evacuees before returning to Japan on Nov. 7.

The group includes Yuko Endo, mayor of Kawauchi, a Fukushima village where most of residents have been forced to evacuate, municipal assembly members in Namie and city government officials in Minamisoma as well as university researchers and prefectural government officials.

(2011/10/31-14:43)



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima: An analysis of traditional and new media coverage of nuclear accidents and radiation



The Internet made an enormous amount of information on Fukushima available, far more than was provided by the media during the Three Mile Island and Chernobyl accidents. While journalists contributed much of the news about Fukushima, citizens actively participated in blogs and on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube, exchanging views and directing others to important news articles or videos. The Internet also gave the traditional media many opportunities for better coverage, with more space for articles and the ability to publish interactive graphics and videos.

Coverage in The New York Times, for example, included an abundance of background and explanatory information about the Fukushima accident and radiation releases in multiple formats and gave readers the opportunity to better understand technical information. Consequently, radiation coverage of the Fukushima accident was better than that of the Three Mile Island or Chernobyl accidents. Television reporting, however, still presented some problems.

a highly interesting piece of Information:



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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You know why people leave here? Because of the crap that certain members throw out. I was making a JOKE about sending the nuke materials into space, I guess certain members simply love to cut down anyone when the opportunity strikes. Glad I don't have to live with you.

I just put my money where my mouth is, something that certain other members won't do.

I just donated $500 to Arnie's efforts. There is a real simple link on the Fairewinds website to do so. Real easy via paypal.

He's pretty much the only reasonable voice out there still digging, and he certainly can't do it alone.

I challenge every member here to do the same.

Can't wait to see the responses to this one.. This is almost way too fun.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by matadoor
 

You need a female and sexy Avatar,
only with something like this your jokes will be understood


I think your contribution was good because we need
a wild and colorful Brainstorming to answer this big Question
and some People may asked them self:" yeah, why not into the Sun"



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Radiation near Tokyo supermarket unrelated to Fukushima crisis

TOKYO, Nov. 1, Kyodo


english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/11/123728.html



A high level of radiation detected near a supermarket in Tokyo appears to be unrelated to the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant, science ministry officials said Tuesday.

An investigation by the ministry detected a high radiation level of around 40 millisieverts per hour near a bottle found 40 centimeters deep in the ground near the supermarket in Setagaya Ward.

If a person were continually exposed to such a level of radiation for two and a half hours, the risk of dying from cancer would increase by 0.5 percent, the officials said.

Although the source of the radiation has not been determined, lead and bismuth, released when radium-226 decays, were detected after workers dug into the ground, they said.

Radium is not among the radioactive substances released by the Fukushima plant since it was crippled by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology said earlier.

The radiation level on the surface of the ground nearby was around 1 millisievert per hour, the officials said. The exposure limit set for ordinary people is 1 millisievert per year.

A resident reported high radiation readings in the area on Friday, prompting the ministry to take measurements, with up to 170 microsieverts per hour recorded at one spot on the surface of a pavement near the supermarket and up to 110 microsieverts per hour recorded at another spot near the shop's entrance.

No alarming radiation levels were measured elsewhere in the area.

High levels of radiation were also detected along a sidewalk in Setagaya Ward in October. Several dozen bottles containing radium were later found under the floor of a house nearby.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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October 25, 2011 07:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time

Kurion Cesium Removal System Continues Operation In Spite Of Small Leakage Found in Drip Pan

Limited accumulation was fully contained within the Kurion equipment and safely removed without release to the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant or environment


www.businesswire.com/news/home/20111025007304/en/Kurion-Cesium-Removal-System-Continues-Operation-Spite



IRVINE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Kurion, Inc., an innovator in nuclear waste management, announced that approximately 3 metric tons (3 cubic meters) of leaked water was discovered a week ago in a processing skid within the Kurion supplied Ion Specific Media System (a.k.a. Cesium Absorption System) at the tsunami-damaged Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant. All leaked water was fully contained within the skid’s drip pan, safely recovered and system redundancies allowed operation to continue at the required rate. The cause of the leak is under investigation.

On October 18, 2011 the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) reported that during scheduled maintenance of the second of four Kurion cesium processing skids “… a puddle of water was found” of “approximately 3 cubic meters” and that “the leakage already stopped”. The “puddle” was removed by pumping the water back to the upstream tank. The leak is very small such that location has as yet not been determined. Prior to discovering the leak, TEPCO had transferred operation to alternate available Kurion processing skids and on October 19 confirmed operation at the presently required processing rate. Operation at this rate continues.

(...)




posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by matadoor
 

You need a female and sexy Avatar,
only with something like this your jokes will be understood


I think your contribution was good because we need
a wild and colorful Brainstorming to answer this big Question
and some People may asked them self:" yeah, why not into the Sun"


It's funny, but one of the main reasons why most people are against launching these materials into deep space is because of a possible launch failure which would indeed prove to be catastrophic.

BUT, what about this?

www.csmonitor.com...

Get the payload to maximum escape velocity and send it on it's way...

Here's a smiley face to ward off the bad vibes from small minded people...


