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As American as Union Busting

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posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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It all went down last night. The Wisconsin Republican assembly passed a bill that busts public workers unions. That's when everything went chaotic. And it seems the fallout from their move may have emboldened enough people to cause a nation wide backlash.



It all came to fruition when...




The Republican-led Wisconsin Assembly passed a bill to bust public workers unions Thursday afternoon, after Republican state senators managed to bypass Senate Democrats who fled the state and pass the legislation Wednesday night.

The bill to strip public employee unions of collective bargaining rights was passed by a 53 to 42 vote in the Assembly and will now head to Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's office.

Walker said he would sign the bill into law "as quickly as we can legally."

In mid-February, 14 Democratic state senators left Wisconsin to avoid having to vote on the budget repair bill. There are 19 Republican senators, but the Senate needs a minimum of 20 members to be present to debate and vote on any bills that spend money.




Click here to read the article.




Thousands began to organize protests and grassroots movements to stop the madness. AFL-CIO president gave a speech today...




The head of the largest federation of unions in the United States, AFL-CIO President Richard L. Trumka, jokingly thanked Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker Thursday for igniting an impassioned debate on workers' rights.

"Well, thank you, Scott Walker," Trumka said during a speech in Washington, DC to the group Campaign for America's Future. "We should have invited him here today to receive the Mobilizer of the Year award! Because Gov. Walker's over-reaching has brought us to this moment to talk about jobs. This is the debate we've wanted to have. Well, guess what? Suddenly the debate came to us, and we're winning."

"In your lifetime, have you ever seen this much solidarity, this much excitement, this much activism?" he continued. "As progressives, it is our job to transform the outrage and make this moment a movement – to ensure that this corruption in the Midwest does not stand."




Click here to read the article.




WI(R) Senator Fitzgerald admits this is all about defeating Obama...









To recap, the billionaire Koch brothers, the puppet masters who control the strings of the Gov. Scott Walker...










...have been identified for their dirty business practices...









While the public workers unions are busted for nurses, teachers, and EMT's, they made an exception for Police Officers. But, why would they do that? Well, whose going to beat the protestors back with storm trooper outfits on? Certainly not disenfranchised law enforcement officers!






edit on 10-3-2011 by v1rtu0s0 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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Thanks for writing that up, that's a new perspective I hadn't been aware of. I'm just in shock today over what is happening to our democracy. What are we going to do?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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I think people are starting to realize that the public unions and private unions are two separate beasts. When the public union employees are bargaining for more more more, who do you think pays for it? THE TAXPAYER. No one is busting up private unions. The public unions members that get paid out of the taxpayers pocket is getting posh benefits that most taxpayers will never see. Why would anyone be OK with Not busting up PUBLIC unions? Federal employees don't have a union. Why should state, city or county. Anyone paid with taxpayer monies should never be in a union.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:35 PM
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You mentioned Nurse's and EMT's Unions in your post. Those, to my knowledge, aren't "public sector" unions. There is a very good reason that the Police and Fire Unions aren't being broken up. They have specific rules in those unions that limit their collective bargaining, something that the teacher's unions, and other public sector unions lack.

I, personally, like most unions. There is still a need for collective bargaining in the private sector, as well as a need for collective representation to make sure that people aren't being taken advantage of. I don't see the same need where the public sector is involved. If you boil it down to it's basic premise, a union's purpose is to protect the individual from the predatory practice of the corporations and other business owners. The people that form the same entity for public sector unions is the people themselves. So, it's a union that is designed to protect people from themselves? It doesn't make any sense.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by ohioriver
I think people are starting to realize that the public unions and private unions are two separate beasts. When the public union employees are bargaining for more more more, who do you think pays for it? THE TAXPAYER.

When Billionaires that INHERITED their vast riches get HUGE tax breaks, who pays for that?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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This is such a contentious issue for me because it really does pin the workers against the corporate elite with little to no room left open for other opinions. Even Franklin D. Roosevelt said that public sector unions were insanity and a serious conflict of interest, which I agree with, and they are doing significant damage to the American tax payers, yet not to the length of the corporations.

What annoys me the most about this is that while yes at least some common sense is beginning to prevail by ending public sector collective bargaining it is only ended for the teachers specifically and not for police, fire, etc… That obviously shows this governor is not truly sincere about his opinion on public sector unions, this is not a philosophical busting of unions, this is one led by special interests.

I support the union workers, private sector that is, so please do not confuse me for the “bust those union!” types of people. Eisenhower and Coolidge are the greatest Presidents IMO and neither of them led any crusades against unions and they tried to find the best ways to work with them but not at the expense of the tax payers.

