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Japan declares 'nuclear emergency' after quake

page: 1067.htm
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posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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I found your discussion on galvanic transport on page 963. I remember reading it at the time and I think Im still trying to understand it fully, alot to learn. Add in the salt and I have a feeling the defective steel in Fukushima is pretty wasted.but I digress.


Originally posted by Silverlok

The reason they tried salt is because it is fairly resistant to being radioactive and has an excellent thermal capacity.


On page 515 or so Wertwog brings up the fact that Gundersen said that salt in the water was going to cause re-criticality. And also that the chlorine isotope they found was a sign of re-criticality at that time.

Hypothetical situation. They started saltwater on the 12th. By the time R2 and R3 melted there would have already been a couple of feet of salt laying around. There is some question as to where this salt would have been depending on whether or not the downcomer was plugged. If in the RPV, wouldnt all of the RPV contents before breaching the vessel have melted together with the salt forming one mass. And if so, would this molten salt store Wigner energy within the corium mass.

Wertwog, did you ever find out what Gundersen was referring to.




posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by Silverlok

Originally posted by Human0815

Originally posted by Tallone
reply to post by Human0815



 

reply to post by Tallone
 


I think everyone in this Forum know that the Industrial Complex is big, perverse and fascistic,
but we cant go and try to kill this Monster because it has to many Headz!

So, what do you want to do?

edit on 16-9-2011 by Human0815 because: add a question


Inform people, rather than divert them. Deal with the truth, rather than play with other's minds. How about you?

edit on 16-9-2011 by Tallone because: (no reason given)



In Reality i am absolute Clueless
because nothing really helps




So? where is your sense of adventure man , if you've got to die you might as well go out under lightning and thunder filled Wagnerian skies standing on a pile of your enemies bodies swinging blows until the last and spitting a death curse through clenched teeth with your own blood until the lights go out ... I abhore fighting but when good men do nothing...well you know the rest ...anyhow in this, the information age, the age of the meme, perhaps all that action and adventure isn't necessary...



Maybe i've seen more horrible and perverse things than an exploding Nuclear Plant?

It is very easy to speak about "Fighting", "Revolution" and "Apocalyptic End of the Days"
but trust me when your Life is shattered, your Family killed and your Land destroyed
you will have no Energy for that, as well you lose the believe into Mankind!

In the Movies and Books as well as in Theory it looks easy and logical
but the Reality is much different, or at least i am!

Look, there are much more horrible Things in this World than F'Shima and we are quite,
we do nothing even the solution is soooo easy, we became Cowards instead of spilling the Blood of the Pigs!

I become kind of a Misanthropist already 30 Years ago.



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Hello all... It is raining cats and nuclear puppies outside, anyhow.....
I was clearing out my mail box and this just popped in.
I hadn't seen the new siding job, so anyhow here is the very latest from fuku1, thanks man your awesome.
rbrtj



posted on Sep, 17 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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Come join the “Goodbye to Nuclear Power Plants” Rally!




Affected by the earthquake on 11th March, the Fukushima Daiichi Power Plant of TEPCO is suffering meltdown, the worst possible situation, in its reactors number 1 to3. This has become an unparalleled disaster, where high level radioactive materials have been released, following hydrogen explosions and the damages to the reactor buildings, into sea water, air and soil, contaminating the environment.

Even two months after the earthquake, the reactors show no sign of coming back to control and the situation continues to be extremely unstable. It is feared that there would be immeasurable effects on the health and lives of not only the local residents and the workers at the power plant but also the future children yet to be born. We have always been aware that humans cannot live with nuclear. We are deeply regretting that even though we knew this fact, our protesting voices and actions against nuclear energy have been far too weak.

We are determined to take actions for a “peaceful and sustainable society”, reconsidering our lifestyles that exploit nature and waste limitless energy, and focusing on natural energy. For that purpose, we set the following goals: 1. Cancellation of construction plans for new nuclear power plants 2. Planned termination of existing nuclear power plants, including the Hamaoka nuclear power plant. 3. Abolition of “Monju” and nuclear reprocessing plants which use plutonium, the most dangerous radioactive material.

We will achieve these goals in order to save our own lives, and fulfill our responsibilities to the future children. We will hold the “Goodbye to Nuclear Power Plants” Rally as follows. Please join with your friends and families. Date: September 19th, 2011, Starting at 13:00 Place: Meiji Park, Tokyo (Five minutes walk from JR Sendagaya station, two minutes walk from metro Oedo line Kokuritsu Kyogijo station (Exit E25) Expected number of participants: 50,000(There will also be a parade after the rally.)