On edit, meant to also add, there are no such things as dumb questions. There may be questions that whomever asks them is not educated on a subject, but a wise person takes this as an opportunity to EDUCATE.

NOT, to try to humiliate someone, which then stifles them from participating in discussion.

Some people really need to not have children, that's for sure.
edit on 1-11-2011 by matadoor because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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TEPCO finds sign of fresh nuclear fission at Fukushima reactor

TOKYO, Nov. 2, Kyodo


english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/11/123753.html



Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday there may be signs of fresh nuclear fission in the No. 2 reactor at its quake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi power plant and that it has begun injecting boric acid to control a possible nuclear reaction.

There has been no change in the temperature, pressure and radiation levels at the reactor, whose nuclear fuel is believed to have melted when the cooling system failed following the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, the utility known as TEPCO said.

Gas samples taken Tuesday from inside the reactor's containment vessel may contain radioactive xenon, a gas typically generated by nuclear fission, the company said.

TEPCO began injecting boric acid early Wednesday into the reactor through a cooling water pipe.

The No. 2 reactor had been considered close to achieving a stable condition called cold shutdown with the temperature at the bottom of its casing staying below 100 C.

Copyright 2011 Kyodo News. All Rights Reserved.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Wertwog
 

I apologize for not being one of the brains on this thread.I didn't realize about the Chernobyl sitting on Ukraine's water supply. There is so much technical information that flies by so fast on this thread it's often difficult trying to keep up as well as trying to learn & educate myself.
I didn't mean for my statements to sound like just take everything & dump it in a huge rubage pile. I of course transportation of any contaminated materials is dangerous. I'm sorry I did not explain myself better. It seems that we should take advantage of the already wasted areas around the world & use dry storage or whatever preventable leakage containers we have at the monent & if we can safely transport those to those areas it seems safer than having all this crap every where....I know there is no end but I think we can still make things better.
I do respect your contributions & time to this thread as you are one of the brains that has been sticking it out & helping some us learn things we never expected to see in our life time.

Cheers
Ektar



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by Ektar
 


One reason why i like the Documentary "Into Eternity",

when you look for such a Place you will need to think in a Geological Time-Frame,
you need to know what is happen and happened there 25.000- 2.000.000. and more years,
also you need to find a Way to explain further Civilizations of the Humankind to not dig there!

Fact is that the Nuclear Complex, aka us (we are responsible),
do not know what to do with all this Stuff!

Boric Acid?


In the beginning of this Disaster i read that this Boric Acid has a Maximum of Load
and Time, after this is exhausted this Boric Acid will change into something "dangerous",
is this is a fact, a speculation, simple not true or is this unknown?

Radiation is increasing here, slowly but constant,
we got this 30% increase in the last Weeks and this Morning we got a further 10%.

No Rain, Wind come from the South going to the East!


edit on 1-11-2011 by Human0815 because: cant post the link because illegal



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Ektar
reply to post by Wertwog
 

I apologize for not being one of the brains on this thread.I didn't realize about the Chernobyl sitting on Ukraine's water supply. There is so much technical information that flies by so fast on this thread it's often difficult trying to keep up as well as trying to learn & educate myself.
I didn't mean for my statements to sound like just take everything & dump it in a huge rubage pile. I of course transportation of any contaminated materials is dangerous. I'm sorry I did not explain myself better. It seems that we should take advantage of the already wasted areas around the world & use dry storage or whatever preventable leakage containers we have at the monent & if we can safely transport those to those areas it seems safer than having all this crap every where....I know there is no end but I think we can still make things better.
I do respect your contributions & time to this thread as you are one of the brains that has been sticking it out & helping some us learn things we never expected to see in our life time.

Cheers
Ektar


The apology is mine to give Ektar, I certainly meant you no offense and was referring more to the folks who banter this idea around as I have seen it elsewhere. I was a bit harsh in my condemnation and afterwards realized you must have been joking or didn't know how badly these plants were sited for such a use. I really was vibrating with a sugar overload also a bit cranky also. I'm regularly dumb, quite stupid in fact, just as dumb as a floor tile mostly and I've certainly had my share of dumb ideas and it took someone pointing out that they were dumb for me to figure it out. I hope you realize I value your input to the thread, you have a fresh and unique perspective. Anyone who can train sheepdogs rocks! I've seen them in action, have a hearding dog myself, and know that you have to have your wits about you to outsmart them



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by matadoor

Originally posted by Human0815
reply to post by matadoor
 

You need a female and sexy Avatar,
only with something like this your jokes will be understood


I think your contribution was good because we need
a wild and colorful Brainstorming to answer this big Question
and some People may asked them self:" yeah, why not into the Sun"


It's funny, but one of the main reasons why most people are against launching these materials into deep space is because of a possible launch failure which would indeed prove to be catastrophic.

BUT, what about this?

www.csmonitor.com...

Get the payload to maximum escape velocity and send it on it's way...

Here's a smiley face to ward off the bad vibes from small minded people...


On edit, meant to also add, there are no such things as dumb questions. There may be questions that whomever asks them is not educated on a subject, but a wise person takes this as an opportunity to EDUCATE.

NOT, to try to humiliate someone, which then stifles them from participating in discussion.