There is a pragmatic approach which can be taken with this issue but unfortunately we have not seen it prevail. Let us thank Governor Taft, err I mean Walker, for dividing the people even more.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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A public sector union exists at the pleasure of the taxpayer and just as easily the taxpayer can change the rules as it pays the bills and can call the tune and there's nothing wrong with that. The piper plays what the payer says or he can crawl off and pipe for his fat lazy self important kiester as he pleases. But if he play his own tune and shoot all his moon, and plays the goon some playa might bussa cap in it, for reals,
edit on 10-3-2011 by FriedrichNeecher because: for the children



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


ohioriver You say no one is busting up private sector unions. THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. The public unions are all that is left of a once strong work force which had the strength to stand up to big business. In the last forty years the corporate propaganda has done a job on the working class. Pushing and pushing how we are all better off individually. You are being held back by unions etc etc. This is a load. Were it not for unions the corporate state would have been in place years ago and we would not even be having this conversation now.

Here is a book for everyone. " SHOCK DOCTRINE, the Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klien. Published about three years ago. I post this here not to convert anyone or to win any debate. Just to say that here is a comprehensive study of what is really happening in global economics and politics for the last thirty years. And it is happening in Wisconsin and around the states.

What is happening now is not about budgets. It is about THE TAKEOVER by the ruling elites. At ATS they are called TPTB. Remember them?

They're Hearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and they are coming after the unions first and then you the next day.

And once again I would like to remind everyone that in 1933 Hitler abolished the unions. They stood in his way.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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I hope this comment is not off topic but for me I sense a major shift in the political malestrom. I mean this last November there was massive support for republicans and maybe their ideals. But now it seems that democrat support is growing and maybe support for Barack Obama is growing because his poll numbers are better. And with this Wisconsin thing It makes it look like Republicans are against workers, and this would be bad looking at the economic climate were are in and how jobs at the forefront of the issue. I mean to me it seems like democrats are picking up momentum.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by soontide
You mentioned Nurse's and EMT's Unions in your post. Those, to my knowledge, aren't "public sector" unions. There is a very good reason that the Police and Fire Unions aren't being broken up. They have specific rules in those unions that limit their collective bargaining, something that the teacher's unions, and other public sector unions lack.

I, personally, like most unions. There is still a need for collective bargaining in the private sector, as well as a need for collective representation to make sure that people aren't being taken advantage of. I don't see the same need where the public sector is involved. If you boil it down to it's basic premise, a union's purpose is to protect the individual from the predatory practice of the corporations and other business owners. The people that form the same entity for public sector unions is the people themselves. So, it's a union that is designed to protect people from themselves? It doesn't make any sense.


It makes sense when you realize that these are not actually "public employees." You did not vote for them, nor did you hire them. You are not their bosses, you do not cut their checks. They are private citizens, workers, just like you are. It just happens that their employer is the DMV or the school district, rather than McDonalds or Foot Locker. In most cases, you had no say in who their boss was, and neither did they.

If you don't think these peoples' employers will jump at the chance to exploit them - just like every other boss in the history of forever - then you've got a very idealistic view of the world. Teachers have a union, and it's one of the strongest out there - and they're still worked to the bone for paltry pay, doing jobs they were not hired to do, and always end up with the blame when students don't come out with amazing grades.

The goal of a union is to protect the workers from exploitation by bosses. Not necessarily owners; you don't think that the regional manager owns the plant, right? 'Course not.

The police and dire departments aren't having their rights stripped for the very obvious reasons already pointed out - the people stripping the rights need someone to bust heads (the cops) and busting the firefighters is about the best way to lose an election there is, next to raping a puppy on live TV.

But i'll bet once things have settled down, after the teachers are even more destitute, after the rest of hte public jobs have more in common with a summer gig at starbucks than an actual career, the firefighters will be next.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by ohioriver
 


ohioriver You say no one is busting up private sector unions. THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. The public unions are all that is left of a once strong work force which had the strength to stand up to big business. In the last forty years the corporate propaganda has done a job on the working class. Pushing and pushing how we are all better off individually. You are being held back by unions etc etc. This is a load. Were it not for unions the corporate state would have been in place years ago and we would not even be having this conversation now.

Here is a book for everyone. " SHOCK DOCTRINE, the Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klien. Published about three years ago. I post this here not to convert anyone or to win any debate. Just to say that here is a comprehensive study of what is really happening in global economics and politics for the last thirty years. And it is happening in Wisconsin and around the states.

What is happening now is not about budgets. It is about THE TAKEOVER by the ruling elites. At ATS they are called TPTB. Remember them?

They're Hearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and they are coming after the unions first and then you the next day.

And once again I would like to remind everyone that in 1933 Hitler abolished the unions. They stood in his way.


Thank you for the book info,,,I will definitely check it out. We need to realize that this current GOP union-busting effort directly relates to "business concerns" outside of US borders. It's part of the pervasive effort to re-distribute personal wealth to the "privileged" few.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Teachers have a union, and it's one of the strongest out there - and they're still worked to the bone for paltry pay, doing jobs they were not hired to do, and always end up with the blame when students don't come out with amazing grades.