Someone join me?



Open Sept 19 Time Meet at 1pm, parade from 2.15pm
URL sayonara-nukes.org/english/
Venue Meet at Meiji Park, Sendagaya


edit on 17-9-2011 by Human0815 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2011 by Human0815 because: format



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Human0815Maybe i've seen more horrible and perverse things than an exploding Nuclear Plant?

It is very easy to speak about "Fighting", "Revolution" and "Apocalyptic End of the Days"
but trust me when your Life is shattered, your Family killed and your Land destroyed
you will have no Energy for that, as well you lose the believe into Mankind!

In the Movies and Books as well as in Theory it looks easy and logical
but the Reality is much different, or at least i am!

Look, there are much more horrible Things in this World than F'Shima and we are quite,
we do nothing even the solution is soooo easy, we became Cowards instead of spilling the Blood of the Pigs!

I become kind of a Misanthropist already 30 Years ago.



ah , it was part in jest , by mostly , a thing I live by . Movies are (mostly) crap, and the puppet theater of it and television poorly parodying real life is not something I spent much time on .

There are much more horrible things than Fukushima(that's a tough sell) ? again so ? nihilism is not my cup of tea, I see striving as a way to express and stress the dynamic between ego and self, potential if you were , and I am fully and personally aware of the burden one carries in fighting , as I have done it many times , and I am of the opinion that it is not easy to speak about. In fact it is a horrible battle to try and not be consumed and transformed by the experience , let alone advocate it's use , but what better reason to strive for change than the loss of love and beauty in the world or one's life?


The political and financial structures that permitted ( and even endorsed ) the fukushima event to happen are crimes...the largest ones in human history ...if you believe that the challenge of bringing this to light and at least trying to seek a solution is too much then you already number among the dead . it's not for me to judge , we all have our own path ...


A friend of mine by the name ofWilliam Elliot told me the story of a young man who's father stopped talking to him at the age of nine( this was made into a movie ) the boy was emotionally distraught by this as the father did not speak to him until the boys 25th birthday. when the father verbally wished the boy a happy birthday , the son asked , "father why have you been silent to me for these 16 years, I cannot begin to tell you the anguish I have suffered ", the father replied; " my son at the age of three you were reading , at four writing , at 7 fixing things around the house and at 8 giving advice to people that was better than any advice I could give them. I knew at that day you had surpassed any lesson I could teach you save one . And so as a gift for your ninth birthday you received silence, because you were so unusual , you had grown past most men and were still growing soon you would grow impatient with other people and then develop contempt contempt for them in there lack of intelligence. then , with your gifts you would become a great force for evil , unless you somehow learned compassion , and that my son is my gift to you . Is this not an expensive lesson fukushima teaches us all
edit on 18-9-2011 by Silverlok because: size, wtf, over

edit on 18/9/11 by masqua because: Fixed quote (I hope)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by zworld

I found your discussion on galvanic transport on page 963. I remember reading it at the time and I think Im still trying to understand it fully, alot to learn. Add in the salt and I have a feeling the defective steel in Fukushima is pretty wasted.but I digress.


Originally posted by Silverlok

The reason they tried salt is because it is fairly resistant to being radioactive and has an excellent thermal capacity.


On page 515 or so Wertwog brings up the fact that Gundersen said that salt in the water was going to cause re-criticality. And also that the chlorine isotope they found was a sign of re-criticality at that time.

Hypothetical situation. They started saltwater on the 12th. By the time R2 and R3 melted there would have already been a couple of feet of salt laying around. There is some question as to where this salt would have been depending on whether or not the downcomer was plugged. If in the RPV, wouldnt all of the RPV contents before breaching the vessel have melted together with the salt forming one mass. And if so, would this molten salt store Wigner energy within the corium mass.

Wertwog, did you ever find out what Gundersen was referring to.


salt forms a metallic fluid , but likes crystals at low temps, carbon on the other hand does not form a fluid I know of (at temps we are going to see inside the nuker, unless it is at cladding loss time, then the carbon might be like pop rocks) , soooo it is a good bet wigner transforms are ruled out for salt at teh temperatures of the cores after teh CRITICAL PHASES, and possible not good for salt at all , and we do not have large masses of salt crystals anywhere in any of the cores , the pools on the other hand may have been at the PERFECT temperatures for wigner transformations, and it may be why four blew a stack

Gunderson's remark (which I do not remember involves
) almost certainly involves fluid criticalities due to the salt increasing the galvanic transport of uranium an plutonium into the water . Also I think I first mentioned galvanic transport on about page 340? or so...there is some good stuff back there
edit on 18-9-2011 by Silverlok because: forgot # I though was obvious



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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Former judges say court cases involving nuclear plants were hard to judge



Cases involving nuclear power plants were difficult to judge, according to former judges interviewed by the Mainichi. Amid the current spate of lawsuits seeking shut downs of nuclear power plants after the disaster at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant, the Mainichi interviewed 10 former judges who handled past lawsuits that dealt with the safety of nuclear plants.