Some people really need to not have children, that's for sure.
edit on 1-11-2011 by matadoor because: (no reason given)


I agree with Human. Failing to see your joke, which you say it was, I initially responded perhaps a bit to harshly and blame an overindulgence of sugary evil which lead me to the dark side. I was prepared to offer sincere apologies for my manner since I missed the hilarity of the joke. Silly me! I thought you were serious.... Now if something so small as me saying some ideas are stupid leads folks to not post should I really care? It's not what this forum is about... which from what I recall is about separating the good from the bad ideas, the truth from the not-so-true, so we can discover what IS true.

Now I see you are defending your "joke" now revealed as not-a-joke at all (oh the duplicity! Smiley face!), with yet another idea of 'questionable merit', unless you are not proposing to catapult nuclear waste into everyone's outer space, as if space it were our planet's personal garbage can. So, I'm recinding my apology which I had had ready to press the go button on. Not content on fouling our nest now you suggest to foul every other alien's. You want to add more tech into the picture the net effect of which will only let us continue having nuke power because we can. You want to fill the world with nuke reactors do you? You have thought this out quite thoroughly I see. *facepalm*

Annnnnyhow.

Now let us get these nice folks back to their regular scheduled programing shall we?

[edit] One last note on the 'family planning' remark. I'd rather that people who could see a dumb idea for a dumb idea reproduce lest our race end up with the IQ of squids. No offense to the squids who are highly adapted and just as smart as they need to be (and tasty).
edit on 1-11-2011 by Wertwog because: momma get me off this rock



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by jjjtir
TEPCO finds sign of fresh nuclear fission at Fukushima reactor

english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/11/123753.html

Gas samples taken Tuesday from inside the reactor's containment vessel may contain radioactive xenon, a gas typically generated by nuclear fission, the company said.



This has been discovered because, for the first time ever, Tepco has actually tested the emissions within the reactor building for gaseous emissions. They did this with the new gas treatment line that they just installed. The same line that they had to flush hydrogen out of, only to have more hydrogen fill the line, showing hydrogen was being produced as well. Had they been testing for gas in the steam clouds that have been coming from the reactors since day one, they probably would have found Xenon and other fission gases all along.

But Tepco doesnt want to do these basic tests that every country with nuclear energy demands of their operators in case of an accident.

Tepco tests for particulates (dust sampling), but not gaseous emissions and water vapor, which require a completely different methodology. They are missing many radionuclides by only doing dust sampling. Tritium, many forms of Iodine and plutonium, xenon and any other radioactive gas, and other contaminants.

The world's nuclear regulators and producers all knew Tepco was dodging a bullet, and sat back and twiddled their thumbs hoping no one would notice. They are all complacent, and should be charged for crimes against humanity, just like John Gofman suggested.

R2 is the first reactor to get the gas treatment line installed. 1 and 3 are scheduled for one, but I have a feeling that Tepco will find ways to delay this from occurring. Now that NISA will make them test for gases.
edit on 1-11-2011 by zworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Aircooled
Radiation readings of US top soil. Far different than Berkeley's. First the milk samples, now this. The folks at Berkeley are loosing credibility.
enenews.com...


Bigtime difference. UC consistently found only 2.2 to 2.9 Bq/kg while the researcher doing the doctorate found levels in soil of 296 Bq/kg, over 100 times greater. But then again, UC Berkeley is a school of nuclear engineering. Sink nuclear power and that school would be obsolete. In general I dont trust any agency that is govt run or govt funded. Especially in the US.



posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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Got a reply from the New Zealand national radiaton laboratory, only after ringing them because my emails got rejected.

After pressing about measurements of cesium in milk and in rainwater and other food stuffs, they said they have detected no increase in cesium in milk powder or milk, above the already present 1960s levels (from nuke/accident fallout). They can measure down to millibequerels (0.001). Across the board they stated that they have ND aka no detection above prior to fukushima levels, in any foodstuffs or water supplies.
They also stated that most of the fallout is still in the northern hemisphere. Hardly any has come south to their monitoring stations in this part of the world, what has is barely above detection limits - they have been watching radnet sensors and other networks as well.
One comment they made was a certain international team (they didn't name) went in with good gear but bad usage practice and came up will all sorts of of results which are likely to be innacurate. I asked it if it was greenpeace they said no, so perhaps it's the globaldirt crew? Not sure. They certainly didn't say fukushima wasn't a problem, just that some measurements that are taken are done in a very poor method.
They plan to commence seafood testing, as they agreed that most of the contamination has been waterborne and was an area of concern.
They don't release results continuously or to the public as there is very little interest, being a nuclear free country. 2011 radiation test result summary should be out in about half a year.

My response is to take all of this with a grain of salt until I have my own measurement devices and methodology. Who can you trust?



Regarding the import car transporters from Japan:
MOH reveals results of radiation tests on Japanese car imports
Old article but again extremely small to no detection. My worry is that they have stopped testing, surely a few hot cars will come through.
edit on 1/11/11 by GhostR1der because: misspelt NRL



posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Well what do you guys think of this? Do we have a hole blown in #2?


enformable.com...




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