It amazes me how our short term memories allow the types of rationalizations that would argue with you that teachers have it made. Over the last decade, Republican bills have steadily stripped all kinds of funding from schools. Money for equipment, tools, facilities, etc. all slowly being chipped away. The results are huge classes with children sharing outdated books. Why would they do things like that?

Well when I see people argue that teachers who make about $50,000 a year are overpaid for doing crappy jobs, it all makes sense.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by QueSeraSera
 


QueSeraSera. No doubt at all. And about the book? For me this one pulls together so many tinges I have questioned about the last three decades. It was as enlightening as Zinn's "Peoples History of the United States." and that is a tall order.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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The unique situations with Teacher's unions is that they actually do have a say in who their boss is and, in many cases, their boss is also in the union. I know in my school district, I still have the ability to elect the members of the school board, who appoint the superintendent. The teachers in my district have the same right. They also have the right to elect their union reps as well. So, they get to elect the people who appoint their boss and they get to elect their union representative. So, when a teacher's union goes in for collective bargaining, whom are they bargaining with? The people that they elected to be their bosses?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Elections have consequences..... where have I heard that before?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by v1rtu0s0
 


Public sector unions should not be allowed collective bargaining rights. Even Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to warn us on the disaster this would cause. The basic problem is with private sector unions the union has to be careful not to kill the business. In other words if they make the product or service there selling to expensive people will go else where and there out of a job.But in public unions there is no such restrictions since this is simply money paid in taxes.It also leads to problems on whos going to protect the tax payer in this negotiation. When a public union goes into collective bargaining there dealing with a politician they helped get elected. So how likely is that politician to tell them no?????


Here is a video on FDR enjoy.




posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by ohioriver
 


ohioriver You say no one is busting up private sector unions. THIS IS ONLY BECAUSE THE CORPORATIONS HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. The public unions are all that is left of a once strong work force which had the strength to stand up to big business. In the last forty years the corporate propaganda has done a job on the working class. Pushing and pushing how we are all better off individually. You are being held back by unions etc etc. This is a load. Were it not for unions the corporate state would have been in place years ago and we would not even be having this conversation now.

Here is a book for everyone. " SHOCK DOCTRINE, the Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klien. Published about three years ago. I post this here not to convert anyone or to win any debate. Just to say that here is a comprehensive study of what is really happening in global economics and politics for the last thirty years. And it is happening in Wisconsin and around the states.

What is happening now is not about budgets. It is about THE TAKEOVER by the ruling elites. At ATS they are called TPTB. Remember them?

They're Hearrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and they are coming after the unions first and then you the next day.

And once again I would like to remind everyone that in 1933 Hitler abolished the unions. They stood in his way.



What is the purpose of a union? It is to protect workers. Which means their working environment. Unions are supposed to protect workers from dangerous working conditions. Like being exposed to dangerous chemicals or unsafe working environments or not getting paid for all the hours they have worked. It is not the unions place to try and get politicians elected that would be sympathetic to whatever they want. Doesn't that in fact, make unions nowadays part of that ruling elite? The unions have become just as corrupt as the politicians.



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Misoir


I support the union workers, private sector that is, so please do not confuse me for the “bust those union!” types of people. Eisenhower and Coolidge are the greatest Presidents IMO and neither of them led any crusades against unions and they tried to find the best ways to work with them but not at the expense of the tax payers.

There is a pragmatic approach which can be taken with this issue but unfortunately we have not seen it prevail. Let us thank Governor Taft, err I mean Walker, for dividing the people even more.


I'm glad you have tempered your approach with some reason and compassion. And not referring to people that are members, stewards and leaders of unions as "Thugs"

The political ramifications from this usurping of the workers rights will not bode well for the GOP; not just in the union busting states but nationally.
And never forget that members of unions both public sector and private are AMERICAN TAXPAYERS too and adversity will make us stronger in the long run. I find it appalling that so many have turned on their fellow citizens and want to curtail their freedoms, because they have made a free choice to gather together and work in their own best interest. It shows the power of corporate propaganda and their mouthpieces like the conservative talkshow hosts that are themselves members of AFTRA/SAG just like me. What hypocrites!! Decrying the power of unions when they themselves are union members; Beck, Rush, Sean etc.

www.alternet.org... members/

But go ahead and suck up their divisive rhetoric as America disintegrates.
edit on 11-3-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
Here is a video on FDR enjoy.


I am curious what FDR had to say about corporate influence in government. Any videos on that?



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


There is no right to bargain for more of the taxpayers money.

If they are unhappy with what the taxpayers provide them, they are more than free to try their hand in the private sector.



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