Almost all the ex-judges talked about how hard it was to treat nuclear energy issues in court, and one judge said that after the Fukushima crisis he now feels he did not take the dangers of nuclear plants seriously enough. In none of the cases did the judges rule in favor of the residents who filed them.

Some judges, however, predicted that after recent events, courts will be more critical of the government and power utilities that operate nuclear power plants. The 10 former judges were among 36 contacted by the Mainichi who were involved with 14 major nuclear-related lawsuits. It is unusual for former judges to reveal their personal thoughts on their past cases.

More to read:

Siemens to quit nuclear industry



German industrial and engineering conglomerate Siemens is to withdraw entirely from the nuclear industry. The move is a response to the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan in March, chief executive Peter Loescher said. He told Spiegel magazine it was the firm's answer to "the clear positioning of German society and politics for a pullout from nuclear energy". "The chapter for us is closed," he said, announcing that the firm will no longer build nuclear power stations.

Source:



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by Silverlok
 


I do not fully understand your Posting/ it is very difficult to read,
but let me say that i do not sitting only on my A.. and posting the News
or gave up in total


I changed my Focus,
before i tried to "change" the World but this is very difficult,
now i try "to protect" the Children in my Neighborhood and this works well/ or better!
(with the PTA/ Parent Teacher Association)
In the beginning none of the Parents here knew what to do,
i helped them to get a Background because when i was in my '20 Tschernobyl happened
and in that time i needed to learn a lot!

Now my Wife and i mapping our Hood and we found already some Hotspots with more than 0.55uSv/h,
the next Step is that we "order" our Townpeople to clean this!

Of course i thought/ hoped that F'Shima radicalize the People
but as we can see not much happen.

A real change need more than just an Impulse,
and i think this is Okay!
edit on 18-9-2011 by Human0815 because: grammar


Damaged nuke plant may lose insurance



The insurance contract with Tokyo Electric Power Co. comes up for renewal in January, the Asahi Shimbun reported. If the plant's insurance is canceled, it would technically be operating illegally. "The insurance contracts are targeted at nuclear reactors that are operating normally and are not leaking out radioactive substances," one industry executive said. "It will be difficult to renew the contract under the current circumstances." Read more: www.upi.com...

edit on 18-9-2011 by Human0815 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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New Cryptome Pictures - Some are amazing!!



cryptome.org...

- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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At least one billion becquerels a day of radiation continue to leak





- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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Siemens announcing that the firm will no longer build nuclear power stations



Yeah!!!


Berlin's target of reaching 35% renewable energy by 2020 was achievable.


www.bbc.co.uk...

Proud of Germany for taking such proactive steps! Now if we could only get rid of the greed and corruption in the USA.

- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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Big Dip in Unit 3 Reactor Water level and yet a HUGE drop in Temperature at the Same time



Has the Corium left the building?

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...

- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Purplechive

I-131 in Seawater...fission...Unit 2



www.tepco.co.jp...

- Purple Chive



I posted this on August 12th...and now EX-SKF posts this yesterday, September 17...

ex-skf.blogspot.com...

And Enenews reporting I-131 showing up in different places in Japan on August 15 through 25th...

enenews.com...

- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Remarkable...Cesium found only in 4.3% of rice tested!!



Fabulous news! Wonder if somehow during the production of the rice seed the radiation is absorbed by the stalk and prevents transfer to the seed?


Radioactive tests on rice have been completed in more than half of the Tohoku and Kanto regions, and radioactive cesium has been detected in 4 percent of the samples. But the highest level detected so far is about a quarter of the government's safety limit.



With the preliminary and main tests combined, the results are known for more than 60 percent of the test locations. Radioactive materials have been detected in 94 locations, or 4.3 percent of the total.


www3.nhk.or.jp...

- Purple Chive



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Purplechive
Has the Corium left the building?

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...


Huh. That doesn't make sense. did they start adding extra water to coincide with this dip in water level.

Wonder what caused the dip in the first place. Thats a pertty big drop isnt it? Hmmmmm.



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Purplechive
Has the Corium left the building?

www.tepco.co.jp...

www.tepco.co.jp...


Huh. That doesn't make sense. did they start adding extra water to coincide with this dip in water level.

Wonder what caused the dip in the first place. Thats a pertty big drop isnt it? Hmmmmm.


Right Z - It doesn't make sense. They increased water injection on 9/16 to 12 tons and temp 103.

www.tepco.co.jp...

According to the chart drastic drop in Unit 3 reactor water level occurred on between the 9/17 and 9/18.

www.tepco.co.jp...

Meanwhile temp on 9/16 was 103 and between 9/17 and 9/18 decreased to 92.7 C. An Eleven degree temp drop in such a short period of time....?????

www.tepco.co.jp...

Kinda like to see a smooth line when you are dealing with such volatile crap...IMHO...

I think the last heat up melted through the containment basement...and has left the building. TEPCO certainly achieved their "Cold Shutdown"!!

- Purple Chive

edit on 18-9-2011 by Purplechive because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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#Radiation in Japan: 42,000 Bq/kg of Radioactive Cesium in Dirt Around a Drain in Yokohama City



It's not that the city that clearly does not care much about radiation safety (cesium beef for kids, dumping radioactive ashes in the ocean) did the measurement on its own. A citizen measured the radiation in the area, got the sample and had it tested using his own money, and alerted the city when the result came in.

Then, the city finally went and took the sample to be tested. The result was 42,000 becquerels/kg of radioactive cesium from the dirt that accumulated around the drain grid on the side of the road in Kohoku-ku (Okurayama) in Yokohama City, just inside the 250-kilometer radius from Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant. The city also found 35,000 becquerels/kg of cesium in the sediment at a fountain nearby, 27,600 becquerels/kg from the dirt overflow from the plant box on the road, and 11,320 becquerels/kg from the dirt overflow from the plant box on the side walk.

source


Is our U.S. Government doing the same thing, waiting on a citizen to do the work and use their money to do it??

If so, I suggest those who can, do it for folks like me who don't.
Thank you in advance.
rbrtj :puz
edit on 18-9-2011 by rbrtj because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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No radiation detected in West Coast fish



No radiation has been detected in West Coast fish stocks following the Fukushima nuclear incident, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is reporting. Twelve fish samples were tested on August 22 and 23 and all were below Health Canada action levels for radioactivity, the CFIA announced Friday. Samples of pink, sockeye, chum, coho and spring salmon, and albacore tuna were collected at various points across the British Columbia fishery, according to CFIA spokeswoman Alice d'Anjou. The tests were conducted because of concerns raised by the failure of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in northeastern Japan in March.


Canadian source
I still don't get that warm fuzzy feeling, but the report only took a month, so that must be a record.
Keep up the research folks.
Rbrtj



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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I apologize for the many posts in one page, but i just ran across some Youtube footage that i thought you especially the younger ones would appreciate.
I was only 9 years old when this happened and man did it bring back memories and make me realize what my parents were going through
Enjoy.

Three Mile Island Walter Cronkite, CBS, 03.30.1979 1v2
source
The vid did not work, but the link I provided does.
Dang gremlins.
Rbrtj

edit on 18-9-2011 by rbrtj because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by zworld

Originally posted by Wertwog

“I saved the company billions of yen,” said Tanaka, who says he was paid a 3 million yen bonus and presented with a certificate acknowledging his “extraordinary” effort. “At the time, I felt like a hero,” he said.

Good score. And the R4 shroud had the 180mm crack they found in the 90s.
-------------
The thing that comes to mind concerning the Wigner effect isn't so much during use of the reactor, but what has happened since then, with temps between 120C and 200C since early March. That and the fact that sea salt is a crystal and everything is covered in it at this point. And there are other moderators in the melt aren't there. I'll check.

Greetings:

As persons who grew up and were schooled in the United States, many of us do not 'automatically' make the adjustment or correlation between millimeters and inches - and perhaps 'do not really understand' that 180 mm is OVER 7 inches!

When we think of a 'crack', it usually references a crack in the paint on the ceiling or a broken sidewalk-type crack - something less than you could stick a pencil into. A 7-inch crack in a concrete wall would be bad enough - but a nuclear reactor?

Our question: Did this 7-inch crack appear 'overnight' in this particular nuclear reactor?

One might think that this would scare the hell out of the operators and we wonder why did this not SCRAM the reactor?

Also, earlier in this thread, we postulated the idea that the borate moderator has reached its lifespan and was probably being inhibited by the saltwater and wouldn't be actually 'operational'...?

Oh, the joys of nuclear power...

In Peace, Love & Light

tfw



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